Air Engagement of Operation Sindoor : Analysis

Picdelamirand-oil said:
With the Rafale as it is, every six months we carry out a ‘Poker’ exercise, which consists of simulating a nuclear raid against targets defended by SAMs and an air force. There is a classic part that involves clearing all threats on the trajectory of the aircraft carrying the nuclear weapon (SAMs, radar, AWACS, fighters, etc.) and the nuclear strike that follows. This is much more challenging than attacking bases near the Indian border. So we don't understand.
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We are only going by what Vstol claimed, that Rafales were "intercepted" in some way that prevented them from carrying out their mission.
Herciv said:
We don't even know if the rafale was lost due to a munition or due to an accident. Without any communication that's hard to know.
We also know that Some bhramos were used but we don't know if no scalp were used. At the ENd of the days Rafale and MKI were used in conjonction quite everry day. This is not a success for just one or the other. Without one or the other Pakistani could perhaps have found better effective solutions. But with so many different tactics and doctrines used together it was to hard.

The good tactic was to use use rafale and MKI together.

What have also been mastered is the high tempo of operations, just better enough so that the Pakistani were not ready in time to go in fly to intercept other incoming flights.
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We are not talking about any air loss, but the potential interception of the Rafale when it operated close to the border. Vstol said MKIs bailed out intercepted Rafales. But of course, we have no idea about what actually happened. We are taking Vstol for his word here.
 
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randomradio said:
We are only going by what Vstol claimed, that Rafales were "intercepted" in some way that prevented them from carrying out their mission.


We are not talking about any air loss, but the potential interception of the Rafale when it operated close to the border. Vstol said MKIs bailed out intercepted Rafales. But of course, we have no idea about what actually happened. We are taking Vstol for his word here.
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Is @vstol Jockey Pakistani? :ROFLMAO:
 
Tatvamasi said:
Informed about things when he was in service. If he knows about current conflict details thats a big issue.
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No, that's how things take place. Most details percolate through people that have served in the armed forces after the conclusion of the Ops. Now how much they can reveal depends upon OPSEC SOPs!
Tatvamasi said:
Retired people are loudmouths looking for relevance. His level of access is limited to his batch-mates. No need to simp over them.
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All retired armed forces folks are loudmouths? Don't measure all of them in the same vein. As it stands, Vstol is awesome. Anyways, it is far better to be a loudmouth than being a sarcastic and pessimistic person. Hope you catch the drift;)
 
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Rajput Lion said:
No, that's how things take place. Most details percolate through people that have served in the armed forces after the conclusion of the Ops. Now how much they can reveal depends upon OPSEC SOPs!
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No it doesn't. Only happens after so many years. Didnt you cry him not to share secrets few posts back?

Rajput Lion said:
All retired armed forces folks are loudmouths? Don't measure all of them in the same vein. As it stands, Vstol is awesome. Anyways, it is far better to be a loudmouth than being a sarcastic and pessimistic person. Hope you catch the drift;)
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Vstol + gangajal gives you whatever you want. He still believes there was no loss of aircraft.

Continue being delusional and stop thinking.
 
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There are only two plausible explanations here........ either the Rafale wasn’t the “magic churan” it was made out to be by fanboys and paid bots over the past six years, or the Rules of Engagement were deliberately crafted by MEA bureaucrats to project Vishwaguru-style moral posturing ....... the kind that insists, “we will only strike terrorists & not the Pakistani military, saar.”

The MEA’s initial press briefing, laced with nari shokti virtue signaling, was a clear giveaway. In all likelihood, it was a combination of both factors.

Unfortunately, Pakistan has done exactly what one would expect in such a scenario ....... capitalized on the indecisiveness and moral grandstanding of Indian decision-makers

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930852548358844685
 
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South block said:
There are only two plausible explanations here........ either the Rafale wasn’t the “magic churan” it was made out to be by fanboys and paid bots over the past six years, or the Rules of Engagement were deliberately crafted by MEA bureaucrats to project Vishwaguru-style moral posturing ....... the kind that insists, “we will only strike terrorists & not the Pakistani military, saar.”

The MEA’s initial press briefing, laced with nari shokti virtue signaling, was a clear giveaway. In all likelihood, it was a combination of both factors.

Unfortunately, Pakistan has done exactly what one would expect in such a scenario ....... capitalized on the indecisiveness and moral grandstanding of Indian decision-makers

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930852548358844685
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Indians main sach main thodi dimag ki kami hai.

Have you ever questioned how it is possible that a single squadron shot down six aircraft, while all other squadrons were just swatting flies and didn’t even get any kill opportunities?


If they’re giving credit to a single squadron, it only means they want to compartmentalize their lies.
 
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randomradio said:
We are only going by what Vstol claimed, that Rafales were "intercepted" in some way that prevented them from carrying out their mission.
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Intercepted by ground based air defence or the airborne radars, and why Su30mkis weren't intercepted or were tough to intercept? If you know that then shortcomings can be rectified. Pakistanis and the Chinese might have gained access to these shortcomings of Rafales from other users or from within IAF. They worked to gain this specific input on Rafales.

In my opinion you have a 4th gen airframe and 4th gen engine, you need to make it lethal for AA combat and also less detectable and this is possible. That's what has to be done with Rafales. This also proves a point that LCA Mk1 are battle ready because all sorts of equipment integration has been done keeping such scenarios in mind. Should be immediately deployed when the engine is there.
 
