AUKUS : US, UK and Australia forge military alliance to counter China

I'd imagine that a semi-angular design (with only certain segments being angular, like the bow on Astute) may be preferred.

A completely angular shell may not be worth the trade-off for an SSN due to negative effects on hydrodynamics. It works for a diesel boat like the 212CD as they'd spend most of their time being ambush predators along island chains or chokepoints than being hunter-killers in the deep sea. In these somewhat more littoral environments, you'd expect to face a lot more active sonar so the hydrodynamic tradeoff for an angular hull may be worth it.

An SSN faces active sonar much less frequently.
With china's large UUV developments

Active sonar usage in deep oceans will see exponential increase in future, their underwater great wall while is heavily relaint on passive sensors and will still be in future, but with significant increase in active elements.
 
I'd imagine that a semi-angular design (with only certain segments being angular, like the bow on Astute) may be preferred.

A completely angular shell may not be worth the trade-off for an SSN due to negative effects on hydrodynamics. It works for a diesel boat like the 212CD as they'd spend most of their time being ambush predators along island chains or chokepoints than being hunter-killers in the deep sea. In these somewhat more littoral environments, you'd expect to face a lot more active sonar so the hydrodynamic tradeoff for an angular hull may be worth it.

An SSN faces active sonar much less frequently.
We are going to have to wait to see what it is, the new US sub and others will also be worth looking at, to see where the tech is going
It's not just sub vs sub, Your P-8 would have new systems, where they drop active and passive receiving sensored buoys, Setting up a networked area, There are also seabed and unmanned subs, providing sensors in the system
 

The UK, US and Australia have declared AUKUS “full steam ahead” after Washington completed its internal review, with all three governments shifting from planning to delivery of submarines and advanced technologies, the Ministry of Defence stated.​

 
  • Like
Reactions: Subgradewalker
I guess this is as close to an apology as we'll get from this incredibly dumb b'stard.

View attachment 49258
Paddy's just discovered what the rest of the world knew since long. That little britain is just another vassal state.

All this while the great trans Atlantic compact was sold as a partnership where little britain was portrayed as being an equal of the US. What's more none of the citizens of little britain could discern they were essentially being arm twisted into backing the US in every possible misadventure post Cold War or even before it.

That Bush arm twisted Tony "the tooth" Blair into joining forces to invade Iraq in 2003 without a UN mandate or before that in Afghanistan . Or Obummer got little britain on board to take out Gaddafi or bomb Syria & flood Europe including little britain with refugees in the bargain while being insulated from the fall out thanks to geography.

That everything was done with a smile in front of cameras convinced little britain it was a partnership of equals. If I blame this on the Paddyfication of little britain, Paddy here gets extremely pissed off.

Yet it took a Trump to knock sense in little britain & bring home the truth. That vassals like servants have no autonomy. They either do the job they're ordered to or they get kicked. Sometimes they get kicked in spite of doing what they were asked to. Paddys knew all about it during their 8 centuries of slavery.

So does little britain now . That they were ignorant of their condition was courtesy the same Paddys spreading across the world & sowing their wild oats. That's how you got the Paddyfication of the West. Paddys certainly weren't joking when they uttered the immortal words - Tiocfaidh ar la .

This is Paddy revenge on little britain, that's what it is . Alhamdulillah!
 
05.02.26_theguardian

US congressional report explores option of not delivering any Aukus nuclear submarines to Australia​

Report offers alternative of the US navy retaining boats and operating them out of Australian bases


A new United States congressional report openly contemplates not selling any nuclear submarines to Australia – as promised under the Aukus agreement – because America wants to retain control of the submarines for a potential conflict with China over Taiwan.

The report by the US Congressional Research Service, Congress’s policy research arm, posits an alternative “military division of labour” under which the submarines earmarked for sale to Australia are instead retained under US command to be sailed out of Australian bases.

One of the arguments made against the US selling submarines to Australia is that Australia has refused to commit to supporting America in a conflict with China over Taiwan. Boats under US command could be deployed into that conflict.

The report, released on 26 January, cites statements from the Australian defence minister, Richard Marles, and the chief of navy that Australia would make “no promises … that Australia would support the United States” in the event of war with China over Taiwan.

