Explosion near Red Fort: At least 9 dead, several injured in blast

Well, killing Munir is much more reliable than killing Hafiz or Azhar. He has a home, he has a known family. He has known investments. He controls things that are much more visible. Finding and killing Hafiz and Azhar is much harder because they are basically nobodies and can hide anywhere.

Pak might be a beggar state, but Munir is still the defacto supremo of that state. Nuetreralising him is not equal to nuteralise-ing leadership of Hamas. Both are worlds apart, both in significance and the difficulty of it.
Go ask a serving officer in army preparing for war. Ask him if it's that easy as you claim it to be. Israel attacked hamas leaders in Qatar, but did they attack emir of Qatar? The one who backs them. And we are talking about a non-nuclear Qatar. US the hegemon have refrained from killing Kim Jong un since decades. Was it for a lack of desire? Nah. These things are easy to say.

OTOH, Hafiz, no matter how big, is still a tool of pak military and his protection will reflect that. For people in the know, he might not be significant, but for a jihadi both inside and across the border.. he means the world.

So, let's take a deep breath and think before setting the expectation so high that it would require more than even a "full blown war". Dial back to Last time a leader of near peer adversary state was killed by another state. Iraq and Libya doesn't count. Hitler would.

If he was even just isi head.. it would do. But if you think India US relations are frosty now, you better brave yourself for bigger than russian sanctions. We are growing and building stronger and atmanirbhar bharat, that doesn't mean that we are there yet. US is still the leading state with China following behind. When 2047 "developed" India vision comes to frutition, then you may start setting such expectations.
For us, the biggest headache will be Pakistan unless we deal with it. And as Mao said, punish one teach a hundred.
Pakistan isnt a nation. It's an idea. If you break one Pakistan.. there are mini Pakistan operating inside the borders, waiting for demographic majority.
 
IAF, to the best of my knowledge does not have a dedicated EW platform like EA-18G Growler nor it does have a dedicated jamming aircraft like Pakistan's "Blinders". I am more than happy to be corrected on this, if someone more knowledigble can point me to right sources or threads.

What, to the best of my knowledge we have are ground based jammers and self protection jammers.

I am not really sure what happened with PL-15 because details are still limited but my educated guess would be that PL-15s were diverted to a large extant using our fighters SPJs.

What we did not have was somethign that could completely prevent PAF from even targetting our planes by denying it a radar lock. Something like a dedicated jamming platform.

Alternatively, we could have fielded a home on jam missile to take out the jammers in the sky.
PLAAF revealed their Growler version on J11 or J16 (I forgot) only few years back despite the scale of their electronics industry and their expertise in RF technology. India perhaps now possesses the capability to make such jammers. But the fact IAF has no SIGINT planes even is as criminal as it is unfortunate. As is the case with AWACS. Now there were some saying that IAF was more influenced by Soviet doctrine which perhaps emphasized aircraft guided by ground controllers and SAMs instead of the US doctrine of aircraft guided by AWACS. Pakistan being a US ally and training with USAF probably adopted the latters method more quickly than we have. If you see other countries historically influenced by Soviet and using their tech this seems ro be the case, except China which understood the potency of AWACS and started a massive national push to develop them from the 1990s along with SIGINT and EW planes.

China was also helped massively in the airborne SIGINT area when a dumb ch*nk pilot crashed into a USAF SIGINT plane midair which forced it to make an emergency landing in China, after which you can guess what the Chinese did to the sigint plane lol.

Now IAF seems to be placing importance on networked assets, AWACS, SIGINT planes but it will take time to develop these platforms.
 
