Currently qualified life is 3000 hours, should increase to 4000-6000 hours. The F404 should be able to manage 6000 hours. And we use the most modern version of the F404 yet.
Currently qualified life is 3000 hours, should increase to 4000-6000 hours. The F404 should be able to manage 6000 hours. And we use the most modern version of the F404 yet.
That is not a very promising statement. Don't you think that by whatever means India needs to be in the league of building next-gen engines for war machines and for civilian use purpose.
Similar to the need for building the latest gen Silicon devices to manufacturing the end products.
I think this could happen in the next 10-15 years.
Yes, it could happen in the next 10-15 years. But for programs of the future, we need engines today. For both Mk1A and Mk2, we needed their respective engines to have been ready 2 years ago. Since they were not, we have no choice but to go for F404 and F414. Both engines are good for the entire service life of the aircraft. For AMCA Mk2, we need to finalise an engine contract within the next year or two and have it operationally ready within 10 years from now. And since the Brits or French will be involved, we are going to expect an engine that will last the full life of the aircraft, which even the F414 offers. None of these jets are going to see an engine change, ever. So the only option for an indigenous engine is a jet that succeeds the AMCA, and that could take 10-15 years.
The IUSAV drone's getting a Kaveri derivative though.
AMCA will require 5th gen engine where temp in afterburner shoots upto 2400k .
GTRE built a high speed shadowgraph for visualizing the effectiveness of ventilating the V-gutter flame holder afterburner to mitigate screech & combustion instability in the afterburning Kaveri engine.
The test set up looks like this:
The newly designed V-gutter flame holder design:
The new flame holder integrated to the test set up:
The flame patterns from the different flame holder designs:
Here v=10.6% is the ventilation co-efficient for the V-gutter flame tube with the splitter plate. That flame holder was found to be the solution to the screeching & combustion instability problems of the afterburners. This is what GTRE had to say about the experiment results:
Previously GTRE had solved the creep problem faced by the blades. With this the only other problem with the current engine has been sorted out.
The test set up looks like this:
The newly designed V-gutter flame holder design:
The new flame holder integrated to the test set up:
The flame patterns from the different flame holder designs:
Here v=10.6% is the ventilation co-efficient for the V-gutter flame tube with the splitter plate. That flame holder was found to be the solution to the screeching & combustion instability problems of the afterburners. This is what GTRE had to say about the experiment results:
Previously GTRE had solved the creep problem faced by the blades. With this the only other problem with the current engine has been sorted out.
The major problems of the current Kaveri engine were the creep, screech & combustion instability. The last 2 problems were being caused by the afterburner. The dry Kaveri doesn't have the AB section so those problems don't exist on that variant. The creep related problems were sorted out sometime back. So the dry Kaveri was ready for flight tests then, the wet version is ready now. GTRE needs to get on with flight testing quickly.
After flight testing you can certify them to be ready. But what do you deploy these engines on ? There is no current user for the Kaveri with the AB. The Tejas could be a user but the engine doesn't produce enough power & the engines of the Tejas are still very new. Each fighter needs 2 sets of engines. So maybe when the Tejas needs new engines the Kaveri with AB could be used. That's at least a decade away, GTRE has enough time to improve on the engine's AB.
The engine dry thrust is good enough. Further increase in dry thrust will come from the new fan & the high pressure compressor. The fan is already here, the HP compressor is still being worked on. The wet thrust needs to at least match the current 84-85 kN of the GE 404. The Kaveri could get to 81-82 kN with the AB but couldn't sustain that level of thrust due to screeching & combusting instability. Without those problems & with the new compressor we should be able to get to 85 kN. The next set of challenges would be making alloys that can help us get to a higher TET & sustain it for long periods of time.
In the mean time the dry version is going to be operationalized with the Ghatak. With that LSP of the engine will start. Serial production will bring its own challenges. When the production line is established the Kaveri with AB can also be produced there. Thing are looking up for the Kaveri, for the 1st time in many many years.
Kaveri for LCA is dead. The F404 and F414 have enough life to last the full service life of both Mk1 and Mk2. It's the same reason why we don't plan on replacing the M2000's engines.
HAL is extending the service life of the Tejas's airframe. Given our experience with retiring (or not) Mig-21s, Jaguars etc., I am certain the debate or replacing the Mk-1A's engine will come up sooner or later.
