Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

Hey we had met in Delhi long back for Tea/Coffee and your wife was also with you. It seems you have completely misunderstood my posts. I did not call Rafale a bad aircraft. what I stated was w.r.t its limited weapons choice and I had also given a solution. Spectra needs to be modified for each weapon which gets integrated to Rafale. this can take lots of time. So to ensure a faster integration, I had suggested that let the stand off weapons be added and after firing them, Rafale should revert to a configuration which is already calibrated for spectra like A2A config or Hammer+Mica config. This will keep Rafale out of harms way till complete air superiority is achieved.
 
Hey we had met in Delhi long back for Tea/Coffee and your wife was also with you. It seems you have completely misunderstood my posts. I did not call Rafale a bad aircraft. what I stated was w.r.t its limited weapons choice and I had also given a solution. Spectra needs to be modified for each weapon which gets integrated to Rafale. this can take lots of time. So to ensure a faster integration, I had suggested that let the stand off weapons be added and after firing them, Rafale should revert to a configuration which is already calibrated for spectra like A2A config or Hammer+Mica config. This will keep Rafale out of harms way till complete air superiority is achieved.
But you did say that Su-30MKI>> Rafale. Rafale as an over hype. You even called it M2K in a new body. You also said that its "Active Stealth" is third rate. You said that it has no SEAD/DEAD ability.

All such claims are absolutely against what the French have been touting about Rafale. No wonder why the French like @Picdelamirand-oil don't like those posts of yours and called it only to please forum readers. As it is, with these revelations you might be the most hated man in France, lol.

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Hey we had met in Delhi long back for Tea/Coffee and your wife was also with you. It seems you have completely misunderstood my posts. I did not call Rafale a bad aircraft. what I stated was w.r.t its limited weapons choice and I had also given a solution. Spectra needs to be modified for each weapon which gets integrated to Rafale. this can take lots of time. So to ensure a faster integration, I had suggested that let the stand off weapons be added and after firing them, Rafale should revert to a configuration which is already calibrated for spectra like A2A config or Hammer+Mica config. This will keep Rafale out of harms way till complete air superiority is achieved.
Don't worry, it's a joke :D
 
Here's a translation :

"
Following the Sindoor operation, India expressed its full satisfaction with the performance of the French equipment used in the fighting (Rafale and SCALP) and, through its AD (Defence Attaché) in France, thanked France for the support expressed since the beginning of the operation. The AD (defence attaché) also expressed "India's strong appreciation for the joint DGA / AAE mission to India in mid-May to exchange information. The Indian partner confirmed that the Rafale system, with its munitions adapted to the most complex missions, performed particularly well during this operation.
"

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
 
Yeah, according to internal sources, after Pahalgam, Indian MEA babus were sent ASAP to ASTE to undergo a fast-track course in flight and weapon training — and they were the ones flying fighters on the night of 6th/7th May.
I had a different source as well, who told me that instead of discussing war plans based on Armed Forces wargames, the four chiefs were busy singing "qawwali" during meetings with PM Modi.
Now coming to the serious topic.

Why haven’t you blamed the Indian babus for the deaths of several civilians across the LoC due to heavy-calibre firing from the Pakistanis? Leave aside the faujis we lost. The insensitive piece of shit you are.

Jyada Rapheel Rapheel karke Pakistanis ka propoganda karna hai na to ghar baith jao, leave the warfighting to fauj.
The Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) has already acknowledged that we have lost aircraft......only question that remains is how they went down......Unnecessary emotional rhetoric will not change the ground reality.........Vishwaguru virtue signalling responsible state measured response policy is not made by Western Command.....they are crafted by bureaucrats and enforced by the political leadership...... We will not cross border sar, Our enemy iz only terrorist sar, We will not hit Pakistani military sar.... We will wait for a Slap & only than respond accordingly.
 

Not only one or two hit in NUR KHAN but much more meaning sead and dead oparations.​

"India’s precision strikes on the base’s hangars, runways, and radar sites disrupted the operations of VIP transport fleets, drones, and surveillance aircraft, degrading 20% of Pakistan’s air force infrastructure, according to top intelligence sources quoted by News18.

The strikes, the sources added, exposed critical gaps in Pakistan’s air defences and highlighted its inability to intercept ballistic missiles targeting high-value sites deep inside the country.

Mobile control centres and support vehicles were destroyed, crippling command operations. Crater impacts were also seen near fortified underground sites likely linked to sensitive or nuclear systems.
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Nur Khan airbase under US control, even army officers kept out, claims Pakistani security expert​

Gul’s statement comes just days after India’s precision strike on the Nur Khan Airbase as part of Operation Sindoor, a retaliatory mission launched in response to the brutal Pahalgam terror attack.​



In a stunning admission, Pakistani security expert Imtiaz Gul has claimed that the Nur Khan Airbase in Rawalpindi – a key military installation – may effectively be under American control.

