Chinese Missile Systems : Discussions

[randomradio]

All your inferences are based on the limited range of PL-15. So the question is, where did you get the specific range of PL-15?

It's easy to calculate because we can relate it to known figures of other missiles.

AIM-120A/B's NEZ is 20 km, and the Europeans said Meteor has 3 times that, so Meteor is 60 km.

PL-15 exceeds Meteor's range. We know Meteor can do 250 km, so we can estimate PL-15 for a range up to 300 km, both could drop well below mach 2.5 at that point. And we know the Dmax of PL-15E is 145 km, so max range should be 200 km.

Now with just 10-15 seconds of boost, the PL-15 starts losing energy around the 50-55 km mark. If a target is around, the seeker will pick it up and a second pulse is activated, that's about an extra 15 km. So this way the missile is at its highest speed throughout the flight profile until target miss/impact. That's how you get NEZ. Highest speed and highest G performance with highest SSKP during impact against a target that's maneuvering and using countermeasures.

 

[LX1111]

It's easy to calculate because we can relate it to known figures of other missiles.

AIM-120A/B's NEZ is 20 km, and the Europeans said Meteor has 3 times that, so Meteor is 60 km.

PL-15 exceeds Meteor's range. We know Meteor can do 250 km, so we can estimate PL-15 for a range up to 300 km, both could drop well below mach 2.5 at that point. And we know the Dmax of PL-15E is 145 km, so max range should be 200 km.

Now with just 10-15 seconds of boost, the PL-15 starts losing energy around the 50-55 km mark. If a target is around, the seeker will pick it up and a second pulse is activated, that's about an extra 15 km. So this way the missile is at its highest speed throughout the flight profile until target miss/impact. That's how you get NEZ. Highest speed and highest G performance with highest SSKP during impact against a target that's maneuvering and using countermeasures.

OK, now all your stuff can be said to be your own assumptions. The only thing you have verified now is that China once marked the effective range of PL-15E as 145 kilometers.

You don't even know under what conditions China measured the 145km figure.

So your assumptions can only be called limited assumptions.

Also, I took a quick look at your assumptions, and I found an obvious misunderstanding on your part. The dual-pulse engine can adjust the pulse, and its range is a variable data.

 

[randomradio]

OK, now all your stuff can be said to be your own assumptions. The only thing you have verified now is that China once marked the effective range of PL-15E as 145 kilometers.

You don't even know under what conditions China measured the 145km figure.

So your assumptions can only be called limited assumptions.

Also, I took a quick look at your assumptions, and I found an obvious misunderstanding on your part. The dual-pulse engine can adjust the pulse, and its range is a variable data.

Call them assumptions, but they will be very close to the truth.

The dual pulse too, I have assumed the highest range. So all its productive ranges will be less than my assumptions, not more.

F-22 pilots too have openly said that they try to get within 50 km of a target for a BVR launch, that's about 10-15 km more than the NEZ of the AIM-120D.

There are other design considerations too. Like Astra Mk1 uses higher boost speed of mach 4.5 to maximise long range, whereas R-77-1 uses slower boost speed of mach 4 to maximise NEZ while sacrificing long range. PL-15 uses its greater fuel reserve and dual pulse motor to deliver a mach 5+ burnout speed to get its higher range, like Astra Mk1. So its NEZ will be lower than its true potential, like Astra Mk1, so 70 km is acceptable, with the second pulse adding 15 km. But if PL-15 uses the range mode of the second pulse, then its NEZ will be even lesser because the objective is range. So NEZ vs top range is subject to design compromises.

AMRAAM-D gets its long range because it burns out at mach 4 while carrying more fuel than Astra Mk1.

Meteor too provides 250 km at mach 3.5 + glide. But when it accelerates to mach 4.5, the top range reduces to 100+ km. That's 60 km at top speed, and then glides the remaining 40+ km before it loses most of its energy.

 

[LX1111]

Call them assumptions, but they will be very close to the truth.

The dual pulse too, I have assumed the highest range. So all its productive ranges will be less than my assumptions, not more.

F-22 pilots too have openly said that they try to get within 50 km of a target for a BVR launch, that's about 10-15 km more than the NEZ of the AIM-120D.

