We would have to give the French atleast a 15 billion dollar deal for them to give the source codes and the rest.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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Not sharing source codes doesn't mean we won't be allowed to integrate our weapons. It just means we can't do it by ourselves, will need to pay them for the privilege. That's all.
Astra on Rafale-M probably followed similar route.
From the point of view of stealth and aerodynamics, the three versions of the Rafale are absolutely identical, so there is only one modification to be made for all three versions on SPECTRA and on the FCS.
Yes, for now. When the news broke the first time, people actually assumed France had blanket-banned Indian weapons on Rafale. They didn't know we got into a deal for Astra and SAAW last year.
The IAF wants to integrate weapons on their own, which is fine. But it's not a technical hurdle, it's a business hurdle. So when stuff like "regardless of the number of units ordered" shows up, it just looks stupid.
When MMRCA began, all competitors had to sign a binding declaration that non-OEM weapons integration will be allowed. And all the competitors did. MRFA will follow the same formula.
So any deal will have to be worth their while if sources codes transfers are needed, like MMRCA was with its 6-9 squadron order. This much should be obvious.
People need to be much more attentive when it comes to sifting through the news to separate real stuff from propaganda. If something doesn't make sense, then it's obviously fake.
If IN wants Astra on M, then they will only need to stick it on the jet on the flightline. A weapon on one Rafale is a weapon on all Rafales.
I'm absolutely not a specialist, but there are probably some entries possible in the weapons system open to modification by the user, specially if this user is a close ally, as India is.
So some possibility of change, on the "bark" of the soft, but not on the core of the system so as to prevent a crash of the whole. Possible or not ? I can't answer.
Astra was, for the beginning, on the agenda to be integrated, as SPICE.
The contract for the purchase of 26 Rafale Marine aircraft to equip the Indian Navy has come into force since 7 May 2025.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/w...conference-Resultats-du-1er-semestre-2025.pdf
The IAF's plan to move forward with the 114 MRFA will be accelerated once the final design has been finalised. G2G agreement in sight?
The tender for six in-flight refuelling aircraft will be opened ‘soon’. From memory, this is the third tender they have issued for refuelling aircraft; the other two were cancelled.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-recommendations-for-iaf-101753123518128.html
But everything will move quickly because India wants to reduce the procurement time for armaments from 7-8 years to 2 years.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
“The panel reviewed every element of capability development and suggested measures to boost the IAF’s operational readiness in a time-bound manner. New fighters, refuellers and AEW&C systems are among the top priorities. These platforms are in different stages of the procurement cycle,” said one of persons cited above, asking not to be named.
Defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, who chaired the committee submitted the report classified as “secret” to defence minister Rajnath Singh in March, days after chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal AP Singh admitted that the air force was “very badly off in numbers”, adding that it must induct 40 fighter jets every year to stay combat-ready.
The committee’s members included the vice chief of air staff, secretary (defence production), DRDO chief, and director general acquisition, with the deputy chief of the air staff being its member secretary.
The panel recommended a raft of short and long-term measures to boost the capabilities of the IAF, which is grappling with a shortage of fighter squadrons, pointing out that it was critical to enhance self-reliance in the aerospace sector through increased participation of the private sector to fill critical gaps.
“The committee has recommended a larger role for the private sector. The public sector has its strengths and the first-mover advantage. But the country needs to build a larger defence base to meet the growing needs of the IAF,” said a second person, who also asked not to be named.
After the committee submitted its report, the defence ministry in May unveiled its long-awaited plan to fast-track the development of an indigenous fifth-generation stealth fighter, or the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), announcing that the execution model will be competitive and provide equal opportunities to public and private sector firms to participate in one of the country’s most significant military projects.
The committee’s recommendations are being implemented at a critical moment as the IAF is scouting for 114 multi-role fighter aircraft to be made in India by a foreign original equipment manufacturer and a local partner.The recommendations are in the process of being implemented in the backdrop of Operation Sindoor, India’s strike on terror and military installations in Pakistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir, carried out in response to the Pahalgam terror attack. The Indian Air Force played a central role in the operation.
“The IAF is planning to move the case for the 114 new fighters. The MRFA programme will be accelerated once the execution model is finalised. Also, the follow-on order of 97 LCA Mk-1As will be placed soon,” said the first person. The air force has around 30 fighter squadrons compared to an authorised 42.5.
The defence minister has ordered top officials to ensure timely implementation of the empowered committee’s wide-ranging recommendations.
The techno-commercial bids for six more mid-air refuellers are expected to be opened shortly, the second official said, adding that European, Russian and Israeli defence contractors are vying for the order. The IAF operates a fleet of six Russian-origin Ilyushin-78 tankers that are plagued by maintenance problems and the force urgently needs at least six more refuellers.