US government doesn't fund most of the R&D there though.....You should be asking the question to our corporates what are they doing with all that money despite lower corporate taxes on them. Why are they not recruiting those PhD guys? Why are they not funding R&D in our Universities like their American counterparts? Why are these corporates not partnering with Universities? Why only the government has been carrying the burden of funding R&D since time immemorial?
View attachment 48033
Guess what which sector most of private R&D happens in India? Pharmaceuticals and recently defence. That's it

Look at China, it's a communist country (although their economy is corporatist) yet majority of their R&D funding comes from private companies.
Here you go:

The term "deep tech" has been present for decades,("Deep tech - Wikipedia") representing R&D divisions at major defense and telecommunications corporations such as Raytheon Technologies, Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works, and Bell Labs, to the more modern definition which increasingly includes companies found in the venture capital ecosystem or awardees of the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) program, a U.S. government program, coordinated by the Small Business Administration, that provides $2.5 Billion annually to small, U.S.-owned companies who compete for funding to develop and commercialize disruptive technologies.

Funds are obtained by allocating a certain percentage of the total extramural (R&D) budgets of the 11 federal agencies with extramural research budgets in excess of $100 million. Approximately $2.5 billion is awarded through this program each year. The United States Department of Defense (DoD) is the largest agency in this program with approximately $1 billion in SBIR grants annually. Over half the awards from the DoD are to firms with fewer than 25 people and a third to firms of fewer than 10. A fifth are minority or women-owned businesses. Historically a quarter of the companies receiving grants are receiving them for the first time.

..............................

Why not recruiting those PHD guys is for the reason Subgradwalker has already clarified. They are for the name sake PHD, otherwise not even fit to be a clerk.
 
Last edited:
Ek baat bolu.. 90% of those unemployed PHD holders don't deserve the role needed to advance the field they are expert in

That is true but then this is where we lack to establish a relevant skill enhancing area. The PHD in India is a copy paste tamasha. One solution will be to involve Bureau of Indian standards and Charted Engineers into manufacturing field at least.
 
Evidence? Again extraordinary claims like these requires extraordinary data to back it up. Is BRO making third grade roads? Is Indian railways making third grade railway line? If so where? What is the evidence? I not saying that is there is no corruption in infrastructure project. Ofc there is corruption. I'm just saying passing off such generic statement means nothing if it's not about a specific project without any evidence to back it up.

Kehne ko to mein bhi bol sakta hoon "Corruption ho raha hai".

I am not saying, the Railway minister himself is saying after getting frustrated

“The time for incremental improvement is gone,” he said. “I urge all track equipment manufacturers to improve processes in manufacturing, quality control, material selection, procurement, heat treatment of materials, final assembly, etc.

Read more at: Ashwini Vaishnaw Warns Railway Manufacturers: ‘Focus On Quality Or Face Blacklisting’
Copyright © NDTV Profit

There are already over 19000 complaints of substandard food quality offered by the Indian railways.



poor quality of stone matic asphalt is being used and also the Bureau of Indian Standard's regulation are not being followed. IIT Kharagpur analyzed the roads and said the preferable parameter and using adequate material was ignored.

This is just a starting, in next 10 years there will be massive issue of your residential societies which you have bought for crores will be inspected by the engineers by respected authorities and if found to be made of substandard material then bro you can imagine how bad it could get.

--

This is the result of fake Btech and BSc and useless PHD holders designing Indian infrastructure. But I will not generalize it. Sometimes I think Indian airforce does the right thing by not buying made in India stuff and delaying it unless until they are satisfied with the quality of the equipment.

These so called technical experts and others on defence forums talk a lot but when it comes to manufacturing and quality control of the equipment it Lull/0 undefined lull. This is the reality of our country.
 
This is the result of fake Btech and BSc and useless PHD holders designing Indian infrastructure. But I will not generalize it. Sometimes I think Indian airforce does the right thing by not buying made in India stuff and delaying it unless until they are satisfied with the quality of the equipment.
I do agree with you that we have problem of lax quality control however I think that's a gross generalization. You have to remember quality control norms in civilian sector is not the same as the quality control measures in the defence sector. Example BRO has much stricter quality control compared to NHAI. Ofc, there can still be horrible quality control cough cough OFB. But we can't generalise every private manufacturer and PSU for their past antics. Anyways I don't think IAF has same level of distrust about our indigenous products as people like to think. There have been multiple articles written by ex-IAF in favour of Indigenous products and their development too. And again quality control of your own product is very much possible at production, you can identify and rectify problem as per your own whims unlike import products. Cough cough Mig-25 saga.
 