There are other design considerations too. Like Astra Mk1 uses higher boost speed of mach 4.5 to maximise long range, whereas R-77-1 uses slower boost speed of mach 4 to maximise NEZ while sacrificing long range. PL-15 uses its greater fuel reserve and dual pulse motor to deliver a mach 5+ burnout speed to get its higher range, like Astra Mk1. So its NEZ will be lower than its true potential, like Astra Mk1, so 70 km is acceptable, with the second pulse adding 15 km. But if PL-15 uses the range mode of the second pulse, then its NEZ will be even lesser because the objective is range. So NEZ vs top range is subject to design compromises.

AMRAAM-D gets its long range because it burns out at mach 4 while carrying more fuel than Astra Mk1.

Meteor too provides 250 km at mach 3.5 + glide. But when it accelerates to mach 4.5, the top range reduces to 100+ km. That's 60 km at top speed, and then glides the remaining 40+ km before it loses most of its energy.

Never mind, I don't want to say anything, since you don't want the real thing, such stupid stuff,, I didn't even quote from a Chinese or Pakistani forum, I just quoted from an American Reddit channel, and it was deleted from this forum
This forum is no different from any other Indian forum
Can turning a blind eye to the problem really save the Indian Air Force from failure?

 

[randomradio]

Never mind, I don't want to say anything, since you don't want the real thing, such stupid stuff,, I didn't even quote from a Chinese or Pakistani forum, I just quoted from an American Reddit channel, and it was deleted from this forum
This forum is no different from any other Indian forum
Can turning a blind eye to the problem really save the Indian Air Force from failure?

American Reddit channel about PL-15? What did they say? My posts were deleted too.

 

[randomradio]

@LX1111

You can see the drag marks on the ground.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1920717302821007367

The missile fell intact, so it was a soft landing, and you can still see the ground damage. There's no such thing visible in the M88 video.

@Amarante @Picdelamirand-oil

 

[South block]

Seeker ...... Whole thing is intact lol





Type WNB7068H-A Ku-band TR component

Production Date: July 2015

No. 55 Research Facility, China Electronics Technology Group Corporation

 

[RASALGHUL]

Seeker ...... Whole thing is intact lol

View attachment 43005
View attachment 43006
View attachment 43007View attachment 43008

Type WNB7068H-A Ku-band TR component

Production Date: July 2015

No. 55 Research Facility, China Electronics Technology Group Corporation

Who took these Pics? What language is present at bottom of pics?

 

[South block]

Who took these Pics? What language is present at bottom of pics?

It's Chinese.... I posted translation

 

[Rajput Lion]

Seeker ...... Whole thing is intact lol

View attachment 43005
View attachment 43006
View attachment 43007View attachment 43008

Type WNB7068H-A Ku-band TR component

Production Date: July 2015

No. 55 Research Facility, China Electronics Technology Group Corporation

If production batch of this seeker is July 2015 then it's the full-blown PL-15 itself that MKI(our jets) has defeated. The E version was announced just few years ago while the original PL-15 is in service from 2015/16 itself.

If my speculation is true then it's a huge find by us to decipher enemy sensors for ECM and counter ECCM, IMO.

@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @marich01, @Ashwin, @Ironhide, @Speedster1, @nair, @Hellfire, @Milspec, @_Anonymous_ , @SammyBoi, @Sathya, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @South block, @Asterion Moloc, @YoungWolf, @Bali78 et al

 

[South block]

If production batch of this seeker is July 2015 then it's the full-blown PL-15 itself that MKI(our jets) has defeated. The E version was announced just few years ago while the original PL-15 is in service from 2015/16 itself.

If my speculation is true then it's a huge find by us to decipher enemy sensors.

@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @marich01, @Ashwin, @Ironhide, @Speedster1, @nair, @Hellfire, @Milspec, @_Anonymous_ , @SammyBoi, @Sathya, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @South block, @Asterion Moloc, @YoungWolf, @Bali78 et al

We can actually get a lot of information by just looking at the antenna array forget about rest of the systems..... Knowing it's material composition & measuring the T/R module dimension can easily give us the wavelength the seeker operating in + power it's consuming & so on...... This is just a 10 year old missile & the best Chinese has to offer & Pakistan just f***d Chongs in the butt..... They are already crying in r/China about this

 

[randomradio]

We can actually get a lot of information by just looking at the antenna array forget about rest of the systems..... Knowing it's material composition & measuring the T/R module dimension can easily give us the wavelength the seeker operating in + power it's consuming & so on...... This is just a 10 year old missile & the best Chinese has to offer & Pakistan just f***d Chongs in the butt..... They are already crying in R/China about this

View attachment 43015

The warhead is missing in the video, while the airframe and seeker are fine. That's normal for AAMs.

