Though this picture is shared since April itself, so probably much more older than that.
Arihant-class SSBN - News & Discussions
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
any estimation on noise levels of Indian boomers ? I was looking at this SSBN PIC & first thing i notice was these sail windows which was a big red flag to me.
Russian Subs & old chinese one also use them. Russians using them is understandable since they use it to navigate Sub from their port to open Sea because of Cold weather in North but why India ? There's no ice here , did they just did a copy paste from Russians with no thought about Geography at all ? Chinese got rid of these windows in there subsequent Subs since they are a major source of noise, but we didn't.
Here improved Jin class for e.g
Even moder Russian Sub have gone a long way trying to minimise there footprint in there modern sub.
Russian Subs & old chinese one also use them. Russians using them is understandable since they use it to navigate Sub from their port to open Sea because of Cold weather in North but why India ? There's no ice here , did they just did a copy paste from Russians with no thought about Geography at all ? Chinese got rid of these windows in there subsequent Subs since they are a major source of noise, but we didn't.
Here improved Jin class for e.g
Even moder Russian Sub have gone a long way trying to minimise there footprint in there modern sub.
More clear pic...no retrectable bow... sail windows which have zero practicality other than increasing dB level of sub are in use in tropical climate of Southern Hemisphere lol
doesn't have smooth body shape which will result in higher Hydrodynamic noise level. There's no pump jet either just 7 Blade screw.
Its nuclear reactor in all probability has seperate steam Generator, modern western & Russian Nuclear Sub doesn't have them. Decreasing noise level substantially.
engine, gearbox, shaft noise level probably are also off the charts.
I read somewhere that this sub has non hull Penetrating Mast ( which i highly doubt ) any truth in that ?
It's sonar is ancient based on Soviet rubikon shark teeth...conformal sonar are the hot deal nowdays.
Going by satellite images, I basically see no improvement in subsequent subs other than increase in length to accomodate more silo. Beam width is basically same..... so noise cancellation measures will be limited & we may even see an increase dB level in subsequent sub models since they have a much powerful bigger Nuclear reactor.
There are high chances that S3 & S4 are underwater orchestra & doesn't guarantee the safety level which we are hoping for our nuclear triad.
It's probably good enough for Pakistan but not good enough if we want to be Vishavguru.
Great video from US Sub...didn't go into details regarding Thermocline layer & shadow zones in oceans & how to hide subs there or to detect them there.
Sound propagation work differently underwater & specially under ocean where Pressure, temperature, salinity, background noise both biological as well as human made will affect dB levels significantly. ambient noise of ocean range from around 55 dB to 105 dB.
Here's a chart from internet about Russian subs sound level relative to 1 Pa at 1 Mt at 5-200 Hz & 1kz frequency spectrum
Only speed of Sub are mentioned running at 4 to 8 knots ( 2 m/s to 4 m/s )
" ultra quite mode " ( i might me wrong so feel free to correct me )
If we go by dB level of old Soviet subs mentioned... well they were underwater orchestra but that doesn't tell the whole picture.
Sound dB level are different in underwater from air due to difference in reference measurement...this difference is about 62 dB if u calculate but will change further in ocean due to factor mentioned above ( depth, temperature, salinity, Thermocline layer etc )....so a Sub like Akula with 110 dB noise level at 1kz underwater at 4 to 8 knots won't be the same as in Air.
SlL ( Sound intensity level in Air ) = SIL ( Water ) - 62 dB
For Akula ( Sub closest to Arihant which India has Operated ) that turn out to be around 48 dB at 20 Pa at 1 mt in Air at 1kz which is very quite by the way...Its the same sound a house refrigerator make & 30dB at 5 to 200 Hz frequency spectrum which is same as whispering
u can than use sound attenuation formula to calculate the distance at which these sub can than be detected , which again will depend on the capabilities of the passive Sonar & as mentioned above there are shadow zones in oceans where this s**t doesnt work.
Loudest Sub ever recorded were Chinese Sub i think with upward of 170 dB ( real underwater orchestra )
Modern US & western subs have noise level lower than ambient noise of ocean.
They will pass just 1 meter away from u in ultra quite mode & u probably won't even hear them.
Russians have made great strides in their subs lately thanks to espionage.....but still not close to western subs. Western subs are smaller ( length & width wise ) & has much powerful Nuclear reactor & yet still more quite than the best Russian sub out there.
So how does that affect india ? well it does & it doesn't.
It does in a sense if Russians are so far behind west than how far indian is...our technology rely heavily on Russians
& it doesn't in a sense that our weapons are mostly geared toward Pakistan which doesn't have any capability. India for all purpose will remain a regional player & our Vishavguru dream will remain that just a pipe dream......far away from ground realities if we don't change our course.India should look for west US or France for inspiration when setting parameters for designing a submarine specially nuclear subs & not russians going forward.
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Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile by INS Arihant successful. The missile was today tested to a predetermined range and it impacted the target area in the Bay of Bengal with high accuracy, validating all operational and technological parameters : INDIAN NAVY
So that notam for today was 740-750 km, probably K15 then?
So that notam for today was 740-750 km, probably K15 then?
still stuck with 750 km range SLBM ( 50s era technology )
Much needed with what's happening around the world....
