Dassault Rafale - Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter Domobran7
- Start date
No, it's an infrastructure that can do a lot of things (inter-patrol data link). The study is old and was geared towards ‘passive use’, but when you have Tragedac you have 80% of multi-static radar, so since then....
Seeing without being seen...
Challenges for the future
Provide the Rafale (and future combat UAVs) with networked passive 3D localisation to :
- Establish a tactical situation (friendly / enemy positions)
- Obtain more responsive and better coordinated fire control during patrols.
- Technological challenges
Use of information from networked aircraft sensors (interoperability)
DGA's plus points
- In-flight validation of the technological building blocks
- Definition of concepts for use in piloted simulation
Etude amont TRAGEDAC
Curse is people like this fellow, the second finest stealth fighter after f22 is on offer but for him its just an offer.
I am really envious & feeling pitty on Pakistan. Envious when comes to defense procurement & pitty because they placed order for j31, will place order for kaan to fight an airforce still flying mig21.
This person does not matter. Doval; Rajnath singh & Modi are on top.....please trust them.
Last 11 years, mmrca still tendering stage. Remember its started under Atalji's regime. I have 0 trust.
Test for AASM 1000, not Mk84 or BLU109 but the new French P1000 bomb from ARESIA: A bunker buster you might say
Rafale with PGM 500s, 2 of which are ventral... and a NeuroN (for UAE !)
Dassault chief Trappier outlines Rafale roadmap to F5 standards
By Dominic Perry March 5, 2025
Dassault Aviation's F5 Rafale fighter will feature more powerful engines, improved survivability and data links, and will be accompanied by an unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) weighing more than 10 tonnes, according to the French aircraft manufacturer's chief executive.
The stealthy UCAV will be more than twice the size of the Neuron, an unmanned demonstrator developed by the company and its partners over the past decade.
Speaking to FlightGlobal in Paris on 5 March, Eric Trappier said he hoped to receive a development contract for the F5 from the French government in the coming months, with a view to entry into service in 2030.
Dassault envisages a UCAV twice the size of the Neuron technology demonstrator.
Because of the aircraft's nuclear deterrent mission, the F5 will be designed to carry the new ASN4G munition, a hypersonic scramjet missile developed by MBDA.
Although the exact upgrade requirements for the F5 will be determined by the French armed forces, Trappier says that ‘connectivity will be important for the nuclear mission’.
In addition, other systems will also need to be upgraded, such as radar, other sensors and the countermeasures suite.
‘The first objective of a fighter is to survive so that it can fire its weapons,’ he explains.
When initial study work on the F5 was announced last October, French Defence Minister Sébastien Lecornu said the Rafale would be ‘supported by a stealth combat drone’.
‘We believe that adding a UCAV to the Rafale could also improve mission performance with air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities,’ Trappier said.
In the 2010s, Dassault developed and flew its Neuron UCAV demonstrator, leading a multinational team on the project.
According to Mr Trappier, the new UCAV will be considerably larger than the Neuron, which was ‘a small drone’ with a maximum take-off mass of around 5-6 t. ‘We're going to more than double the mass of the UCAV,’ he says.
‘We're going to more than double that weight in order to carry weapons and achieve a certain range. It will be a big drone.
He refuses to say whether it will be a single-engine or twin-engine aircraft, but specifies that it will have stealth characteristics.
At the same time, Safran Aircraft Engines has launched a programme to increase the thrust of the Rafale's M88 engines.
Known as the T-Rex project, improvements to the engine's hot section will increase thrust beyond the current maximum of 50 kN (11,240 lb) without increasing engine size.
Mr Trappier would not comment on the exact thrust required, but said it was ‘a little more than we had previously envisaged’.
Keeping the same engine size also means that there is no need to change the basic design of the Rafale.
‘It is possible to increase the size of the Rafale slightly, but that is not the way we envisage the [F5] today,’ Trappier explains.
Meanwhile, Dassault aims to deliver 25 multi-role fighters this year - an increase of four units on its 2024 performance - 13 of which will be handed over to the French air force.
Production of the main parts of the aircraft in-house and at some subcontractors is proceeding at what Mr Trappier calls ‘pace 3’ - sufficient to support the production of three aircraft a month - but this has not yet been passed on to the final assembly line at Mérignac.
‘At Mérignac, we need a little time to increase our production’, he explains.
At rate 3, 33 jets would be built in a year - the factory closes every August - and there are also plans to increase the rate to rate 4.
Even higher rates could be achieved if demand allows, he notes.
Mr Trappier remains confident that India will soon contract for 26 Rafale Ms with transport capability for its navy, with the air force also considering a further order to complement the existing fleet of 36 aircraft.
New Delhi's major commitments are likely to require the localisation of production to comply with the ‘Make in India’ programme, which would lead Dassault to ‘open a new assembly line in India to be able to absorb the load’, says Mr Trappier.
France is also considering another batch of up to 30 aircraft for delivery in the 2030s.
Dassault's order book for the Rafale comprises 56 aircraft for France and 164 for export customers, including Indonesia, Serbia and the United Arab Emirates. The first aircraft for the United Arab Emirates recently entered service at Mérignac.
By Dominic Perry March 5, 2025
Dassault Aviation's F5 Rafale fighter will feature more powerful engines, improved survivability and data links, and will be accompanied by an unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) weighing more than 10 tonnes, according to the French aircraft manufacturer's chief executive.