“Selling three to five Virginia-class SSNs [nuclear-powered general-purpose attack submarines] to Australia would thus convert those SSNs from boats that would be available for use in a US-China crisis or conflict into boats that might not be available for use in a US-China crisis or conflict,” the report argues.

“This could weaken rather than strengthen deterrence and warfighting capability in connection with a US-China crisis or conflict.”

Under the existing Aukus “optimal pathway’, Australia will first buy between three and five Virginia-class nuclear-powered conventionally armed submarines, the first in 2032.

Following that, the first of eight Australian-built Aukus submarines, based on a UK design, is slated to be in the water “in the early 2040s”.

But the Congressional Research report describes an alternative “military division of labour”, under which the US would not sell any Virginia-class submarines to Australia.

The boats not sold to Australia “would instead be retained in US Navy service and operated out of Australia” alongside US and UK attack submarines already planned to rotate through Australian bases.

The report speculated Australia could use the money saved to invest on other defence capabilities, even using those capabilities as a subordinate force in support of US missions.

“Australia, instead of using funds to purchase, build, operate, and maintain its own SSNs, would instead invest those funds in other military capabilities – such as … long-range anti-ship missiles, drones, loitering munitions, B-21 long-range bombers … or systems for defending Australia against attack … so as to create an Australian capacity for performing other missions, including non-SSN military missions for both Australia and the United States.”

The report also raises cybersecurity concerns, noting that “hackers linked to China” are “highly active” in attempting to penetrate Australian government and contractors’ computers.

It argues that sharing nuclear submarine technology with another country “would increase the attack surface, meaning the number of potential digital and physical entry points that China, Russia, or some other country could attempt to penetrate to gain access to that technology”.

The debate over whether the US should sell boats to Australia is also grounded in ongoing concern over low rates of shipbuilding in the US: the country’s shipyards are failing to build enough submarines to supply America’s own navy, let alone build boats for Australia.

For the past 15 years, the US Navy has ordered boats at a rate of two a year, but its shipyards have never met that build rate “and since 2022 has been limited to about 1.1 to 1.2 boats per year, resulting in a growing backlog of boats procured but not yet built”.

The US fleet currently has only three-quarters of the submarines it needs (49 boats of a force-level goal of 66). Shipyards need to build Virginia-class submarines at a rate of two a year to meet America’s own needs, and to lift that to 2.33 boats a year in order to be able to supply submarines to Australia.

Legislation passed by the US Congress prohibits the sale of any submarine to Australia if the US needs it for its own fleet. The US commander-in-chief – the president of the day – must certify that America relinquishing a submarine “will not degrade the United States undersea capabilities”.

The report argues that Australia’s strict nuclear non-proliferation laws could also weaken US submarine force projection under the current Aukus plan.

Australian officials have consistently told US counterparts that, in adherence to Australia’s commitments as a non-nuclear weapon state under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, Australia’s attack submarines can only ever be armed with conventional weapons.

“Selling three to five Virginia-class SSNs to Australia would thus convert those SSNs from boats that could in the future be armed with the US nuclear-armed sea-launched cruise missile with an aim of enhancing deterrence,” the report states.

The report – authored by Ronald O’Rourke, an analyst for naval affairs in the Congressional Research Service for more than four decades – also makes the case for retaining the current Aukus arrangement.

It argues that selling Virginia-class boats would send “a strong signal to China of the collective determination of the United States and Australia, along with the UK, to counter China’s military modernisation effort”.

“The fact that the United States has never before sold a complete SSN to another country – not even the UK – would underscore the depth of this determination, and thus the strength of the deterrent signal it would send.”

It was also argued that selling nuclear-powered submarines would accelerate the establishment of an Australian submarine fleet “and thereby present China much sooner with a second allied decision-making centre – along with the United States – for attack submarine operations in the Indo-Pacific.

“This would enhance deterrence of potential Chinese aggression in the Indo-Pacific by complicating Chinese military planning.”

The report says selling Virginia-class boats to Australia would be comparable to assistance the US gave to the UK and France in the 20th century in establishing their nuclear submarine fleets and nuclear weapon arsenals.

Previous Congressional Research Service reports have flagged the possibility of no submarines being available to sell to Australia, but Australia has previously rejected contemplation of any “division of labour” in lieu of acquiring submarines.

