LoC Warfare tactics

[Falcon]

What about using some autonomous weapon systems like these.

View attachment 691

Sir.

They work on line of sight principle as far as I am aware. Also, they need a continuous supply of electricity and stable topography. Neither is available at present due to lack of 'authorisation' in the former (Posts in LoC do not have hard top roads or even tracks in many cases, have poor bunkers made of earth, rocks and tress and temporary at best) and lack of static mountains in the latter (Himalayas being young fold mountains).

Or were you being sarcastic here?

 

[Falcon]

Bcs Cooks r not available on each LoC Post



View attachment 690

Sir.

There are no cooks authorised to individual posts.

This is a defence forum, at least be serious. Next you will crib over no washerman. And the local sabjiwala.

 

[Shashank]

Sir.

There are no cooks authorised to individual posts.

This is a defence forum, at least be serious. Next you will crib over no washerman. And the local sabjiwala.

Falcon I would request not to get sarcastic with members, Kindly tags his tags and the reply to him. He is an expert and is representing shatrujeet here.

 

[Falcon]

Aside from the difficulties caused by the terrain and the associated costs to surmount them, the issue of material changes to the status on the LoC may be a problem. There are better ways to achieve the same thing

Sir.

The changes to LoC were affected by subsequent wars. The original Ceasefire Line of Karachi Agreement has been broached, replaced by the Simla Agreement.

Even on the latter, the Indian capture of Siachen and prior to that, occupation of places like Durmut Ridge in Gurez, Lunda Ridge in Machil, Losar Complex near Kanzalwan, has changed the status on LoC post signature of the Simla Agreement.

I doubt that either side holds any value for the 'pact'.

 

[Falcon]

Falcon I would request not to get sarcastic with members, Kindly tags his tags and the reply to him. He is an expert and is representing shatrujeet here.

Sir.

Please read my quoted post. I believe it was posted to him, quoting him.

His expertise is apparent:

Bcs Cooks r not available on each LoC Post


Let us now speculate as to what the highlighted acronym stands for. Hmmm, an expert?

Let us also analyze the sentence here. Wonder how many soldiers are authorized as Cook (General) and Cook (Special)? I wonder how many posts are held by a company? I wonder how the 'expert' member wants to address the issue of an Infantry Unit having an Area of Responsibility of 59 Kms frontage in Category 3 High Altitude Region holding multiple posts without changing the War Establishment Table?

Maybe it is time for me to learn? Please do educate me.

 

[Shashank]

Sir.

They work on line of sight principle as far as I am aware. Also, they need a continuous supply of electricity and stable topography. Neither is available at present due to lack of 'authorisation' in the former (Posts in LoC do not have hard top roads or even tracks in many cases, have poor bunkers made of earth, rocks and tress and temporary at best) and lack of static mountains in the latter (Himalayas being young fold mountains).

Or were you being sarcastic here?

I understand that think and hidden jungles are not ideal locations for platforms like these but we can definitely improvise.
Like using them to cover selected areas which are ok for their operation so remaining manpower can be focused in other areas. Also adding infra red sensors or motion detectors etc can add to their lethality.
Also I feel these systems can operate much better in areas which are under threat of sniper fires.

 

[Shashank]

Sir.

Please read my quoted post. I believe it was posted to him, quoting him.

His expertise is apparent:

Bcs Cooks r not available on each LoC Post


Let us now speculate as to what the highlighted acronym stands for. Hmmm, an expert?

Let us also analyze the sentence here. Wonder how many soldiers are authorized as Cook (General) and Cook (Special)? I wonder how many posts are held by a company? I wonder how the 'expert' member wants to address the issue of an Infantry Unit having an Area of Responsibility of 59 Kms frontage in Category 3 High Altitude Region holding multiple posts without changing the War Establishment Table?

My dear friend what I feel is that he was not cribbing. He was merely adding some caption while sharing a picture.
For some its glass half full and some say its half empty. Lets be optimist here.

 

[Falcon]

I understand that think and hidden jungles are not ideal locations for platforms like these but we can definitely improvise.
Like using them to cover selected areas which are ok for their operation so remaining manpower can be focused in other areas. Also adding infra red sensors or motion detectors etc can add to their lethality.
Also I feel these systems can operate much better in areas which are under threat of sniper fires.

I am sure you have understood that this is about LoC. Where do you propose? Let us discuss the regions you propose? This is, after all, a strategic front think tank initiative if am not mistaken. Will be glad to learn from your analysis of the LoC region and applicability of the system.

 

[Falcon]

My dear friend what I feel is that he was not cribbing. He was merely adding some caption while sharing a picture.
For some its glass half full and some say its half empty. Lets be optimist here.

Let me be optimistic. Stop being a tool of propaganda for Yadav 2.0 type misinformation campaign.