That is true but then this is where we lack to establish a relevant skill enhancing area. The PHD in India is a copy paste tamasha. One solution will be to involve Bureau of Indian standards and Charted Engineers into manufacturing field at least.

We need to revamp the accreditation criteria of universities. UGC has become an outdated body run by people who have failed to keep up with the world. Chai Samosa takes precedence over quality of education. If your campus is big enough, with students being enrolled to fill seats.. bingo.. you can be a "leading" University. It doesn't matter if the said universities even have the machines/tools/equipment to teach kids the course. Just usual parroting and 12th Grade experiments. Changing the criteria will atleast start reflecting the true state of Indian universities, making people aware and pushing universities to move beyond land grabs and maybe towards grabbing latest machines.

I am not even kidding. I was appalled at the state of JECRC jaipur which comes under one of the leading University of 'CAPITAL' of Rajasthan. They taught us things by mandating to pencil down everything said by teacher from their "notes" and experiments that a US kid would have likely done in his garage at 14. I ofcourse dropped out. Basically, connect wire, take readings whoosh. B.TECH in India is a joke. That leaves M.Tech to cover basic aspects too. Making it inefficient as a M.TECH. which obviously reflects in PhD studies too. The lack of resources to pursue a research program in 99% of the uni is also a glaring problem with India.


But then, its also due to the poor state of manufacturing India found itself in. Even today, with all the progress, advanced manufacturing and production alludes us. It will change with units being set up. But you are looking at a backlog of 40-50 years.

Manufacturing is important cause it reduces the cost of tools needed by institutions. Also, the fact that not everything is even available on market.
That's why student led R&D gets limited to 3-4 IITs, IISc and few other institutions barely crossing double digit mark. Cause govt provides funds and connnection to them to have those resources. Example, An IIT professor can apply for advanced centrifuge and get approval from the foreign company. But a professor from JECRC won't even know where to start. Let alone the kids.

A vicious cycle which needs constant efforts from GOI to end this cycle and usher into "atma-nirbhar" bharat. So, anyone criticising the initiative or questioning it's significance... This is just the tiniest of what it means to be self independent. It's not about just making own S-400. It's also about making our own chemicals, vaccines, CNC machines, heck.. a syringe! PPE kits, The Bandaids...

Look at the figures. India was deeply fragile till just 25 years ago. 2000-2013 saw independence in low level software domain and final products FMCG sector. Then look at the work since last 10. you will find how much dependent we still are on others for basic things even and how much we have covered the ground. Then you might realise the significance of make in India, it's progress and the GOIs vision. Otherwise TATA was east Indian company with Indian license before 1991. Extract, Process, export, import final products. Syringes came from China, cars from Japan, coldrinks from USA.

Every month there's a new narrative, new attempt to stall the progress, Raghu Ranjan predicting downfall every quater.. but ever thought, why still we keep moving forward? Cause while I-phone assembly and Hammers make the headlines.. the syringes, APIs ( Active pharmaceutical ingredients) , toys ( plastic production, technology, marketing, designing), PPE kits, nuts... The list is looking... They don't make headlines. But units and clusters keep coming up away from spotlight.. making us resilient and atmanirbhar slowly and steadily.

So, no.. we are not being vocal and doing band baja baraat sunlike China. We are making noise only to attract investment and attention in Big and advanced things that we need help to catch up to. The real deal is happening away from noise. The foundation. It gets lost in the blanket terms of "electronics production", " defense production". And that's good. Cause we have still 100x to cover to catch up. And that's where the govt needs to be pushed. To fasten it. But who will push them? The opposition would rather derail govt away from it with the kind of opposition India finds itself dealing with. The Anti-development and pro-naxal mindset of theirs.