In February, the defence acquisition council approved several key proposals worth ₹84,560 crore to strengthen the military’s operational readiness, including the purchase of more mid-air refuellers.
The refueller procurement, which comes in the backdrop of previous failed attempts to buy new tankers, is being pursued at a time when a high-powered defence ministry committee --- steering a comprehensive review of India’s arms-buying rules --- is looking at shortening actual acquisition timelines from the current seven-eight years to under two years for speedy modernisation of the armed forces.
The panel, headed by director general (acquisition), has identified three key areas that account for delays in the procurement of critical weapons and systems, including preparation of the request for proposal (RFP), field evaluation trials and contract negotiations.
Also, the Cabinet Committee on Security, chaired by Prime Narendra Modi, is expected to clear the construction of six AEW&C systems based on the Airbus 321 platform, as reported by HT on July 19.
Air Chief Marshal AP Singh has publicly flagged concerns about a worrying erosion of capabilities and called for urgent measures to address it.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/w...conference-Resultats-du-1er-semestre-2025.pdf
The IAF's plan to move forward with the 114 MRFA will be accelerated once the final design has been finalised. G2G agreement in sight?
The tender for six in-flight refuelling aircraft will be opened ‘soon’. From memory, this is the third tender they have issued for refuelling aircraft; the other two were cancelled.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-recommendations-for-iaf-101753123518128.html
But everything will move quickly because India wants to reduce the procurement time for armaments from 7-8 years to 2 years.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Faster induction of fighters, refuellers in top panel’s recommendations for IAF
Quicker induction of fighter jets, mid-air refuellers and airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) systems tops the recommendations made by an empowered committee for capability enhancement of the Indian Air Force, people aware of the matter said on Monday, adding that the government is in the final stages of awarding a ₹67,000-crore contract to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for 97 more light combat aircraft Mk-1As.“The panel reviewed every element of capability development and suggested measures to boost the IAF’s operational readiness in a time-bound manner. New fighters, refuellers and AEW&C systems are among the top priorities. These platforms are in different stages of the procurement cycle,” said one of persons cited above, asking not to be named.
Defence secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, who chaired the committee submitted the report classified as “secret” to defence minister Rajnath Singh in March, days after chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal AP Singh admitted that the air force was “very badly off in numbers”, adding that it must induct 40 fighter jets every year to stay combat-ready.
The committee’s members included the vice chief of air staff, secretary (defence production), DRDO chief, and director general acquisition, with the deputy chief of the air staff being its member secretary.
The panel recommended a raft of short and long-term measures to boost the capabilities of the IAF, which is grappling with a shortage of fighter squadrons, pointing out that it was critical to enhance self-reliance in the aerospace sector through increased participation of the private sector to fill critical gaps.
“The committee has recommended a larger role for the private sector. The public sector has its strengths and the first-mover advantage. But the country needs to build a larger defence base to meet the growing needs of the IAF,” said a second person, who also asked not to be named.
After the committee submitted its report, the defence ministry in May unveiled its long-awaited plan to fast-track the development of an indigenous fifth-generation stealth fighter, or the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), announcing that the execution model will be competitive and provide equal opportunities to public and private sector firms to participate in one of the country’s most significant military projects.
The committee’s recommendations are being implemented at a critical moment as the IAF is scouting for 114 multi-role fighter aircraft to be made in India by a foreign original equipment manufacturer and a local partner.The recommendations are in the process of being implemented in the backdrop of Operation Sindoor, India’s strike on terror and military installations in Pakistan and Pakistan occupied Kashmir, carried out in response to the Pahalgam terror attack. The Indian Air Force played a central role in the operation.
“The IAF is planning to move the case for the 114 new fighters. The MRFA programme will be accelerated once the execution model is finalised. Also, the follow-on order of 97 LCA Mk-1As will be placed soon,” said the first person. The air force has around 30 fighter squadrons compared to an authorised 42.5.
The defence minister has ordered top officials to ensure timely implementation of the empowered committee’s wide-ranging recommendations.
The techno-commercial bids for six more mid-air refuellers are expected to be opened shortly, the second official said, adding that European, Russian and Israeli defence contractors are vying for the order. The IAF operates a fleet of six Russian-origin Ilyushin-78 tankers that are plagued by maintenance problems and the force urgently needs at least six more refuellers.
In February, the defence acquisition council approved several key proposals worth ₹84,560 crore to strengthen the military’s operational readiness, including the purchase of more mid-air refuellers.
The refueller procurement, which comes in the backdrop of previous failed attempts to buy new tankers, is being pursued at a time when a high-powered defence ministry committee --- steering a comprehensive review of India’s arms-buying rules --- is looking at shortening actual acquisition timelines from the current seven-eight years to under two years for speedy modernisation of the armed forces.