An 'expert' needs to be careful of pressing credentials and acting an amateur. My two paise worth (and it is worth jack now)

I am sure that your intervention on his behalf has not really buttressed the claims of expertise.

 

[Shashank]

I am sure you have understood that this is about LoC. Where do you propose? Let us discuss the regions you propose? This is, after all, a strategic front think tank initiative if am not mistaken. Will be glad to learn from your analysis of the LoC region and applicability of the system.

Lets say one of these autonomous system has potential to cover 1 kms in any direction why can it me placed at some vantage point just like an autonomous sniper which can gives us 24/7 coverage . Off course sensors etc needs to be tunes up or designs modifications needed but its doable as per me.

 

[Falcon]

Like using them to cover selected areas which are ok for their operation so remaining manpower can be focused in other areas. Also adding infra red sensors or motion detectors etc can add to their lethality.

I missed this.

What do you think UGS is being used for? What are it's drawbacks in the topography under consideration?

UGS being an unattended Ground Sensor.

 

[Falcon]

Lets say one of these autonomous system has potential to cover 1 kms in any direction why can it me placed at some vantage point just like an autonomous sniper which can gives us 24/7 coverage . Off course sensors etc needs to be tunes up or designs modifications needed but its doable as per me.

Sir.


So an autonomous firing system is supposed to eliminate a sniper? And how much time, in your opinion exclusively, will it take before a RPG takes your system out?

Or do you propose to have it inside a post?

 

[Shashank]

Sir.


So an autonomous firing system is supposed to eliminate a sniper? And how much time, in your opinion exclusively, will it take before a RPG takes your system out?

Or do you propose to have it inside a post?

Respected Sir I am not very good in English language so maybe you can help me understand how on earth "like an autonomous sniper " can be interpreted as eliminating a sniper.
I am not a great military expert like you but whatever little I know tells me that there are multiple layers of security at LOC and what if we find some sweet spot for such systems which are away from enemy LOS why cant we use them. Also if we use anti material rifles it will have better range than RPG for sure.

 

[Falcon]

@Shashank

Sir.

Please let us have a detailed reply on your proposal with respect to following considerations:

1. Logistics
2. Infrastructure
3. Proposed deployment philosophy.
4. Intended target analysis, appreciation of costs versus benefit.
5. Maintenance.
6. Topographical and Climatic vagarancies.

These for starters.

 

[Falcon]

Respected Sir I am not very good in English language so maybe you can help me understand how on earth "like an autonomous sniper " can be interpreted as eliminating a sniper.
I am not a great military expert like you but whatever little I know tells me that there are multiple layers of security at LOC and what if we find some sweet spot for such systems which are away from enemy LOS why cant we use them. Also if we use anti material rifles it will have better range and RPG for sure.

Sir.

Eliminate a requirement of a sniper? Perhaps my English is an issue, I agree. I will try and dilute my standards. Not a problem.

I have posted a comment tagging you. Maybe you would delve think on these points and reply.

PS: You can have your experts as earlier mentioned, comment on this too.

 

[Shashank]

@Shashank

Sir.

Please let us have a detailed reply on your proposal with respect to following considerations:

1. Logistics
2. Infrastructure
3. Proposed deployment philosophy.
4. Intended target analysis, appreciation of costs versus benefit.
5. Maintenance.
6. Topographical and Climatic vagarancies.

These for starters.

My Point which is still stuck in you mind was more of question if something similar can be used at LC or surrounding areas. Answer could have been a simple one liner that terrain will have limitation on such systems but i guess not everyone is on same page or have same interpretation. But what about using it on terrains which are suitable for such platforms, we can spare lots of soldiers in areas like poonch so we can kill more of infiltrators .
If needed system need not be a mobile unit , just sensors and a firing unit to make it lighter to operate and also less energy consumption. Also integrating it with other surveillance systems like predators and GPS location of our own soldiers can also have big impact on this. More than anything my main concern is avoiding loss of precious lives of soldiers.

 

[Falcon]

Sir.

My Point which is still stuck in you mind was more of question if something similar can be used at LC or surrounding areas.

I quote you as under:

Off course sensors etc needs to be tunes up or designs modifications needed but its doable as per me.

My reply to you earlier was as:

Sir.
They work on line of sight principle as far as I am aware. Also, they need a continuous supply of electricity and stable topography. Neither is available at present due to lack of 'authorisation' in the former (Posts in LoC do not have hard top roads or even tracks in many cases, have poor bunkers made of earth, rocks and tress and temporary at best) and lack of static mountains in the latter (Himalayas being young fold mountains).

Or were you being sarcastic here?

I am sure I failed to answer you? My sincere apologies to you.

