Arihant-class SSBN - News & Discussions

[ Also the missile test was just the declaration of India's capabilities that we have arrived and we now want permanent UN security council seat with veto power
By this, N korea deserve to be a permanent UN memeber. Its not the missile tests making u a worthy UN permanent member, your capacity to sides with righteousness, your ability to raise your voice, your ability to make stand did have an impact.
What we are good in is "walk out when voting happens". We even walk out when voting is happened against china on human rights violations.
 
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any estimation on noise levels of Indian boomers ?

There are only two small clues about it.

As per Trubnikov, an ex-Russian ambassador to India, the Arihant's based on the Akula class and has a similar noise level, possibly referring to the Typhoon class.

And there's this:
Is the noise level comparable to other submarines of this class, since that is one way of detecting submarines?

Yes, I think so. You have seen the inside. Tell me if you felt some sound there?

Compared to a power reactor the sound was minimal.

Compared to machinery running in any other place, did you hear much sound? I think this is a very quiet system.
 
India should look for west US or France for inspiration when setting parameters for designing a submarine specially nuclear subs & not russians going forward.

The SSNs are expected to be 95% indigenous for the first 3 and 97% for the following 3. So I guess we are doing things on our own.
 
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Does Indian Navy use something like this ?

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It's probably the best way of communicating underwater without compromising submarine location.... given undersea Data Nodes remain hidden....Possibilities are endless here from High Speed safe Data transfer ( two way or Multiple ) to basically guiding submarine to target accurately without enemy knowing anything in real time.


Imagine indian SSNs or SSBNs running ultra quite at it's maximum depth get's an ELF message to rendezvou at one of such nods spread throughout Indian Ocean fo further information. SSNs can basically cordinate attacks with other assets on Ground ( SMART system for e.g ) , Air assets & surface ship's without giving it's location in real time....same goes for Boomers....they can just sit at one such location where Data Nod is located for whole course of their deployment with screw off at their maximum depth & only surface when subs get's a secure message from one of these nods to fire the Nukes.


Now this happen last year

such nods can help mitigate situation like this from occurring to some extent specially in case of Non Nuclear Subs.

their is one video of US Navy SSNs on YouTube i think ( i might be wrong ) where such capability has been unintentionally leaked by mistake...i will post it here, if i can find it.

Knowledgeable Members here can shed more light on this communication method.

We have both VLF and ELF stations.



We have satellite based comm systems too.
 
There are only two small clues about it.

As per Trubnikov, an ex-Russian ambassador to India, the Arihant's based on the Akula class and has a similar noise level, possibly referring to the Typhoon class.

And there's this:
Is the noise level comparable to other submarines of this class, since that is one way of detecting submarines?

Yes, I think so. You have seen the inside. Tell me if you felt some sound there?

Compared to a power reactor the sound was minimal.

Compared to machinery running in any other place, did you hear much sound? I think this is a very quiet system.
It's a noisy sub for sure, don't think it's even close to Akula which has a much bigger powerful reactor.
We have both VLF and ELF stations.



We have satellite based comm systems too.
I am not talking about VLF , ELF , or Satcom based Com, which have their limitations....post was about something completely different....about how to communicate undersea safely in communication denial environment ( two way or Multiple) 🙂
 
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It's a noisy sub for sure, don't think it's even close to Akula which has a much bigger powerful reactor.

If the ambassador was telling the truth, and Arihant's noise levels are similar to the Typhoon class, then that's a massive achievement given the difference in size. The bigger the sub, the easier it is to silence it.

I am not talking about VLF , ELF , or Satcom based Com, which have their limitations....post was about something completely different....about how to communicate undersea safely in communication denial environment ( two way or Multiple) 🙂

Another member here had pointed out SOSUS, so I thought you wanted a different answer. But yeah, we have the SOSUS acting as nodes for communications. We also have our own SOSUS type systems, not just the ones with US-Japan, likely of a limited or an experimental nature rather than operational. But who knows? There's been chatter about it since 2016, and the navy has seen a very aggressive budget expansion since 2020.
 
If the ambassador was telling the truth, and Arihant's noise levels are similar to the Typhoon class, then that's a massive achievement given the difference in size. The bigger the sub, the easier it is to silence it.



Another member here had pointed out SOSUS, so I thought you wanted a different answer. But yeah, we have the SOSUS acting as nodes for communications. We also have our own SOSUS type systems, not just the ones with US-Japan, likely of a limited or an experimental nature rather than operational. But who knows? There's been chatter about it since 2016, and the navy has seen a very aggressive budget expansion since 2020.
Indian fish hook which is indian SOSUS is completely a different thing....something to do with surveillance using Passive Sonars not communication. I am talking about safe undersea high speed communication two or multiple ways which is impossible without compromising sub location.
VLF & ELF are only one way & are very slow & because of limited bandwidth , u can't phone or video call.....Using Buoy for communication is risky & can give away sub location.
in communication denial environment u can't use any of the techniques mentioned above.

I was talking about communicating using hidden undersea submarine cables which can than be used to transfer high speed data to subs using such Nodes spread throughout Oceans in real time , which eliminates many of the limitations mentioned above while keeping Nuclear Subs completely hidden....even very noisy one.
 
