Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

randomradio said:
All jets are upgraded, even the ones with other agencies. Other agencies have been assigned multiple MKIs already. DRDO has 2.
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That's not the point. You are asking about one missing MKI from MoD's RFP and assuming that it was shot down last year which is completely wrong. No MKI was shot down last year and was our ONLY frontline jet that dodged all PL-15s & HQ-9s.

Regarding one missing MKI, you can search about SB-025 that is permanently stationed at ASTE in Bengaluru. It is not counted as part of active combat fleet as it's a permanent fixture there as part of our avionics test-bed.
 
Rajput Lion said:
That's not the point. You are asking about one missing MKI from MoD's RFP and assuming that it was shot down last year which is completely wrong. No MKI was shot down last year and was our ONLY frontline jet that dodged all PL-15s & HQ-9s.

Regarding one missing MKI, you can search about SB-025 that is permanently stationed at ASTE in Bengaluru. It is not counted as part of active combat fleet as it's a permanent fixture there as part of our avionics test-bed.
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That's one of the first jets to be upgraded. Once upgrades clear ASTE evaluations do all other MKIs get the same upgrade.
 
randomradio said:
That's one of the first jets to be upgraded. Once upgrades clear ASTE evaluations do all other MKIs get the same upgrade.
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Of course, 'cause it's "solely used for flight certification". That's the point. But it's not part of 258 active-combat fleet(as it is permamently stationed in ASTE ever since it was modified to carry air-launched BrahMos certification). Hence not mentioned in the RFP. The demand is of 300 Navigational anti-jam systems, remember and not just 258. The extra systems are ordered because you need them for flight-certification and attrition.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Of course, 'cause it's "solely used for flight certification". That's the point. But it's not part of 258 active-combat fleet(as it is permamently stationed in ASTE ever since it was modified to carry air-launched BrahMos certification). Hence not mentioned in the RFP. The demand is of 300 Navigational anti-jam systems, remember and not just 258. The extra systems are ordered because you need them for flight-certification and attrition.
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All jets are part of the fleet, even the ones requisitioned by others for R&D.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

SU-30MKI: India floats RFP to upgrade 258 Su-30MKI fighters with anti-jamming navigation system | - The Times of India

Defence News: NEW DELHI: In a move aimed at strengthening the electronic warfare capabilities of the IAF's workhorse fighter jets, the defence ministry has issued a.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com
The IAF currently operates about 258 Su-30MKI fighter aircraft...

The upgrade is aimed at enhancing the capability and reach of the existing Su-30MKI...

This is basically a reveal of the actual numbers. There is no special jet placed outside the ownership of the IAF.
 
randomradio said:
All jets are part of the fleet, even the ones requisitioned by others for R&D.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

SU-30MKI: India floats RFP to upgrade 258 Su-30MKI fighters with anti-jamming navigation system | - The Times of India

Defence News: NEW DELHI: In a move aimed at strengthening the electronic warfare capabilities of the IAF's workhorse fighter jets, the defence ministry has issued a.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com
The IAF currently operates about 258 Su-30MKI fighter aircraft...

The upgrade is aimed at enhancing the capability and reach of the existing Su-30MKI...

This is basically a reveal of the actual numbers. There is no special jet placed outside the ownership of the IAF.
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Yes, SB-025 is permanently assigned to ASTE since quite some time and is NOT part of active IAF combat fleet of 258 jets. So 258 IAF MKIs + 1 ASTE MKI = 259. Case closed.
 
randomradio said:
Lol. Why don't you try and find out what ASTE actually does first.
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You may believe that one MKI was shot down last year but since there was no pictorial evidence unlike Rafale, M-2000, Mig-29UPG. & Heron wreckage, it is clear that no MKI was shot down.

ASTE does testing of all new software, avionics, weapons etc. and they indeed have access to one MKI(as dedicated testbed for new software/avionics/weapons etc.) which is not part of active MKI fleet but just used for testing. You don't believe it, so be it👍
 
Rajput Lion said:
You may believe that one MKI was shot down last year but since there was no pictorial evidence unlike Rafale, M-2000, Mig-29UPG. & Heron wreckage, it is clear that no MKI was shot down.

ASTE does testing of all new software, avionics, weapons etc. and they indeed have access to one MKI(as dedicated testbed for new software/avionics/weapons etc.) which is not part of active MKI fleet but just used for testing. You don't believe it, so be it👍
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So ASTE jet is not part of the fleet, but MKIs assigned to DRDO are?
 
randomradio said:
So ASTE jet is not part of the fleet, but MKIs assigned to DRDO are?
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That's not the point. Multiple MKIs that are part of active-fleet are tasked for FTB duties. But the one I'm talking about is not used by IAF anymore as a combat jet and is a dedicated test-aircraft for various software, weapons, RWR etc., upgrades/tests.

Anyways, as per analysis by OSINT, there were 4 crash sites during May 8-10 inside India and pictorial wreckage evidence proves that they were of Rafale, M-2000, Mig-29UPG. and Heron MK2. There was no other crash-site apart from these whatsoever(even high-altitude shotdown would result in huge debris field which can't escape views inside India). So even if 1 MKI is missing, it doesn't mean it was shot down by PAF last year.
 
Rajput Lion said:
That's not the point. Multiple MKIs that are part of active-fleet are tasked for FTB duties. But the one I'm talking about is not used by IAF anymore as a combat jet and is a dedicated test-aircraft for various software, weapons, RWR etc., upgrades/tests.