Sorry I got derailed. I recently searched for opportunities under "import substitution" and realised the quagmire India was in , is in and will remain in if we keep mocking the very things we need and if old guard ever comes back.

Dhanyawad.
 
Pakistan isnt a nation. It's an idea. If you break one Pakistan.. there are mini Pakistan operating inside the borders, waiting for demographic majority.
Mini Pakistans are supported militarily by Pakistan by providing them with weapons and space for voices. You take out the Pakistan, you give the wanna bes and mini such a big shock that they will fall in place. You take out Pakistan, Bangladesh will surrender. You take out Pakistan, remaining mini Pakistan will start behaving immediately.

And to take out Pakistan, you need to kill its military leadership. You need to ensure that military leadership does not remain aspirational goal for its populace. You need to ensure they dump military fully.
 
Last edited:
PLAAF revealed their Growler version on J11 or J16 (I forgot) only few years back despite the scale of their electronics industry and their expertise in RF technology. India perhaps now possesses the capability to make such jammers. But the fact IAF has no SIGINT planes even is as criminal as it is unfortunate. As is the case with AWACS. Now there were some saying that IAF was more influenced by Soviet doctrine which perhaps emphasized aircraft guided by ground controllers and SAMs instead of the US doctrine of aircraft guided by AWACS. Pakistan being a US ally and training with USAF probably adopted the latters method more quickly than we have. If you see other countries historically influenced by Soviet and using their tech this seems ro be the case, except China which understood the potency of AWACS and started a massive national push to develop them from the 1990s along with SIGINT and EW planes.

China was also helped massively in the airborne SIGINT area when a dumb ch*nk pilot crashed into a USAF SIGINT plane midair which forced it to make an emergency landing in China, after which you can guess what the Chinese did to the sigint plane lol.

Now IAF seems to be placing importance on networked assets, AWACS, SIGINT planes but it will take time to develop these platforms.
Pakistani jammers are essentially Chinese ones flying on a dated Pakistani aircraft. It was inducted sometimes in 2010s. These are dedicated jammers.

India can atleast induct similar platform from Israel or France.

5-10 Large scale jammers on Bombadier Global Express will do the trick.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RationalGuy
Pakistani jammers are essentially Chinese ones flying on a dated Pakistani aircraft. It was inducted sometimes in 2010s. These are dedicated jammers.

India can atleast induct similar platform from Israel or France.

5-10 Large scale jammers on Bombadier Global Express will do the trick.
By the time babugiri completes process of even ordering them, our domestic versions may even be ready 🤪. Bofors scandle still gives PTSD to gobermint and its babooncracy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shan and spice
By the time babugiri completes process of even ordering them, our domestic versions may even be ready 🤪. Bofors scandle still gives PTSD to gobermint and its babooncracy.
Well the user themselves have to show the interest first for the project to even start. DRDO has made concept for such platform since a long time. IAF itself rejected a proposal from DRDO-HAL in 2010. And since then nothing has happened in this front. Although the platform was based on Jaguar, so it makes sense why IAF rejected.
 
By the time babugiri completes process of even ordering them, our domestic versions may even be ready 🤪. Bofors scandle still gives PTSD to gobermint and its babooncracy.
Actually, this should have happened after 2019. God knows how IAF and Babudom works. Its not that expensive as well. Jammer themselves are pretty inexpensive and so is second hand planes. Bombadier will happily modify the planes as it is a Canadian company always looking for work, its engines are non US engines and it flies 51000 feet, much higher than 41000 feet of airbus A321. It had been used as a AWACS / EW platform in past too.

On second hand market a Global Express can be purchased for 30 million dollars. 10 for 300 million. say 100 million to modify them all. And jammer equipment costs 100 million dollars a piece.

You are looking at 1.4 billion dollars for 10 dedicated EW planes with 11-12 hours of duty cycle.