The stealthy UCAV will be more than twice the size of the Neuron, an unmanned demonstrator developed by the company and its partners over the past decade.
Speaking to FlightGlobal in Paris on 5 March, Eric Trappier said he hoped to receive a development contract for the F5 from the French government in the coming months, with a view to entry into service in 2030.
Dassault envisages a UCAV twice the size of the Neuron technology demonstrator.
Because of the aircraft's nuclear deterrent mission, the F5 will be designed to carry the new ASN4G munition, a hypersonic scramjet missile developed by MBDA.
Although the exact upgrade requirements for the F5 will be determined by the French armed forces, Trappier says that ‘connectivity will be important for the nuclear mission’.
In addition, other systems will also need to be upgraded, such as radar, other sensors and the countermeasures suite.
‘The first objective of a fighter is to survive so that it can fire its weapons,’ he explains.
When initial study work on the F5 was announced last October, French Defence Minister Sébastien Lecornu said the Rafale would be ‘supported by a stealth combat drone’.
‘We believe that adding a UCAV to the Rafale could also improve mission performance with air-to-ground and air-to-air capabilities,’ Trappier said.
In the 2010s, Dassault developed and flew its Neuron UCAV demonstrator, leading a multinational team on the project.
According to Mr Trappier, the new UCAV will be considerably larger than the Neuron, which was ‘a small drone’ with a maximum take-off mass of around 5-6 t. ‘We're going to more than double the mass of the UCAV,’ he says.
‘We're going to more than double that weight in order to carry weapons and achieve a certain range. It will be a big drone.
He refuses to say whether it will be a single-engine or twin-engine aircraft, but specifies that it will have stealth characteristics.
At the same time, Safran Aircraft Engines has launched a programme to increase the thrust of the Rafale's M88 engines.
Known as the T-Rex project, improvements to the engine's hot section will increase thrust beyond the current maximum of 50 kN (11,240 lb) without increasing engine size.
Mr Trappier would not comment on the exact thrust required, but said it was ‘a little more than we had previously envisaged’.
Keeping the same engine size also means that there is no need to change the basic design of the Rafale.
‘It is possible to increase the size of the Rafale slightly, but that is not the way we envisage the [F5] today,’ Trappier explains.
Meanwhile, Dassault aims to deliver 25 multi-role fighters this year - an increase of four units on its 2024 performance - 13 of which will be handed over to the French air force.
Production of the main parts of the aircraft in-house and at some subcontractors is proceeding at what Mr Trappier calls ‘pace 3’ - sufficient to support the production of three aircraft a month - but this has not yet been passed on to the final assembly line at Mérignac.
‘At Mérignac, we need a little time to increase our production’, he explains.
At rate 3, 33 jets would be built in a year - the factory closes every August - and there are also plans to increase the rate to rate 4.
Even higher rates could be achieved if demand allows, he notes.
Mr Trappier remains confident that India will soon contract for 26 Rafale Ms with transport capability for its navy, with the air force also considering a further order to complement the existing fleet of 36 aircraft.
New Delhi's major commitments are likely to require the localisation of production to comply with the ‘Make in India’ programme, which would lead Dassault to ‘open a new assembly line in India to be able to absorb the load’, says Mr Trappier.
France is also considering another batch of up to 30 aircraft for delivery in the 2030s.
Dassault's order book for the Rafale comprises 56 aircraft for France and 164 for export customers, including Indonesia, Serbia and the United Arab Emirates. The first aircraft for the United Arab Emirates recently entered service at Mérignac.
Yep, everything you said last year, now in print.
That drone's definitely single-engine. Common engine + not Rafale-sized.
So F5 in 2030, drone in 2032, and RJ10 in 2035. Not bad at all. It's headed towards much greater export success than the F-35.
UCAV : strange that Trappier didn't want to answer about single or twin engine. Commonality with Rafale engine around a single M88 is interesting with a single M88, but you loose the bird in case of a failure. A dual engine (2 adour NG ?) ease the design of the internal bay and increase the reliability.
RJ10 ? what is that ?
Yeah, I agree, 2 Adours are definitely a stronger option in terms of survivability. But unmanned means, you can take greater risk. And you can ensure commonality and control cost. It's possible he didn't answer because they haven't decided yet.
Engine failure rates have fallen drastically over the last 2 decades. Bird strike, maybe new sensors and lasers can deal with the threat, plus I think a small dorsal inlet reduces that threat by quite a bit, not to mention the S duct and maybe a physical blocker further boosting safety. And battle damage, I'm not very sure about how survivable a stealth drone will be after it's been detected.
All global equivalent drones are SE. So that's the biggest clue for Neuron 2.0 following the same route.
It will be interesting if Dassault is secretly developing a twin-engine fighter drone based around Adour. Then you get commonality in a different sense.
A new hypersonic CM jointly being developed by France and Britain. France's workshare is 90% in RJ10.
And there is another subsonic stealth CM called TP15 where Britain's workshare is 90%.
RJ10 will be Rafale's new SEAD weapon too.
I didn't know it was called RJ10 (sound as a chinese missile name).
It is not really a cruise missile, but a antis ship missile (at least in the first version)
The other project, driven by GB, is to replace SCALP cruise missile. Subsonic, highly stealthy.
Sure. Cruise missile is a general name for something with a jet engine.