When an AAM's warhead activates, it pushes the seeker forward and the fragmentation warhead explodes all around the missile without damaging it.

That's also why the Pakistanis found an R-73 with only its warhead missing. It was the same thing.

If the warhead is missing then the missile has done its job. Whether it was a miss or led to a kill, that's a different story. To get a real intact missile, we need the warhead too.

 

[Lolwa]

If production batch of this seeker is July 2015 then it's the full-blown PL-15 itself that MKI(our jets) has defeated. The E version was announced just few years ago while the original PL-15 is in service from 2015/16 itself.

If my speculation is true then it's a huge find by us to decipher enemy sensors for ECM and counter ECCM, IMO.

@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @marich01, @Ashwin, @Ironhide, @Speedster1, @nair, @Hellfire, @Milspec, @_Anonymous_ , @SammyBoi, @Sathya, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @South block, @Asterion Moloc, @YoungWolf, @Bali78 et al

Would make sense actually if they were able to push us back into our airspace for that long. They might actually have used the original variants of pl-15.
The pl-15E doesn't really bring that much of a difference. We ourselves have the astra mk1, r-27ER as options that could have engaged them. And news reports from foreign twitter handles and "thinktanks" is coming that the bvr fights took place at 160km which is more than the range of pl-15E. The Pakistanis have themselves said that they were using non-export pl-15's too. So that might explain why they were so aggressive.

 

[RationalGuy]

@LX1111 dear comrade from the east you said the glorious air defence of the invincible Peoples Republic could stop even Agni 5 but the mighty HQ9 can't even handle subsonic cruise missiles? What does that say about your other air defence systems?

 

[Amarante]

@LX1111

You can see the drag marks on the ground.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1920717302821007367

The missile fell intact, so it was a soft landing, and you can still see the ground damage. There's no such thing visible in the M88 video.

@Amarante @Picdelamirand-oil

(...) we are not discussing this anymore, it's pointless. (...)

 

[CATS @hunter]

The HQ systems were completely failed not able to protect a single airbase, unlike it's counterparts on the other side face wave after wave attacks almost had over More than 90% interception rate, over a such a big geographical area, from Gujarat to leh,
There was no interception for brahmos it hit multiple airbase and got kill such as 5 PAF personal and injuring 12 others in bholari out of those dead were 4 pilots,

 

[randomradio]

Just added more context to the original point. There was no new argument then.

More arguments have been made now, after a ceasefire was declared. Post 1930.

Post in thread 'Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan'

May 10, 2025

So this all was a fukken propaganda???

Apart from dismissing the tail fin for the moment. There's also an M88 video.

Discussed and rebuted here.

And this is the reason.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1921034310208848177

You can see the crater on the same type of terrain. The M88 crash site is way too clean.

Apart from that, all other crashes have no wreckages. There's one with a supposed Mirage 2000's M53, but no wreckage. There's another with 2 rings, we can't see the wreckage.

Here's a...

• randomradio

• 

 

[South block]

Chinese systems turned out to be dud or it was pure Porkee incompetence at display for everyone to see.

 

[RationalGuy]

Chinese systems turned out to be dud or it was pure Porkee incompetence at display for everyone to see.

Their air defence systems was definitely a dud but with all due respect a lot of evidence is pointing to the fact that their J10C and PL15 combination is indeed very deadly.

 

[LX1111]

@LX1111

You can see the drag marks on the ground.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1920717302821007367

The missile fell intact, so it was a soft landing, and you can still see the ground damage. There's no such thing visible in the M88 video.

@Amarante @Picdelamirand-oil

This is a photo of the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 after it was shot down by a Buk missile. You can't see any damage to the wheat field on the ground either. This is because the passenger plane disintegrated in the air, and what appeared on the ground were just the debris. I think the situation of the Rafale fighter jet is the same.