Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) : News and Updates

Bali78 said:
Can you elaborate why 180nm chips are more reliable than 22nm ? BTW, 22nm is not latest, 7nm is.
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The smaller spacing between transistor (22nm is spacing) means lesser room for error. Heating by continued usea, slight fluctuations in current etc can cause outage. If the spacing is large, there is more room for error.

No, the latest is 14nm chips. But even these are not fully developed. 22nm is the fully developed technology. 10nk, 7nm etc are simply dreams and are only technology demonstrator projects.
 
pachawry said:
The smaller spacing between transistor (22nm is spacing) means lesser room for error. Heating by continued usea, slight fluctuations in current etc can cause outage. If the spacing is large, there is more room for error.

No, the latest is 14nm chips. But even these are not fully developed. 22nm is the fully developed technology. 10nk, 7nm etc are simply dreams and are only technology demonstrator projects.
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bali78 is working in that field i think.,..
 
pachawry said:
The smaller spacing between transistor (22nm is spacing) means lesser room for error. Heating by continued usea, slight fluctuations in current etc can cause outage. If the spacing is large, there is more room for error.

No, the latest is 14nm chips. But even these are not fully developed. 22nm is the fully developed technology. 10nk, 7nm etc are simply dreams and are only technology demonstrator projects.
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Even if you don't know anything about a subject, simple google search will enable you to have meaningful discussion. But looks like you are not even willing to do that.

Let me fullfil your dreams. Qualcomm Snapdragon 835, which is the apps processor for most of the high end phones is fabricated with TSMC 10 nm and that chip was taped out in 2015. Last year Snapdragon 845 was released which is 10nm and this year SD 855 will be released and most likely it will be in 7nm process.
 
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Most of our strategic processors are built using GaAs, not Silicon. DRDO's processors are designed by ANURAG.
 
Bali78 said:
Even if you don't know anything about a subject, simple google search will enable you to have meaningful discussion. But looks like you are not even willing to do that.

Let me fullfil your dreams. Qualcomm Snapdragon 835, which is the apps processor for most of the high end phones is fabricated with TSMC 10 nm and that chip was taped out in 2015. Last year Snapdragon 845 was released which is 10nm and this year SD 855 will be released and most likely it will be in 7nm process.
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There is a limit beyond which the spacing can't be reduced in order to avoid problems. In some areas or parts of the chips, it is possible to use up to 10nm technology. But even as of now, 14nm technology has not been used to make the full chip. 22nm is the technology still under use for making full chip. Some parts have been replaced by 14nm and in some cases 10nm. But that is not whole picture. 14nm is possible but 10nm is too difficult and 7nm is impossible. 14 nm is the reasonable limit foe commercial production. Just check complete technology of all parts of Q835 chip

Edit - the 10nm, 14nm are not standard. Intel 14nm is equivalent to Qualcomm 10nm and so on. Intel maintains higher standard. I am speaking from the perspective of intel, not Qualcomm.
 
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Bali78 said:
Can you elaborate why 180nm chips are more reliable than 22nm ? BTW, 22nm is not latest, 7nm is.
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Military processors are always behind the latest civilian developments since the equipment built around it requires significantly higher EMC standards and also a lot more impact testing.

So, by the time a military processor hits production, the civilians will have taken a much greater leap forward. A 22nm processor that's released today can be militarised only after 4 or 5 years, after it meets CBRN standards.
 
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randomradio said:
Military processors are always behind the latest civilian developments since the equipment built around it requires significantly higher EMC standards and also a lot more impact testing.

So, by the time a military processor hits production, the civilians will have taken a much greater leap forward. A 22nm processor that's released today can be militarised only after 4 or 5 years, after it meets CBRN standards.
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Military chips don't need to do graphics rendering or other highly intensive activities but just needs to maintain reliability and highly intensive calculation in certain domains. So, the power consumption question doesn't arise. Also, the lower nm technology can't hande intensive usage and hostile condition of operating which is the case in military application. Military items have to run flawlessly in heat of 50 degree Celsius of desert (which is a main battle ground of India) and also work in high altitude and high speed operation of military aircraft.
 
pachawry said:
There is a limit beyond which the spacing can't be reduced in order to avoid problems. In some areas or parts of the chips, it is possible to use up to 10nm technology. But even as of now, 14nm technology has not been used to make the full chip. 22nm is the technology still under use for making full chip. Some parts have been replaced by 14nm and in some cases 10nm. But that is not whole picture. 14nm is possible but 10nm is too difficult and 7nm is impossible. 14 nm is the reasonable limit foe commercial production. Just check complete technology of all parts of Q835 chip
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22nm, 14nm, 10nm etc can't be used selectively in parts of the chip. The entire chip is 22nm or 14 nm or 10 nm etc.
 
randomradio said:
22nm, 14nm, 10nm etc can't be used selectively in parts of the chip. The entire chip is 22nm or 14 nm or 10 nm etc.
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Yes, the Qualcomm 10nm is intel 14nm. 14nm of intel standard is the wall. As of now, 22nm is still in fashion and 14nm is starting to appear.