The Guardian has approached Australia’s defence minister, Richard Marles, for comment. /END

 
Last edited:

If HT is reporting on the AUKUS you can bet it's not good news at all. Looks like the Anglo American duo have suckered the Aussies into another con once again.

Yo Pops , Oz is then a gift which never stops giving ! @Optimist

So far Australia has paid only 1.5 billion USD

But it is Non Refundable as per Google search

Maybe Australia will get some other items such as planes or missiles

The Main Obstacle is the Australian Unwillingness to enter into a Treaty with US
Against China For participating in a future Conflict in Asia Pacific

Then the Question naturally arises that what will Australia do with these Submarines if it doesn't want to fight China
 
You guys do like your clickbait, I guess no one actually looked at the 90 page not classified, open source document, This what if, takes about half a page
It goes on to say, The US forward deploys about 8 subs to Australia, it would save Australia a bucket of money and we just go with SSN-AUKUS, It's not going to happen, the US wants us to buy the 3 subs


If you did open the link, you could also read, how they are investing to increase the production rate

"In June 2025, it was reported that DOD had initiated a review of AUKUS Pillar 1, and that President Trump supported AUKUS, notwithstanding the initiation of the review. In early December 2025, following the completion of the study, Trump Administration officials publicly affirmed the Administration's support for AUKUS, including Pillar 1. Further details of the review were not publicly disclosed. "
 
Last edited:
It's funny because you guys are saying we are not sovereign, yet this is exactly the argument this clickbait article is based on, Because we are in control and own the subs, we say what we do with them and aren't giving a guarantee to follow the US
 
You guys do like your clickbait, I guess no one actually looked at the 90 page not classified, open source document, This what if, takes about half a page
It goes on to say, The US forward deploys about 8 subs to Australia, it would save Australia a bucket of money and we just go with SSN-AUKUS, It's not going to happen, the US wants us to buy the 3 subs


If you did open the link, you could also read, how they are investing to increase the production rate

"In June 2025, it was reported that DOD had initiated a review of AUKUS Pillar 1, and that President Trump supported AUKUS, notwithstanding the initiation of the review. In early December 2025, following the completion of the study, Trump Administration officials publicly affirmed the Administration's support for AUKUS, including Pillar 1. Further details of the review were not publicly disclosed. "
Legislation passed by the US Congress prohibits the sale of any submarine to Australia if the US needs it for its own fleet. The US commander-in-chief – the president of the day – must certify that America relinquishing a submarine “will not degrade the United States undersea capabilities”.

Which word do you not understand?
 
Perhaps you don't understand how DoD talks to congress to secure money
The want money to increase production

I understand all of them, all of the 90 pages and numerous statements
Like on all FMS sales, Every plan has a clause
"There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region."
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Bon Plan
Perhaps you don't understand how DoD talks to congress to secure money
The want money to increase production

I understand all of them, all of the 90 pages and numerous statements
Like on all FMS sales, Every plan has a clause
"There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region."
Yo Pops ! little britain your mother country lacks the wherewithal to sustain it's existing SSNs & SSBNs be it financially , in terms of manpower or anything else . Why do you think they engineered AUKUS in cahoots with the US ?

It was to get you to finance their future N sub fleets by selling you over priced tech which the Americans wouldn't permit till they got a share of the loot .

Since little britain can't lift a finger without consulting the Americans they were roped in . It now transpires the USN is in much deeper waters than previously thought.

All that export of factories wholesale to China on the pretext of mfg value being unlocked has left them with barely enough to build their own future N submarine fleet & sustain existing ones.

Add to that unions , governmental control thru legislations etc & the US has now realised all those capacities & capabilities they gradually dismantled since the end of the Cold War neglecting to rebuild once the Chinese threat became clear is now coming back to bite them in the rear for resurrecting those capacities & capabilities will happen over time which is a luxury they can't afford as of now .

Plus it requires a lot of money which the US is finally running out of which is one of the principal reasons they agreed to AUKUS . However they're only now realising they can't deliver .

Hence all that sweet talk in the form of reports etc is to keep the Aussies in good humour which doesn't show up Albanese as a sucker . How are they going to accomodate your needs when they're barely sustaining their own fleet ?

Hell you're an old pal so wth ?! I'd let you on to a little secret . When the US squares up against China which isn't a question of if , all your dreams of sailing the Indo Pacific like the new Sheriff in town will come crashing down.