The revelation, made via a viral social media video, suggests that even senior officers of the Pakistan Army are reportedly not allowed to interfere with operations at the base, which is located in one of the country’s most sensitive military zones.


Gul’s statement comes just days after India’s precision strike on the Nur Khan Airbase as part of Operation Sindoor, a retaliatory mission launched in response to the brutal Pahalgam terror attack.

Pakistani expert Imtiaz Gul claims that American aircraft frequently operate out of the Nur Khan airbase with little transparency about their missions or cargo. He suggested that secretive US-Pakistan agreements may be in place, raising concerns over national sovereignty and military accountability.

Gul’s claim furthers suspicion that Pakistan's military-industrial complex is riddled with external interference, particularly from the United States, which has long used Pakistani soil for covert operations—ranging from drone strikes to surveillance missions—often with little or no transparency.


The Nur Khan airbase at Chaklala in Rawalpindi is located at short distance from the Strategic Plans Division. It oversees Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, and the army’s General Headquarters. The airbase is home to C-130 transport aircraft and surveillance platforms.

India’s precision strikes on the base’s hangars, runways, and radar sites disrupted the operations of VIP transport fleets, drones, and surveillance aircraft, degrading 20% of Pakistan’s air force infrastructure, according to top intelligence sources quoted by News18.

The strikes, the sources added, exposed critical gaps in Pakistan’s air defences and highlighted its inability to intercept ballistic missiles targeting high-value sites deep inside the country.


The Pakistani military is yet to clear debris from the airport due to fear, resource shortages, or focus on other damaged bases, sources said. Satellite images showed a 7,000 sq ft complex demolished near the strike zone, disproving earlier claims of minimal damage. Mobile control centres and support vehicles were destroyed, crippling command operations. Crater impacts were also seen near fortified underground sites likely linked to sensitive or nuclear systems.
 
But you did say that Su-30MKI>> Rafale. Rafale as an over hype. You even called it M2K in a new body. You also said that its "Active Stealth" is third rate. You said that it has no SEAD/DEAD ability.

All such claims are absolutely against what the French have been touting about Rafale. No wonder why the French like @Picdelamirand-oil don't like those posts of yours and called it only to please forum readers. As it is, with these revelations you might be the most hated man in France, lol.

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I still maintain that SU-30MKI is superior to rafale and we should have ordered more Super sukhois than Rafale. In my chats with Late Parriker, I had told him how IAF was fooling the nation. I have been proven correct. I supported Rafale as it was best amonst the aircrat which entered MRFA competition. @randomradio knows that I was completely against acquiring Rafale and wanted IAF to invest more on Super Sukhoi. I even did a range comparison of the so called Rafale with 9.5 tons weapon load. Please remeber weapon load is what I am talking about and not fuel carried in drop tanks. Rafale with 9.5 tons of weapons load and internal fuel cant ever go beyond 300 nautical miles in combat while Su-30MKI can out do rafale by a factor of 2 in range with 8 tons of wepon load. You guys dont know how the range vs load vs capability of a fighter aircraft are judged.
 
I still maintain that SU-30MKI is superior to rafale and we should have ordered more Super sukhois than Rafale. In my chats with Late Parriker, I had told him how IAF was fooling the nation. I have been proven correct. I supported Rafale as it was best amonst the aircrat which entered MRFA competition. @randomradio knows that I was completely against acquiring Rafale and wanted IAF to invest more on Super Sukhoi. I even did a range comparison of the so called Rafale with 9.5 tons weapon load. Please remeber weapon load is what I am talking about and not fuel carried in drop tanks. Rafale with 9.5 tons of weapons load and internal fuel cant ever go beyond 300 nautical miles in combat while Su-30MKI can out do rafale by a factor of 2 in range with 8 tons of wepon load. You guys dont know how the range vs load vs capability of a fighter aircraft are judged.

MKI, TE MII, and SE MII are all a single requirement, and LCA Mk1/A is second. AMCA is the next gen replacement for the first requirement. Unfortunately, due to financial and strategic concerns, we had to split a single requirement into three separate ones. MKI and TE MII for strategic reasons and SE MII for cost considerations; 2 jets with 100% capabilities at high cost vs 1 jet with 80% capabilities at 50% of the high cost.

The MKI vs MMRCA debate is something AM Matheswaran already touched upon.

...we had to keep the Su-30 out because otherwise the Su-30 would have come into the competition, as well. And the question would have been raised, ‘Why can’t you buy more of the Su-30s’. Now you can’t put all your eggs in one basket – strategically, it’s unwise. That’s one of the primary reasons. And therefore you created this Medium Multi role Combat Aircraft (competition) which is 30 tons and below. Okay, so the Su-30 is 34 tons and above – 34 tons category.

We couldn't just buy 400-500 MKIs like the Russians and call it a day when we do not have sufficient control over the tech. Hence a competing export partner in the same category to prevent Russian blackmail. If the MKI was entirely ours, or we at least controlled everything we needed, we would have built 400-500 in two variants and four tranches and called it a day.