Indian fish hook which is indian SOSUS is completely a different thing....something to do with surveillance using Passive Sonars not communication. I am talking about safe undersea high speed communication two or multiple ways which is impossible without compromising sub location.
VLF & ELF are only one way & are very slow & because of limited bandwidth , u can't phone or video call.....Using Buoy for communication is risky & can give away sub location.
in communication denial environment u can't use any of the techniques mentioned above.

I was talking about communicating using hidden undersea submarine cables which can than be used to transfer high speed data to subs using such Nodes spread throughout Oceans in real time , which eliminates many of the limitations mentioned above while keeping Nuclear Subs completely hidden....even very noisy one.

From what I understand, new SOSUS networks are being upgraded to act as comm nodes as well. There's also a program called DRAPES.


And I believe it was Sutton who wrote in an article that the SOSUS network can connect submarines in its viscinity to bases. So the network has obviously seen massive upgrades. DRAPES removes cables and replaces them with wireless modems.

As for Fish Hook, because of its ability to communicate, the Chinese were complaining to the US and Japan about India using it for area denial. Which is why I believe the reports about the Sumatra-A&N wall being of Indian make is false. We are likely just paying to be part of it. We need our own pan-IOR network.
 
From what I understand, new SOSUS networks are being upgraded to act as comm nodes as well. There's also a program called DRAPES.


And I believe it was Sutton who wrote in an article that the SOSUS network can connect submarines in its viscinity to bases. So the network has obviously seen massive upgrades. DRAPES removes cables and replaces them with wireless modems.

As for Fish Hook, because of its ability to communicate, the Chinese were complaining to the US and Japan about India using it for area denial. Which is why I believe the reports about the Sumatra-A&N wall being of Indian make is false. We are likely just paying to be part of it. We need our own pan-IOR network.
Probably using underwater acoustic communication which can communicate to distance of several kilometres underwater but again it has limitations of very low data rate....nonetheless great if we are using it though
 
Probably using underwater acoustic communication which can communicate to distance of several kilometres underwater but again it has limitations of very low data rate....nonetheless great if we are using it though

No clue about the range or data rate though. It should be whatever's cutting edge today, 'cause the US and Japan use the same thing. In fact, to connect with US systems, we have to use their comm systems, it's not a choice.
 
No clue about the range or data rate though. It should be whatever's cutting edge today, 'cause the US and Japan use the same thing. In fact, to connect with US systems, we have to use their comm systems, it's not a choice.
Most such communication is using Acoustic waves which are inherently slow at data transfer...it's their property, no amount of cutting edge will change limitations imposed by Physics, but they can be used for two way communication, unlike VLF, ELF but rather at short distances.

There are other ways of communicating or proposed undersea communication usin RF & Laser to achieve high data rate transfer ( two way or Multiple ) but again achieving desired range has been a challenge. RF Communication is limited by skin affect of Seawater.
Laser Communication is another method but they against have their limitations from range to clear LOS etc

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Most such communication is using Acoustic waves which are inherently slow at data transfer...it's their property, no amount of cutting edge will change limitations imposed by Physics, but they can be used for two way communication, unlike VLF, ELF but rather at short distances.

There are other ways of communicating or proposed undersea communication usin RF & Laser to achieve high data rate transfer ( two way or Multiple ) but again achieving desired range has been a challenge. RF Communication is limited by skin affect of Seawater.
Laser Communication is another method but they against have their limitations from range to clear LOS etc

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There's no way to tell what they are using. They would have considered dealing with obsolescense issues as well, like upgrades every few years to get new tech.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother breaking our heads over it. The Fish Hook has given India access to whatever's the most cutting edge American underwater comm tech today, with the lessons likely transferable to our own systems, and that could already be happening today.

We have always relied on our own tech when it comes to communications, and now we are using our own IP in the design and development of underwater tech, that should give us enough confidence that we are performing to acceptable levels. Underwater tech is one department which we started alongside some of our other core competencies like ballistic missiles, space tech and nuclear tech. People end up judging us on fields we have less experience in instead, like tanks and fighters, just 20-30 years of experience compared to 50+ for the others.

We have sat-based laser comm too. The GSAT-29 was launched with some experimental payloads in 2018. So the IN's next satellite could very well carry such a payload next year, the GSAT-7R.
 
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Great video from inside of Russian Titanium Submarine Pskov from Project 945A Sierra Class.



even after 3 decades in service there's basically no sign of rust anywhere , probably the cleanest submarine i have ever seen , even host of the show was surprised & was emphasising it again and again.

Well there's a lesson here for India going forward.
Indian Ocean Geography is both a curse and a boon for Submarine. Warm Tropical climate of Indian Ocean and it's high salinity content is basically a rusting furnace for Submarine Hull......this will greatly affect capabilities of our submarine.....resulting in reduce life span, depth rating and increase dB level of our submarine as time passes by.


a Submarine like above made of suitable Military grade Titanium alloys with high module of elasticity can help mitigate those risks....and for a country like India that's important , very very important.... Since technology level of our Subs specially in regards to low power & high dB level of indian Nuclear submarines are probably a headache, so will be maintenance as time passes by.

a Nuclear submarine made up of Titanium alloys can be a game changer.

Modern military grade Titanium alloys are lighter, have high young module , tensile & yield strength, allowing submarine to be fast, dive deeper and remain stealthy.

Pskov Project 945A titanium hull lifespan is estimated to be around 100 years....yes you heard it right fcking 100 years.


India has one of the biggest Reserves of Titanium in the world. We need to seriously look for building next generation of our Nuclear Subs using Titanium alloys.