It's like this Pops - if the US loses that's the end of the story . However if the US wins it's going to be a Pyrrhic victory & their economy will finally tank thanks to the world moving away from the USD , it's own unmanageable debts et al.

A good sign of this is do you see Paddy @BMD crowing about AUKUS anymore ? You don't , do you ?! And if someone as miserably dull as Paddy has finally seen the writing on the wall , when will you ?
 
This is why the US wants us to run the Virginia, They want to use our facilities and a trained civil and military workforce

The U.S. Navy’s New Insurance Policy for War With China Is an Australian Base​

Pentagon plans to deploy submarines to an expanding facility in allies’ strategy to deter Beijing​


The Australian facilities “should be more than Guam, since it will have a permanent maintenance facility ashore with a dry dock,” said Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a former submariner. “In theory, the Navy could implement an overhaul work package in Australia and reduce the work needed when the sub returns home.”
Because Australia doesn’t allow foreign bases on its soil, officials publicly characterize the coming U.S. deployments as rotational—but the preparations suggest U.S. submarines could be at Stirling for a while. Australian officials expect some 1,200 personnel to move to the area from the U.S. and the U.K., which also plans to operate a submarine from Stirling.

Doing submarine maintenance in Western Australia also gives the U.S. another option for repairs—in a spot that is relatively close to regional flashpoints, chiefly the South China Sea and Taiwan, the self-governing island that Beijing claims as its own territory, to be seized by force if necessary. A lot of maintenance is currently performed in Guam, Pearl Harbor or the U.S. mainland, defense analysts said, and U.S. shipyards are struggling to keep up.
“If you were in some kind of conflict, and your ships are getting damaged, you’re going to want to return to the fight quickly,” said Rear Adm. Lincoln Reifsteck, who commands an American submarine group, during a recent visit to the base. “So having this geography to enhance what you have in Guam, to enhance what you have in Pearl Harbor…it’s going to make the U.S. Navy able to get back to it faster.”

1770627546919.png
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Amarante
Perhaps you don't understand how DoD talks to congress to secure money
The want money to increase production

I understand all of them, all of the 90 pages and numerous statements
Like on all FMS sales, Every plan has a clause
"There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region."
pretty bad faith ! congrats.
 
This is why the US wants us to run the Virginia, They want to use our facilities and a trained civil and military workforce

The U.S. Navy’s New Insurance Policy for War With China Is an Australian Base​

Pentagon plans to deploy submarines to an expanding facility in allies’ strategy to deter Beijing​


The Australian facilities “should be more than Guam, since it will have a permanent maintenance facility ashore with a dry dock,” said Bryan Clark, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and a former submariner. “In theory, the Navy could implement an overhaul work package in Australia and reduce the work needed when the sub returns home.”
Because Australia doesn’t allow foreign bases on its soil, officials publicly characterize the coming U.S. deployments as rotational—but the preparations suggest U.S. submarines could be at Stirling for a while. Australian officials expect some 1,200 personnel to move to the area from the U.S. and the U.K., which also plans to operate a submarine from Stirling.

Doing submarine maintenance in Western Australia also gives the U.S. another option for repairs—in a spot that is relatively close to regional flashpoints, chiefly the South China Sea and Taiwan, the self-governing island that Beijing claims as its own territory, to be seized by force if necessary. A lot of maintenance is currently performed in Guam, Pearl Harbor or the U.S. mainland, defense analysts said, and U.S. shipyards are struggling to keep up.
“If you were in some kind of conflict, and your ships are getting damaged, you’re going to want to return to the fight quickly,” said Rear Adm. Lincoln Reifsteck, who commands an American submarine group, during a recent visit to the base. “So having this geography to enhance what you have in Guam, to enhance what you have in Pearl Harbor…it’s going to make the U.S. Navy able to get back to it faster.”

View attachment 49611
So the US gets basing rights for its N submarines in Perth & Oz picks up the tab running into billions of AuD to establish support structures.

No doubt this would be justified by Albanese & his Foreign Minister the dyke - Penny Wong as advance investment towards construction of the necessary infrastructure to base AUKUS submarines in the not so far future.

That the US is using these facilities today is only a temporary measure to prepare the way for AUKUS submarines to be based there soon. Plus RAN personnel get exposure & training into how to handle N submarines .

I can see the reason le Francais are so salty .