May be the bidders wanted this change to take part in new round of the bid. They want assurance from govt in this project. They may have showed will to exit.
May be the bidders wanted this change to take part in new round of the bid. They want assurance from govt in this project. They may have showed will to exit.
Either ways this is another year getting wasted for absolutely nothing but bureaucratic mess. Should've given the contract to HAL for one prototype and rest for private sector consortium.
Now since they will have another RFI-RFP circus to select partner for mass production which likely is going to be the one building the prototypes, you have another round of unnecessary round of bureaucratic delays completely avoidable, and that is presuming the winning consortium also bags production orders. If it is some other company then good luck getting them to work from scratch.
Yes, this was expected. Because both Indian private sector and government sector is new in this. None of them have experience to undertake such kind of huge and critical project which last long 15-20 years in aviation.
The contracts and the business arrangements will be written multiple times to suit the both parties and only then signed. Government may be studying the Rafale deal project and implementing similar if not same in this. Because this is a research project too. Building it from scratch, testing it and then putting it on production line, none have experience to carry out this kind of project at management level.
Its very complicated, we are new in this. Can't be compared to LCA because LCA was completely built by government and it's PSUs.
If govt hires from IIM ABC, FMS, XLRI, and replace the whole IPS/IAS cadre working on anything relating to defence, we would see just 20% of the current workforce easily handling execution.
We need educated managers to run the country, not dinosaur era guys who dreamt of cracking UPSC to get govt jobs.
Yea. But not all IAS IPS are shit. Ajit Doval, K Subramanyam (Jaishankars father who literally wrote our entire deterrence policy), Arunachalam etc type people were genuinely good.
But 90% of those guys are just middle class/lower middle class origin Indians who view IAS IPS as a pathway for them to attain wealth and power in a brutal society which otherwise doesn't care for them. National duty, national interest comes secondary. For people to be genuinely patriotic and devoted to the national interest we need to create a fairer, cleaner stronger society which we just don't have; the result is the free for all dog eat dog society we see now and this affects everything including defence.
But be forewarned, those IIM esq people will focus on the money and may not fund programs whicb initially are a money sink. I believe we need technocrats with an engineering backround to lead these programs. These finance and as @_Anonymous_ says BA English honors wala don't have what it takes to understand defence technology.
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There are a few good officers, but government has to find them out. Based on their past experience who have handled multiple major projects in India. For example many ex power secretaries, ex transportation and aviation secretaries are really good. Government needs to hunt the talent. Point is if they are interested or not.
The gaps between control surfaces & body have to be angled, otherwise vertical side becomes side reflector.
The following is example of F-22's slat's gap with wing root -
AMCA Static models focus on broad outline & have not shown the feature yet, but the real jet would apparently have it.
The following is example of F-22's slat's gap with wing root -
AMCA Static models focus on broad outline & have not shown the feature yet, but the real jet would apparently have it.
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I dont mind the delays. Its not a prestige race. Hand-holding the companies and getting the incentives right is more important.
I hope they choose more than 1 consortium. Banking on just 1 consortium will be disastrous. Inevitably there will be delays & problems as these companies are making such a complex a/c for the first time. Ideally, 2 consortiums competing with each other will result in more probability of success. Govt should bear the cost of development, not these companies, as they wont take the risk. Give a blank cheque to both the competitors to go all out. Money should not be a constraint. All our future wars will be fought under the shadow of AMCA. Its success is necessary. At all costs.
I hope they choose more than 1 consortium. Banking on just 1 consortium will be disastrous. Inevitably there will be delays & problems as these companies are making such a complex a/c for the first time. Ideally, 2 consortiums competing with each other will result in more probability of success. Govt should bear the cost of development, not these companies, as they wont take the risk. Give a blank cheque to both the competitors to go all out. Money should not be a constraint. All our future wars will be fought under the shadow of AMCA. Its success is necessary. At all costs.
no. just no. They have absolutely 0 experience with manufacturing any plane at scale, theyre good with missiles and electronics but thats about it.
i do wonder how much of the IAI lavi was from israeli and how much was from with outside assistance directly, still nothing to surprised much of it to be not made by themselves, already know the engines arent.
What exactly do they have to offer?
The places where they excel, i.e, weapons and electronics, we have decent base jn and some subcomponenets we lack could be easily imported from Europe or US
It's true that Israel is considering its own fighter & CCA in an attempt to reduce dependence on US aid:
Israel aims to build its own stealth fighter jets in 10 years | The Jerusalem Post
A senior Israeli official says the country is ready to develop homegrown stealth jets and unmanned combat aircraft as part of a push to reduce reliance on US aid
www.jpost.com
However whether they'll consider exploring an AMCA baseline is speculation at this point.
It's not about what they have to offer. Even if they did, we wouldn't consider it because of our indigenization requirements.
