GTRE Kaveri Engine

_Anonymous_ · Jul 10, 2020

Sathya said:
From our forum, I think we are going for both engines, Safran helping with our Kaveri.
RR for a new 110KN.

I hope we pursue both to avoid delay / failure.

Kaveri program has been shutdown. Plans were to certify K-9 by getting it modified as per SAFRAN's recommendations , then get it flight tested & certified. K10 was supposed to follow which probably would have been the MLU replacements for LCA Mk1/Mk1a. Now one doesn't know what's happening at that end.

Let's hope both programs run simultaneously. Our need for engines on this front is going to be tremendous & a huge drain on the exchequer in the forthcoming 2-3 decades if we only rely on imports.

Sathya · Jul 10, 2020

_Anonymous_ said:
Kaveri program has been shutdown. Plans were to certify K-9 by getting it modified as per SAFRAN's recommendations , then get it flight tested & certified. K10 was supposed to follow which probably would have been the MLU replacements for LCA Mk1/Mk1a. Now one doesn't know what's happening at that end.

Let's hope both programs run simultaneously. Our need for engines on this front is going to be tremendous & a huge drain on the exchequer in the forthcoming 2-3 decades if we only rely on imports.

Statfront twitter Retweeted Safron offer of last year, today.
Not sure why..

_Anonymous_ · Jul 10, 2020

Sathya said:
Statfront twitter Retweeted Safron offer of last year, today.
Not sure why..

Ask Eshwin.

Nikhil · Jul 10, 2020

@cyberwar how much KW power this 110KN+ engine will provide...any estimate ?

Sathya · Jul 10, 2020

Nikhil said:
@cyberwar how much KW power this 110KN+ engine will provide...any estimate ?

We can draw how much ever we want by having appropriate equipment right?
@Milspec

randomradio · Jul 10, 2020

vvabhiram said:
India-UK to work jointly in jet engine development

Since India prefers a government to government route, the two sides are keen to have the framework for future defence deals soon as the jet engine agreement is expected soon.

www.financialexpress.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281557443894370306

I just pray that something materialises and we get the technical know-how to build the goddamn jet engine.

The article doesn't make clear what the JV is about. It's possible the British will be our primary partners though, but I'm just speculating. TVC will be developed with the help of Klimov.

So the AMCA will get an engine made with British help while LCA and MWF will get their future engines with French assistance, the way things are going.

randomradio · Jul 10, 2020

_Anonymous_ said:
Apparently that's what the article quoted says. To elaborate, RR & UK would help us in developing a 110 KN engine, possibly to power the AMCA. Perhaps that explains why GoI was sitting on the proposal by SAFRAN as it didn't go beyond suggestions of GTRE utilising the M-88 core & perhaps SAFRAN retaining the IPR thus making it's utilisation subject to royalty. That & the hefty fee they were asking for with no tangible long term benefits in terms of ToT or IPR.Wonder what happens to off sets committed by SAFRAN now? Any ideas? @Picdelamirand-oil ; @randomradio ; @vstol Jockey

I told ya already, there are two separate engine projects being developed through JVs. One with the French, and the other is this one. With both, we are gonna get full IPR. And it's not one or the other, both engine projects are necessary.

As for the K-10, the French claim the offsets are not enough to pay for the engine, so let's see what happens there.

_Anonymous_ · Jul 10, 2020

randomradio said:
I told ya already, there are two separate engine projects being developed through JVs. One with the French, and the other is this one. With both, we are gonna get full IPR. And it's not one or the other, both engine projects are necessary.

As for the K-10, the French claim the offsets are not enough to pay for the engine, so let's see what happens there.

I don't think SAFRAN's proposal included IPR for the simple reason they're recommending usage of the M-88 core with suitable uprating. In many ways it's a rehash of what they proposed in 2010 , a proposal which DRDO / GTRE accepted but IAF shot down .

Sathya · Jul 10, 2020

What's with timing of a announcement,
RD 93MA for JF17
Vs
Now RR for us, though this going to take a decade to be fruitful.

Something from Safran in short time should be ideal.

Is it possible to have GE 404 EPE like GE414 EPE?

@Gautam
@randomradio

randomradio · Jul 10, 2020

_Anonymous_ said:
I don't think SAFRAN's proposal included IPR for the simple reason they're recommending usage of the M-88 core with suitable uprating. In many ways it's a rehash of what they proposed in 2010 , a proposal which DRDO / GTRE accepted but IAF shot down .

Yes, it's a continuation of the old deal, which the IAF in all their stupidity shot down.

AFAIK, the high thrust core's IPR is up for sale to us. And they are willing to sell the core design since it's not the same design used in the Rafale. Basically, this new core is of no use to the French. The Rafale uses a different core that generates thrust up to 75KN and can be uprated to 83KN. The core we want is bigger will generate thrust over 90KN. The price of this IPR is what's the bone of contention now.

randomradio · Jul 10, 2020

Sathya said:
What's with timing of a announcement,
RD 93MA for JF17
Vs
Now RR for us, though this going to take a decade to be fruitful.

The engine has to be designed from scratch.

Something from Safran in short time should be ideal.

Yep. The SAFRAN deal is the quickest way for us to get our hands on "usable" engine tech along with the certification experience. But we also have our own engine tech. It's not like we don't, it's just that it's been designed for smaller aircraft.

Is it possible to have GE 404 EPE like GE414 EPE?

@Gautam
@randomradio

The cost is gonna be extremely prohibitive for such a small production order.

Vicky · Jul 11, 2020

Sathya said:
What's with timing of a announcement,
RD 93MA for JF17
Vs
Now RR for us, though this going to take a decade to be fruitful.

Something from Safran in short time should be ideal.

Is it possible to have GE 404 EPE like GE414 EPE?

@Gautam
@randomradio

The French themselves do not have an engine with 90Kn potential. The max they have is M88 with 75KN one. India needs two. One 90 and another 98KN for Tejas programmes. So they have to develop an engine with us. But it seems they are quoting more to develop and also again not planning to share the IP of the core.

Gautam · Jul 11, 2020

3D printed anti-icing assembly on the variable inlet guide vanes & front bearing of the drive shaft assembly for the Kaveri jet engine. GTRE re-designed the fan for inlet pressure distortion tolerance as will be seen with the use of serpentine intakes on Ghatak UCAV & AMCA.

Milspec · Jul 11, 2020

Sathya said:
We can draw how much ever we want by having appropriate equipment right?
@Milspec

yes, but you will reach the point of diminishing returns at one point from aviation perspective.

Hydra · Jul 12, 2020

Finally

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281856250163064833

amit19 · Jul 13, 2020

Hydra said:
Finally

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281856250163064833

This is a bad news for Rafale camp. At max another 36 will be ordered and then full stop.

_Anonymous_ · Jul 13, 2020

amit19 said:
This is a bad news for Rafale camp. At max another 36 will be ordered and then full stop.

Why? That aircraft engine will take 15 years to be certified & in all probability is meant for the AMCA. SAFRAN's collaboration will be sought for the K-10. They'd serve as replacements for the GE engines come MLU on LCA / MWF / TEDBF. Two different needs, two different programs.

_Anonymous_ · Jul 13, 2020

Picdelamirand-oil · Jul 16, 2020

_Anonymous_ said:
I don't think SAFRAN's proposal included IPR for the simple reason they're recommending usage of the M-88 core with suitable uprating. In many ways it's a rehash of what they proposed in 2010 , a proposal which DRDO / GTRE accepted but IAF shot down .

Look at the picture