The panel, headed by director general (acquisition), has identified three key areas that account for delays in the procurement of critical weapons and systems, including preparation of the request for proposal (RFP), field evaluation trials and contract negotiations.
Also, the Cabinet Committee on Security, chaired by Prime Narendra Modi, is expected to clear the construction of six AEW&C systems based on the Airbus 321 platform, as reported by HT on July 19.
Air Chief Marshal AP Singh has publicly flagged concerns about a worrying erosion of capabilities and called for urgent measures to address it.
After Operation Sindoor, IAF seeks more Rafales
IAF has strongly pitched for a government-to-government deal with France to procure more Rafale fighters under its long-pending project to acquire 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA), in which the bulk of the jets are supposed to be manufactured domestically with foreign collaboration.
The IAF argument is it would make "much better economic and logistical sense" to go in for more Rafales through a government-to-government deal in the MRFA project. "The deal can be concluded faster than going in for an open global tender,"
Read more at:
After Operation Sindoor, IAF seeks more Rafales to stem depletion of fighter squadrons | India News - Times of India
IAF has strongly pitched for a government-to-government deal with France to procure more Rafale fighters under its long-pending project to acquire 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA), in which the bulk of the jets are supposed to be manufactured domestically with foreign collaboration.
The IAF argument is it would make "much better economic and logistical sense" to go in for more Rafales through a government-to-government deal in the MRFA project. "The deal can be concluded faster than going in for an open global tender,"
Read more at:
After Operation Sindoor, IAF seeks more Rafales to stem depletion of fighter squadrons | India News - Times of India
As time goes by, the order for batch 2 for the Indian Air Force is getting closer. One day it will finally happen...
And the stars seem to be aligned at the moment:
And the stars seem to be aligned at the moment:
- The order for the Indian Navy was signed fairly quickly after the Rafale was selected.
- Sindoor demonstrated that the Rafale could strike hard at Pakistani installations and that the Su-30s did not seem to have performed well in A2A.
- The IAF is in a hurry.
- The infrastructure is ready.
- Training can be provided locally.
- Everything is ready to build a local assembly line.
- The F5 standard is on track with an incredible list of goodies (TREX, REBE-2 XG, OSF SK, POD TR, Pod ESJ, RJ-10 missiles, TP-15, AASM XLR, Smart cruiser, UCAS management, etc.).
Woah...where did this information come from Monsieur? I have been hearing that it performed as expected and the IAF was satisfied with its performance.
A typical French assertion. No need to take seriously.
MKI performed exceedingly well in both OCA & DCA along with strike roles. @vstol Jockey has already spilled the beams which you know and have read yourself.
Su57 is literally the best designed fighter jet on the planet if people actually knew the marvelous research and technology put behind it. Not to mention its american propaganda to overrate their weapons and downplay rival nations weapons. This propaganda is then echoed in american defence circles which spreads to other circles, like there are many forums where you are literally banned if you oppose or debunk them.
Americans actually downplay their own weapons sometimes to get funding for futuristic projects.
Yes that's why the Russians have complete air superiority over Ukraine after 3 years and are using all using them on the frontline.
Dude , Russia is running a 3rd class operation in Ukriane where it's AF is not able to fly anywhere far from the borders , and has even had Su35 shot down from missiles fired by freaking drones .
Let's stop with the Russian hype
Nothing of whatever you said refutes whatever I've said. American jets are overhyped and they spread propoganda to downplay their adversaries, they have been downplaying china for so long and now china is the biggest threat for US, if you actually did the research behind both jets, you would find out that the f22 is an outdated legacy jet with a mere 180-190 jets after its production was stopped, the f35 is an overpriced piece of shit. There is stealth and there is retard stealth, america goes for the latter, there is a reason American jets are so expensive to operate and have less operational readiness, Russians who invented the stealth doctorine which Americans hurried to copy are pragmatic, they actually see the cost to benefit ratio and deems it not worth the cost. American jets are meant against 3rd world countries with 3rd and 4th generation jets while the su57 is meant against american 5th gen jets, it's literally designed to hunt down America's most expensive jets. You should actually study the engineering behind the jet, I'm sure 95% here haven't remotely did a deep dive into it but let me tell you, some of the solutions they did to solve problems only aircraft designers know of is pure genius, that's why even 6th gen platforms are copying them. It's currently the most well built fighter jet on the world right now which can be made to 6th gen in the near future depending on how it is defined. It's sad that many Indians parrot the same nonsense said by American fanboys to spread their propaganda which is picked up by the rest but it's not surprising such most Indians aren't well known for great research about such topics in the first place.