Another reason is our procurement system also prevented a significant upgrade of the in-production MKIs due to its imported nature. Changes to the airframe and other primary systems would require a whole new contract with negotiations from scratch.

Instead now we are more likely to build 200-250 AMCAs followed by 200-250 more AMCA NGs, kinda like how we had 400-500 Mig-21s operational at any one time between the mid-1970s and early 2010s alongside a bunch of Indian and foreign strike jets.

Given the above, I don't think the IAF was that concerned by the Rafale's range vs payload argument. Their payload requirements for standard missions were quite modest too, like just 2 to 4 BVRs for counter air missions. When MMRCA was underway, the IAF and DRDO had begun studies for a dedicated strike drone under AURA, so there was that too. No point in range or payload if you can't survive inside the first SAM ring after all.
 
I still maintain that SU-30MKI is superior to rafale and we should have ordered more Super sukhois than Rafale. In my chats with Late Parriker, I had told him how IAF was fooling the nation. I have been proven correct. I supported Rafale as it was best amonst the aircrat which entered MRFA competition. @randomradio knows that I was completely against acquiring Rafale and wanted IAF to invest more on Super Sukhoi. I even did a range comparison of the so called Rafale with 9.5 tons weapon load. Please remeber weapon load is what I am talking about and not fuel carried in drop tanks. Rafale with 9.5 tons of weapons load and internal fuel cant ever go beyond 300 nautical miles in combat while Su-30MKI can out do rafale by a factor of 2 in range with 8 tons of wepon load. You guys dont know how the range vs load vs capability of a fighter aircraft are judged.
Going by Ukraine getting a SU-35 with an old F-16. with Aim-120b/c? and a medium updated radar. Russia may not be your best choice. After all these years, they still don't have air superiority.
 
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Another issue is combat aircrafts no matter which generation are basically useless against an AEWCS equipped with a GaN radar. I feel under the same RoE even the f-35 would have experienced similar issues.
No. F-35 allows you to get away with what 4th gens can't. F-35 not only can it get closer but its EW would also have helped the flight of 4th gen by playing Quarterback with all SA and ISR.
 
Going by Ukraine getting a SU-35 with an old F-16. with Aim-120b/c? and a medium updated radar. Russia may not be your best choice. After all these years, they still don't have air superiority.
Multiple F-16s have been shot down by Su-35s too. Russia is hitting Ukraine where it wants. That's what really matter. Plus Su-35 was designed to kill other jets not kill SAMs. That was the job of Su-34 and it failed because of not having proper targeting pods and PGMs.

Plus, as I have explained to @Hydra multiple times, India fights differently with Russian weapons. Our doctrine and tactics are very different from them. We just brought down a near peer, nuke nation like PAK, on its knees, within few days. We also have our indigenous systems in our jets/tanks/SAMs which enhance their combat effectiveness vis-a-vis their Russian counterparts.
 
Yes, F-35 can penetrate Chinese IADS, just tell it to stay away from Houthi's stone age R-27/R-73 based SAMs, lol.
What about the houthis? They got bombed they said no more hitting commercial shipping and we stopped. I like there's a lot assumption what happened which is nothing but what we do know is Rafale or RafaleS got shot down by pakee flown export J-10's. That says a lot about IAF pilots or the fighter. Choose what you think the issue was/is.
Multiple F-16s have been shot down by Su-35s too. Russia is hitting Ukraine where it wants. That's what really matter. Plus Su-35 was designed to kill other jets not kill SAMs. That was the job of Su-34 and it failed because of not having proper targeting pods and PGMs.

Plus, as I have explained to @Hydra multiple times, India fights differently with Russian weapons. Our doctrine and tactics are very different from them. We just brought down a near peer, nuke nation like PAK, on its knees, within few days. We also have our indigenous systems in our jets/tanks/SAMs which enhance their combat effectiveness vis-a-vis their Russian counterparts.
Got any source to back up your claim that isn't pulled out of your hooha?
 
Going by Ukraine getting a SU-35 with an old F-16. with Aim-120b/c? and a medium updated radar. Russia may not be your best choice. After all these years, they still don't have air superiority.

No. F-35 allows you to get away with what 4th gens can't. F-35 not only can it get closer but its EW would also have helped the flight of 4th gen by playing Quarterback with all SA and ISR.
Updated info is that it was a SAM that took down Su-35 not F-16:


About F-16 losses. Well multiple F-16s have been lost over Ukraine likely shot down by the Russians: Ukraine 'lost contact' with F-16 during combat, pilot ejected, Air Force says.
 
No. F-35 allows you to get away with what 4th gens can't. F-35 not only can it get closer but its EW would also have helped the flight of 4th gen by playing Quarterback with all SA and ISR.
I will believe it if there's some proof of concept of f-35 spoofing or jamming enemy AEWCS.