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Arpit said:
Indians main sach main thodi dimag ki kami hai.

Have you ever questioned how it is possible that a single squadron shot down six aircraft, while all other squadrons were just swatting flies and didn’t even get any kill opportunities?


If they’re giving credit to a single squadron, it only means they want to compartmentalize their lies.
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Pakistani claims are ridiculous but we have lost 3 jet for sure.....The exact circumstances surrounding their downing remain unclear, with rumors ranging from surface-to-air missile (SAM) strikes and MANPADS to even possible incidents of fratricide......Regardless of how they were brought down, the fact remains..... the losses are real...... Indian babu's particularly within the MEA...... miscalculated Pakistani response initially, operating under the flawed assumption that Islamabad would absorb an airstrike without challenging Indian strike formation...... Reports even suggest that prior to operation, Indian officials even issued a warning call to Pakistan, perhaps as a deterrent or diplomatic gesture, informing them of the impending strike and advising them not to respond....... Basically making sure that Pakistani take all necessary precautions.
 
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South block said:
.Regardless of how they were brought down, the fact remains..... the losses are real...... Indian babu's particularly within the MEA...... miscalculated Pakistani response initially, operating under the flawed assumption that Islamabad would absorb an airstrike without challenging Indian strike formation
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MEA is no body to calculate military response, it is in not in their domain. Their sole work is to convey national mandate and it's comprehensive power to the world. If this S Jaishanker is trespassing in that zone he should be reminded about that by Rajnath Singh.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
As per @vstol Jockey Rafale had to go nearest the border because of Hammer's short range and Su-30MKIs had to go and bail them out of trouble. What you're saying now makes plenty of sense. Anyways, IAF and Dassault need to work together to overcome these issues. Rafale, as it exists, is an absolute great platform.
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The rafales only issue is its limited munition options. If the rafales could use the amraams/astra rather than the micas they wouldn't be at this much disadvantage.
Another issue is combat aircrafts no matter which generation are basically useless against an AEWCS equipped with a GaN radar. I feel under the same RoE even the f-35 would have experienced similar issues.
 
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Weren't Rafales bought to penetrate into heavily defended areas or fly close to border regions and avoid detection through active stealth or fool enemy radar. If one has to use very long range SOWs then what's the point of buying Rafales at all. Keep Mig 21s for another 20 years and use them to launch SOWs from safer ranges.
 
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Harpy1 said:
I have burning question guys (my first post)

Why were the paks not able to target and take out single Indian fighter on day 3 when India hit the far more dangerous targets of 11 main air bases The heart of Pak military and presumably well defended

Why Pakistan failed that night
What India did different from. First night fiasco which led 4 missing planes
Where was the much hyped chinease kill chain after all we were in full as alert both sides
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Because on day 2 we had severely degraded their AD. The Harops and Harpys actually destroyed a lot of their AD which hasn't been covered. We only know of a 35mm AA gun destroyed and an hq-9 radar. There's more damage been done that wasn't covered. Third day they weren't prepared for what came. The PAF was never interested in a long attrition warfare. It's objective was to shootdown 2-3 aircrafts at best possibly the rafale. Which could then be sold as a propaganda victory. They knew fully well we were going in with a restricted RoE and will only strike their terror sites and won't engage military targets so they were confident.
On Day 3 there was no such restriction. Our entire mission was to partially degrade Pakistani AD.
 
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Lolwa said:
I don't think the rafales went in a low altitude trajectory like the jaguars did. It was tactical mistake trusting too much on the capabilities of the spectra.
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Perhaps. But we don't know yet.

To hit terrorist camps at 70 km from the border without crossing it, the Hammer has to be fired from med-high altitude. At low level, its range drops down to less than 15 km.
 
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South block said:
Pakistani claims are ridiculous but we have lost 3 jet for sure.....The exact circumstances surrounding their downing remain unclear, with rumors ranging from surface-to-air missile (SAM) strikes and MANPADS to even possible incidents of fratricide......Regardless of how they were brought down, the fact remains..... the losses are real...... Indian babu's particularly within the MEA...... miscalculated Pakistani response initially, operating under the flawed assumption that Islamabad would absorb an airstrike without challenging Indian strike formation...... Reports even suggest that prior to operation, Indian officials even issued a warning call to Pakistan, perhaps as a deterrent or diplomatic gesture, informing them of the impending strike and advising them not to respond....... Basically making sure that Pakistani take all necessary precautions.
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Yeah, according to internal sources, after Pahalgam, Indian MEA babus were sent ASAP to ASTE to undergo a fast-track course in flight and weapon training — and they were the ones flying fighters on the night of 6th/7th May.
I had a different source as well, who told me that instead of discussing war plans based on Armed Forces wargames, the four chiefs were busy singing "qawwali" during meetings with PM Modi.
Now coming to the serious topic.

Why haven’t you blamed the Indian babus for the deaths of several civilians across the LoC due to heavy-calibre firing from the Pakistanis? Leave aside the faujis we lost. The insensitive piece of shit you are.

Jyada Rapheel Rapheel karke Pakistanis ka propoganda karna hai na to ghar baith jao, leave the warfighting to fauj.
 
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