Its not an year worth of project.

Well the user themselves have to show the interest first for the project to even start. DRDO has made concept for such platform since a long time. IAF itself rejected a proposal from DRDO-HAL in 2010. And since then nothing has happened in this front. Although the platform was based on Jaguar, so it makes sense why IAF rejected.

We have a toxic culture of underutilizing budget in forces. Force are rewarded for not winning but underutilizing budgets.
 
Actually, this should have happened after 2019. God knows how IAF and Babudom works. Its not that expensive as well. Jammer themselves are pretty inexpensive and so is second hand planes. Bombadier will happily modify the planes as it is a Canadian company always looking for work, its engines are non US engines and it flies 51000 feet, much higher than 41000 feet of airbus A321. It had been used as a AWACS / EW platform in past too.

On second hand market a Global Express can be purchased for 30 million dollars. 10 for 300 million. say 100 million to modify them all. And jammer equipment costs 100 million dollars a piece.

You are looking at 1.4 billion dollars for 10 dedicated EW planes with 11-12 hours of duty cycle.

Its not an year worth of project.



We have a toxic culture of underutilizing budget in forces. Force are rewarded for not winning but underutilizing budgets.
I don't think they are rewarded. It's just the system is setup in a way that underutilization is just not discouraged cuz the remaining allocated fund can roll-on to next year post-2016 reforms. So forces can do that and then face no consequence.
 
Actually, this should have happened after 2019. God knows how IAF and Babudom works. Its not that expensive as well. Jammer themselves are pretty inexpensive and so is second hand planes. Bombadier will happily modify the planes as it is a Canadian company always looking for work, its engines are non US engines and it flies 51000 feet, much higher than 41000 feet of airbus A321. It had been used as a AWACS / EW platform in past too.

On second hand market a Global Express can be purchased for 30 million dollars. 10 for 300 million. say 100 million to modify them all. And jammer equipment costs 100 million dollars a piece.

You are looking at 1.4 billion dollars for 10 dedicated EW planes with 11-12 hours of duty cycle.

Its not an year worth of project.



We have a toxic culture of underutilizing budget in forces. Force are rewarded for not winning but underutilizing budgets.
Our IAF can propose such a things but it seems the legend of them loving imported silver bullets is indeed true.
 
Our IAF can propose such a things but it seems the legend of them loving imported silver bullets is indeed true.
We should import jammers from Elbit. They make excellent ones. meanwhile ask DRDO to make our own too. 5 from Elbit and 5 DRDO. DRDO can take its time and will be evaluated against ELbit ones.

Both can use same platform : Global Express from Bombardier.
 
We should import jammers from Elbit. They make excellent ones. meanwhile ask DRDO to make our own too. 5 from Elbit and 5 DRDO. DRDO can take its time and will be evaluated against ELbit ones.

Both can use same platform : Global Express from Bombardier.
Adani be like: meri jeeb lablabaye. JK.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aniruddha

Amrullah Saleh was the intelligence chief of Afghanistan. Under him, the Afghan intelligence agency was able to penetrate the Taliban and Pakistani ISI. He knew every cunning scheme dreamt up by the Pakistanis to destroy the chances of peace in Afghanistan and to drive out the Americans.

Saleh tried his best to warn the Americans that the only way they could succeed in Afghanistan was by neutralising Pakistan and ending their involvement. However, the entire American establishment ignored him and under Pakistani pressure got President Karzai to remove him.

Saleh was brilliant, sophisticated and secular. Had the Americans listened to him, they wouldn't have faced the ignominious exit from Afghanistan.

In this post he makes a very valid observation on the mindset of Islamic terrorists. The irony is that peaceful Muslim leaders such as Saleh, Prince Salman of Saudi Arabia and the Emirs of UAE know this, but the West won't listen to them because the average Judeo Christian Westerner prefers to deal with the radicalised Islamist rather than the secular Muslim.