NDTV: India Fires Ballistic Missile From Nuclear Sub In Landmark Test: 10 Facts.
www.ndtv.com
India Fires Ballistic Missile From Nuclear Sub In Landmark Test: 10 Facts
India's nuclear ballistic missile submarine INS Arihant successfully test-fired a ballistic missile on Friday, a major milestone as earlier test-firings were done from fixed underwater pontoons; this time the submarine itself launched the missile.
www.ndtv.com
Frankly speaking, take it with a pinch of Salt.....
Reality this is just declaration/announcement of our capabilities for international consumption.
Why???
Because everything related to nuclear weapons and delivery systems is classified and all announcements are done at least 3 to 5 years past the achievement. Like when it is announced that INS Arihant is in sea trials it actually was in active service and if you remember the second nuclear submarine was announced INS Aridhaman but out of blue came INS Arihant with no trace of Aridhaman till now.
So it could well be that even K4 may have been fired.
Also from what I have heard is this was a USER TRIAL. Expect more trials...
Frankly speaking, take it with a pinch of Salt.....
Reality this is just declaration/announcement of our capabilities for international consumption.
Why???
Because everything related to nuclear weapons and delivery systems is classified and all announcements are done at least 3 to 5 years past the achievement. Like when it is announced that INS Arihant is in sea trials it actually was in active service and if you remember the second nuclear submarine was announced INS Aridhaman but out of blue came INS Arihant with no trace of Aridhaman till now.
So it could well be that even K4 may have been fired.
Also from what I have heard is this was a USER TRIAL. Expect more trials...
NOTAM was for 740 Km so in all probability it was K 15.
Get ready for more good news. India will most probably conducting test for K4 missile too. NOTAM issued for 19th to 23rd October....
Finally Bigger D!k too will be shown to the world...
I hope we get to see launch video of it from submarine , there's only one video of it so far
Get ready for more good news. India will most probably conducting test for K4 missile too. NOTAM issued for 19th to 23rd October....
Finally Bigger D!k too will be shown to the world...
Even thst one video is actually from a pontoon back in 2014-16.I hope we get to see launch video of it from submarine , there's only one video of it so far
It gets posted online from time to time every time we hear a test.
Does Indian Navy use something like this ?
It's probably the best way of communicating underwater without compromising submarine location.... given undersea Data Nodes remain hidden....Possibilities are endless here from High Speed safe Data transfer ( two way or Multiple ) to basically guiding submarine to target accurately without enemy knowing anything in real time.
Imagine indian SSNs or SSBNs running ultra quite at it's maximum depth get's an ELF message to rendezvou at one of such nods spread throughout Indian Ocean fo further information. SSNs can basically cordinate attacks with other assets on Ground ( SMART system for e.g ) , Air assets & surface ship's without giving it's location in real time....same goes for Boomers....they can just sit at one such location where Data Nod is located for whole course of their deployment with screw off at their maximum depth & only surface when subs get's a secure message from one of these nods to fire the Nukes.
Now this happen last year
such nods can help mitigate situation like this from occurring to some extent specially in case of Non Nuclear Subs.
their is one video of US Navy SSNs on YouTube i think ( i might be wrong ) where such capability has been unintentionally leaked by mistake...i will post it here, if i can find it.
Knowledgeable Members here can shed more light on this communication method.
It's probably the best way of communicating underwater without compromising submarine location.... given undersea Data Nodes remain hidden....Possibilities are endless here from High Speed safe Data transfer ( two way or Multiple ) to basically guiding submarine to target accurately without enemy knowing anything in real time.
Imagine indian SSNs or SSBNs running ultra quite at it's maximum depth get's an ELF message to rendezvou at one of such nods spread throughout Indian Ocean fo further information. SSNs can basically cordinate attacks with other assets on Ground ( SMART system for e.g ) , Air assets & surface ship's without giving it's location in real time....same goes for Boomers....they can just sit at one such location where Data Nod is located for whole course of their deployment with screw off at their maximum depth & only surface when subs get's a secure message from one of these nods to fire the Nukes.
Now this happen last year
such nods can help mitigate situation like this from occurring to some extent specially in case of Non Nuclear Subs.
their is one video of US Navy SSNs on YouTube i think ( i might be wrong ) where such capability has been unintentionally leaked by mistake...i will post it here, if i can find it.
Knowledgeable Members here can shed more light on this communication method.
I suppose you are talking of SOSUS....
Yes Indian Navy uses this and has access to US underwater network too, if I am not wrong....
SOSUS is different
unlike sound waves or Bluegreen laser method which are under study i think more practically viable method would be to use cables to connect them to Sub in deep ocean which is a challenging but not impossible, as i said i think Americans already use it so does Russians.
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This confirms what I have always said. We underplay our capabilities. Meaning when ins Arihant is declared as operational it means we have 2 in in sea when government announced ins arighat instead of Aridhaman it means we had operationalized 2slbms and now we have all 4 in sea 2 declared small boats and 2 bigger boats S4 and S4*.and construction of SSN might also be in full swing and who knows might be on trials as ins chakra2 is no more with and Indian Navy won't allow it's capabilities to go down. Also the missile test was just the declaration of India's capabilities that we have arrived and we now want permanent UN security council seat with veto power while the fact is ins Arihant first fired the missile in 2016 itself....
Also this could also be the reason why Chinese lizard army went back to their shit hole....