Answer could have been a simple one liner that terrain will have limitation on such systems but i guess not everyone is on same page or have same interpretation.

Interesting.

I agree, absolutely. I clearly failed to answer you, I beg your pardon for that.

But what about using it on terrains which are suitable for such platforms, we can spare lots of soldiers in areas like poonch so we can kill more of infiltrators .

Please let me know how can I answer you. I tried by making a post tagging you, asking you to cover your proposal in the points as earlier. Perhaps if you were kind enough to take the trouble on that, you may, yourself, be able to answer this?

If needed system need not be a mobile unit , just sensors and a firing unit to make it lighter to operate and also less energy consumption. Also integrating it with other surveillance systems like predators and GPS location of our own soldiers can also have big impact on this. More than anything my main concern is avoiding loss of precious lives of soldiers.

Why do you think US failed and still fails in Afghanistan?

 

[Falcon]

You are disclosing sensitive information to public.

Sir.

If this was the sensitive information, I am sure those that matter, must be laughing themselves silly. More accurate and real time information is available to the adversaries through their own HUMINT assets.

 

[Bornubus]

Sir.

There are no cooks authorised to individual posts.

This is a defence forum, at least be serious. Next you will crib over no washerman. And the local sabjiwala.

Calm down and don't call me Sir. I know about it better than you. Kya galat likh diya post me ?


Pehle post thik se padh lo fir quote Karo dusron KO. Rest nobody is interested in your boring rants.

 

[Falcon]

Calm down and don't call me Sir. I know about it better than you. Kya galat likh diya post me ?


Pehle post thik se padh lo fir quote Karo dusron KO. Rest nobody is interested in your boring rants.

Sir.

I read your post and again. Quoting again:

Bcs Cooks r not available on each LoC Post

What is the authorisation of Cook (Special) and Cook (General) in an Infantry unit? (Taking it as a case only).

How many posts are under the Area of Responsibility of an Infantry Company? Is it fixed or, would you agree, it is variable and transitory in nature?

Seeing the transient nature and numbers of post held, what are your views on an infantry battalion in Category 3 High Altitude Area having a frontage of 59 kms under it's AOR and being the LoC unit in CI grid? (With 01 RR unit in depth for defences/2nd tier)

Now, in view of the above, what do you think army should do? Scrap the Soldier grade and re-muster the Cooks as dedicated appointment as earlier, thereby increasing the non fighting 'tail' or do you propose that everywhere a cook should be employed? If latter, what are your views on the head taking incident of a RR unit where in 12 heads were taken of RR unit personnel after the Civil Porter, who was tasked with helping in the cook house, successfully managed to add sedatives into the food being prepared for lunch and made away with 12 heads of ORs with a price tag of Rs 1 Lac per soldier at the time?

I am sure you know better about it than I. Quite apparent. Since you seem to know my credentials or lack thereof.


Kya galat likh diya post me ?

Nothing. Was Yadav wrong in complaining about poor food quality? Is it a falsification that due to road closure in winters, at times, fresh food, if available, is spoiled by the time it reaches the post?

No. There was nothing wrong in what Yadav said. But he made one cardinal mistake. He allowed himself to become the tool of Pakistani propaganda.

Now let us examine your post in same vein, hence my terming it as Yadav Version 2.0. Nothing much, but your being an 'expert' as my silent friend @Shashank pointed out, gives credence to your words to people who are ignorant of the realities as they stand. That allows it to become a tool of malicious propaganda targeting not the hierarchy of the leadership, but the masses of Indians who know no better.

Let us recall the recent video of the smashing of the mobile phones in the Mahar Regimental Center. The rules are clear - no mobile devices permitted in training. This is to drill into the soldiers that they will have to operate under no contact mission parameters. What happened? A mass propaganda was launched both by China and Pakistan and Indian media carried the report over it, without going into details why this order is necessary. Thereby, to an ignorant (in matters of army) we end up having a draconian army and the army is deplored and put on back foot as none are wiser for it.

That makes situation uncomfortable for the leadership of the army, which is subjected to various kinds of political pressures both directly and indirectly as the politician has to appease the civilians who are moved by such draconian practices.

And the fundamental reason? No one is bothered about it.

What has been seen? A soldier committed fratricide by killing a Major some time back, whose only mistake was that the officer checked the man from using his mobile while on a sentry duty along LoC. Was that officer wrong? Or was that infringement of the right's of the soldier?

Who would have been responsible had a BAT action team crawled up and the sentry was too busy listening to songs on his mobile to hear?

Yes, I understand boring rants they seem as they are not exactly 'sensational'

@Aashish
@Ashwin

I would urge the members here to be very careful as to what is being pushed across as a narrative. Let it be of very clear view that what you post, has to be carefully projected lest it becomes a tool for propaganda by the enemy nations.