@Bali78 apparently thinks the standards across companies are same.

About enture chip being 10nm or 7nm, it is possible that some ICs are made in 10nm or 7nm and touted as technology advancement. The main processor chips aren't yet made of 10 or 7nm in intel standard
 
pachawry said:
Yes, the Qualcomm 10nm is intel 14nm. 14nm of intel standard is the wall. As of now, 22nm is still in fashion and 14nm is starting to appear.

@Bali78 apparently thinks the standards across companies are same.
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Nothing you wrote here is correct.

The 14nm standard is 14nm for everyone. Do you even know what this standard means? It's a physical measurement on a transistor.

What you are saying is 1Km in India is different from 1Km in Pakistan.
 
randomradio said:
Nothing you wrote here is correct.

The 14nm standard is 14nm for everyone. Do you even know what this standard means? It's a physical measurement on a transistor.

What you are saying is 1Km in India is different from 1Km in Pakistan.
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Can you explain why intel is not able to get 10nm? Why intel is stuck at 14nm?

I know that 14nk is distance. But the way of measure may be different. Some may include only the distance between core without including gate size etc.
 
pachawry said:
Can you explain why intel is not able to get 10nm? Why intel is stuck at 14nm?
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Intel also has 10nm.

If a company can't build something that's 10nm, then it's their problem. Like how Pakistan can't build a space shuttle.

I know that 14nk is distance. But the way of measure may be different. Some may include only the distance between core without including gate size etc.
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Nope.
 
randomradio said:
Military processors are always behind the latest civilian developments since the equipment built around it requires significantly higher EMC standards and also a lot more impact testing.

So, by the time a military processor hits production, the civilians will have taken a much greater leap forward. A 22nm processor that's released today can be militarised only after 4 or 5 years, after it meets CBRN standards.
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No. It's incorrect. You are getting confused between chip design and system design. The EM compatibility and EM interference you are talking about comes into picture during system design and there are procedures to take care of it. I haven't been involved in that since long time, so can't comment on the latest developments in that domain.

As far as chip is concerned, the ruggedness of the chip is decided during backend library characterization. Every technology node (22nm or 7nm) does support military standards which is typically allow the chip to work from -40 deg to 115 deg C temp at military environment. This is taken care of during the backend process and the processes needs to be run at every corner.
 
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Bali78 said:
No. It's incorrect. You are getting confused between chip design and system design. The EM compatibility and EM interference you are talking about comes into picture during system design and there are procedures to take care of it. I haven't been involved in that since long time, so can't comment on the latest developments in that domain.

As far as chip is concerned, the ruggedness of the chip is decided during backend library characterization. Every technology node (22nm or 7nm) does support military standards which is typically allow the chip to work from -40 deg to 115 deg C temp at military environment. This is taken care of during the backend process and the processes needs to be run at every corner.
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So, are current drdo chips able to fulfill requirements of our armed forces...??
 
pachawry said:
There is a limit beyond which the spacing can't be reduced in order to avoid problems. In some areas or parts of the chips, it is possible to use up to 10nm technology. But even as of now, 14nm technology has not been used to make the full chip. 22nm is the technology still under use for making full chip. Some parts have been replaced by 14nm and in some cases 10nm. But that is not whole picture. 14nm is possible but 10nm is too difficult and 7nm is impossible. 14 nm is the reasonable limit foe commercial production. Just check complete technology of all parts of Q835 chip
.
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What exactly do you think chip fabrication is? Some kind of Lego assembly, where you can add anything anywhere you want?
So far whatever you are claiming is not technologically possible. Had it been possible, it would have made life much easier for people like me.
Regarding SD835, even after giving tapeout year, you are asking me to check it out? Sigh.
 
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Angel Eyes said:
So, are current drdo chips able to fulfill requirements of our armed forces...??
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Depends on what we want. For AESA radars very high processing capacity is required for digital signal processing. Same is true for AI and machine learning. Those processors cannot be done in India.
 
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pachawry said:
Edit - the 10nm, 14nm are not standard. Intel 14nm is equivalent to Qualcomm 10nm and so on. Intel maintains higher standard. I am speaking from the perspective of intel, not Qualcomm.
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Looks like you put some effort in googling, but not enough. Higher standard 😂😂?? Btw Qualcomm is fabless and it uses TSMC for fabrication.
 
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