Anyways, as per analysis by OSINT, there were 4 crash sites during May 8-10 inside India and pictorial wreckage evidence proves that they were of Rafale, M-2000, Mig-29UPG. and Heron MK2. There was no other crash-site apart from these whatsoever(even high-altitude shotdown would result in huge debris field which can't escape views inside India). So even if 1 MKI is missing, it doesn't mean it was shot down by PAF last year.
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One's missing in the total tally. Since we do not know if there's another crash site, we will have to wait for news to come through.

Sure, we can say it wasn't shot down, but we cannot dismiss it outtright. And it's definitely not a peacetime loss due to our own reporting rules. And sure, it may not be a combat loss, it could be a technical crash or pilot error. Whatever the case, 1 is missing.

Btw, ASTE has 2 jets. These jets are operationally part of the IAF, but jets are separately allocated to other departments for testing and upgrades. And all upgrades are first done to ASTE-operated jets before they are added to squadron units. So the 258 include these 2 jets. Overall multiple MKIs have been assigned at different levels. And it's not permanent.
 
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randomradio said:
One's missing in the total tally. Since we do not know if there's another crash site, we will have to wait for news to come through.

Sure, we can say it wasn't shot down, but we cannot dismiss it outtright. And it's definitely not a peacetime loss due to our own reporting rules. And sure, it may not be a combat loss, it could be a technical crash or pilot error. Whatever the case, 1 is missing.

Btw, ASTE has 2 jets. These jets are operationally part of the IAF, but jets are separately allocated to other departments for testing and upgrades. And all upgrades are first done to ASTE-operated jets before they are added to squadron units. So the 258 include these 2 jets. Overall multiple MKIs have been assigned at different levels. And it's not permanent.
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Crash or no crash, no MKI was shot down last year. It's a well established fact based upon pictorial analysis of all 4 crash sites and even the Indian/Pakistani/Worldwide OSINT could not find a 5th crash site within India. Most saw wreckage of Heron drone with large twin rudders at Akhnoor and confused it with MKI.

Even if one is missing, it could be because of some other reason, one of which I already have given and there could be more too.

PS: It was MKI's superlative air-to-air and strike capabilities during last skirmish which sealed the deal and paved the way for Su-57 in IAF.
 
randomradio said:
Sindoor.


We now know we lost 3 aircraft. 2 were definitely shot down. 1 either crashed or was shot down.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/2069140353605595554
Rajput Lion said:
Crash or no crash, no MKI was shot down last year. It's a well established fact based upon pictorial analysis of all 4 crash sites and even the Indian/Pakistani/Worldwide OSINT could not find a 5th crash site within India. Most saw wreckage of Heron drone with large twin rudders at Akhnoor and confused it with MKI.

Even if one is missing, it could be because of some other reason, one of which I already have given and there could be more too.

PS: It was MKI's superlative air-to-air and strike capabilities during last skirmish which sealed the deal and paved the way for Su-57 in IAF.
Click to expand...
 
July 22, 2026

Post-SCAF: Dassault Aviation targets first flight in five years​


Following the failure of the European program, the French manufacturer is setting its sights on a sixth-generation aircraft capable of meeting national needs, with the rapid development of a demonstrator.

Although Dassault Aviation reported promising results for the first half of 2026, it was the indications regarding the post-SCAF era that drew the most scrutiny this Wednesday. On this front, Éric Trappier, the aircraft manufacturer’s CEO, announced a goal to have a demonstrator fly early in the coming decade.

"Discussions are underway to launch an alternative with France," the executive explained, specifying that the future program would be "an all-French initiative initially, or a cooperative effort with those wishing to join the demonstrator project." Like their former partners in the Future Combat Air System (SCAF) project, Dassault Aviation and France have no intention of wasting any more time and are moving to pivot toward a new program. While this was already widely anticipated, the statement serves as official confirmation.

The key news lies primarily in the timeline. Whereas the SCAF was scheduled to fly in 2029, the manufacturer's chief stated: "The goal is to build a demonstrator based on French requirements that could fly in the early 2031–2032 timeframe."

Which partner?
When asked about potential partnerships for this future program, Dassault Aviation’s CEO emphasized that he was open to proposals, while remaining non-committal regarding any specific ongoing discussions. "I have nothing to say about Sweden today. I am open to countries that might wish to cooperate. I think a two-way, 50-50 partnership is better than a three-way split—one-third versus two-thirds—where I get only a third," remarked Éric Trappier, unable to resist revisiting the source of the disagreement regarding the division of tasks with Airbus.

He also ruled out cooperating with Airbus again on a new fighter jet, stating that "the whole NGF [Next Generation Fighter, intended to be the core of the FCAS] and Dassault-Airbus affair is behind us."

Éric Trappier further noted that the "contractual termination of the FCAS is underway" and is imminent. This would finalize the program's wind-down process, initiated in early June by German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and French President Emmanuel Macron. /END
 
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He can say what he likes and even lie to a journalist, France doesn't have the money to do it alone

To the gov, he said, We don't have the money, So we will polish the Rafale and call it Super Rafale as plan B

"Dassault can work with partners, even outside Europe, as long as the rules are set from the beginning. In his words: "We can do it alone, that's possible, or we can find partners." He added: "I'm not saying we necessarily have the financial means to do it alone."

Dassault, in the words of its CEO, does not refuse to cooperate. It rejects cooperation in which industrial leadership is diluted,"

France = You buy the flour, eggs and butter, We will buy the water and eat the cake, You can have the crumbs on the plate
 
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