But if there is a proposal to share the AMCA baseline design (on which wind tunnel testing, PDR & preliminary RCS testing is done and CDR is underway) in exchange for some funding (or some critical tech transfer that allows us to leapfrog in our own programs, not necessarily aircraft-related), then it's certainly worth considering.
Once we provide the baseline design, what the Israelis do with it or what systems they put on it is up to them. Such an arrangement will not affect or interere in our program in any way. Not to mention, Israel would want full control over their system in any case.
Basic CAD model outline of AMCA is ready.
Solid & rendered views in green primer, stealthy tinted canopy.
Cockpit is empty, needs time to model small area with right measurements.
Full surface features remaining, will model 1 by 1.
Started with F-22 model but AMCA got ahead so far.
Fortunately my old laptop didn't crash or hang bcoz Blender's old versions also work sufficiently well for discussion purpose. No GPU needed, just 100-150 MB RAM with Core-2 Duo CPU.
I'll be tweaking this basic CAD as per my comprehension, but i wanted 1st to make a model closest to used in official infographics, so that we can discuss what improvements can be made with minimum modifications, like FOC & MLU.
Solid & rendered views in green primer, stealthy tinted canopy.
Cockpit is empty, needs time to model small area with right measurements.
Full surface features remaining, will model 1 by 1.
Started with F-22 model but AMCA got ahead so far.
Fortunately my old laptop didn't crash or hang bcoz Blender's old versions also work sufficiently well for discussion purpose. No GPU needed, just 100-150 MB RAM with Core-2 Duo CPU.
I'll be tweaking this basic CAD as per my comprehension, but i wanted 1st to make a model closest to used in official infographics, so that we can discuss what improvements can be made with minimum modifications, like FOC & MLU.
Really wish to see how a twin seater variant would look like ( ok i dont know what i pressed but it tagged the post 3 times, i am sorry for that, among my first messages i am posting here so need some time to get used to it)
- A medium jet has limited precious space for fuel & avionics.
- Automatic tech like eye tracker, gesture control, data gloves, voice input, etc have been researched In the West since 1990s.
- GCAS (Ground Collision Avoidance System) have been tested in 1990s. Today although F-35s are crashing but for future, an auto RTB (Return To Base) feature might be tested in case pilots passes out or is incapacitated.
- Today virtual cockpit is ready like demonstrated for BAe Tempest/GCAP.
- There'll always be losses on both sides. I would not want pilot & WSO both K.I.A. (Killed In Action).
- Hence being IT engineer i favor AI co-pilot over WSO, even if AI eating jobs & i can loose mine any day.
But just for fun, some day i'll try to carve out full depth rear cockpit in 3D & 2D to show what a massive waste of precious space it would be.
And if rear cockpit is raised then it'll increase RCS, IRS.
Would rather prefer this honestly compared to FCAS. Because that way, 1 partner wont overshadow the other and even if that happens to some extent it will be us.
Radars, we are emerging rapidly here but Israel has world class radar capability, they can easily make the AESA radar required for such a plane. They can contribute to the EW package as well, not to mention they have much deeper connects in Washington which means we can have access to US engines before the Indo French engine becomes a reality.
But this is never happening so whatever.
Thx for the reply, i am aware of the size constraints on AMCA sized fighter when it comes to twin seats, it was just curiosity of how one would look, on that note, the KF 21 which is in the same ballpark as the AMCA in length possibly, they did went ahead and made a flying twin seater as a prototype, wonder what the gonna do with that config, whether it will be actively produced into service as a trainer/ full fledged combatant ( most likely case and will be put into service as trainer and MUM-T possibly), or was just made for prototype testing, i am just seeing conflicting info on different sources when tried to find it, i guess they may still be going for a WSO as their automation and unmanned teaming wont be mature enough for some time and they dont want to bet too much on it for now. ( i maybe totally wrong here with the reasons and assumptions, so apologies in advance if that's the case)
There can be multiple ways of implementing things.
Humans do what they think & prioritize & it becomes their justification.
Management makes ultimate decision & their mentality overrides everybody even if different from most people.
Some will prioritize automation & using space for fuel & avionics & strive hard to mature the automation in time. They might even implement paid overtime or shift-duty so that people work 9x5 but factory work 16x5, so that they can race & lead the world or catch up fast.
Some would apply 2-seat bcoz either their AI would not mature in time like you said. Or budget constraint as AI training needs DataCenters with huge electricity & cooling.
Some would like to play conservative with the human touch.
Some don't want to race, lead or catch up.
Due to sensor fusion, glass cockpit, tabs/iPads strapped to pilot's thighs & all types of Man-Machine Interfaces tested since 1990s, I liked the examples of 1 set 5gen heavy class jets.