Kavevi is not going to compete with the F414. That's out of the question.
The airframe is currently rated for 3000 hours, they plan to gradually raise it to 4000+ hours. Even if they raise is to 5000-6000 hours, the F404 can handle it.
Any ideas about dry weight ? It was overweight with afterburner. Ghatak is suppose to be 8-10 all up weight.
Thanks for the pdf.
Here is Dr. K. Ramachandra's biodata. He was the director of the GTRE sometime back & was actively involved with both the Kaveri, KMGT & the Manik engine development work. Here is how he describes his work in the past few years:
Dr. K. Ramachandra is still involved with the GTRE & is working on the following projects :
A lot of the projects shown above are targeting operationalization of the K9 standard engine for example the FOD monitor, damping engine components etc. Other projects are mostly meant for the K10 engine like the boltless disks, vaneless turbines, BILSK, anti-icing, thrust vectoring nozzle etc.
We have seen some of the prototypes already. Here is the 100% 3D printed anti-icing nose cap for the K10 engine :
HAL is going for 3D printed blades, disks, HP & LP turbines, HP & LP compressor of the HTFE-25. GTRE has followed suit by 3D printing many components of the Manik engine. It is likely that GTRE would 3D print the LP compressor of the K10 engine.
DMRL with the help of HAL has re-designed their single crystal blades with intricate cooling channels. Previous generations of DMRL's single crystal blades often could not be used for improper design of cooling channels. The K10 is likely to see the use of single crystal blades made out of DMRL's DMS4 nickel based superalloy. Single crystal blades & vanes made from the DMS4 alloy have been tested on the Su-30MKI's AL-31FP engines:
DMRL has recently put out a tender to start manufacturing the blades, the blade design is given below. Notice the many holes for passing the coolant:
The K9 engine uses the Yttria Stabilized cubic Zirconia (YSZ) based Thermal Barrier Coating (TBC). The theoretical maximum temperature at which YSZ based TBC can survive against a CMAS attack is 1450 deg C. The TET of the K9 is ~1430 deg C. This is the best we can do YSZ. Our coating, nano-material synthesis methods for YSZ are on par if not better than the global standard. Many of the private companies that supply equipment & materials for coating YSZ to GTRE also supply to many global engine OEMs & recently to NASA:
Thermal Spray Coatings From India Of Interest To NASA | A&A Thermal Spray Coatings
Every material has a limit to its performance & we have reached the limit of YSZ with the K9 engine. Thus the need for a better TBC came to be. DMRL in the past few years have started working on a bi-layer TBC. Basically they will apply a coat of Lanthanum Zirconate (LZ) over the presently used YSZ. Both the layers together is called the bi-layer TBC.
DMRL has used the AL-31FP engine to test the endurance of the new bi-layer TBC. The results were promising. The AL-31FP has become the test bed for all new jet engine technology.
In the recent years research publications on YSZ & LZ TBC is booming. Some examples:
ShieldSquare Captcha
(PDF) Effectiveness of lanthanum zirconate and Yttria stabilised zirconia freestanding APS thermal barrier coatings against natural CMAS attack at high temperatures
(PDF) Study on thermal, mechanical, microstructural properties and failure analyses of lanthanum zirconate based thermal barrier coatings: A review
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...-THz-TDS-measurements-A-comparative-study.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...-natural-CMAS-attack-at-high-temperatures.pdf
Additive laser deposition of YSZ on Ni base superalloy for thermal barrier application
Collating what we know of the K10 engine so far the specs they are targeting for are as follows:
Dimensions: L=3.49m, D=0.9m (same as K9)
Dry weight: 1100 kg (down from 1235 kg)
LP compressor pressure ratio: 4:1 (up from 3.4:1)
HP compressor pressure ratio: 6.75:1 (up from 6.4:1)
Overall pressure ratio: 27:1 (up from 21.76:1)
Maximum Thrust: Dry= 57-58 kN, Wet= 88-90 kN [my guess]
Thrust to Weight ratio: Dry= 5.38:1 (up from 4.29:1) Wet= 8.29:1 (up from 7.8:1) [my calculation based on the guess]
Turbine Entry Temperature: 1550-1580 deg C (up from 1430 deg C)
Mass flow: 78 kg/s (same as K9)
Bypass ratio: 0.16:1 (same as K9)
A thrust of weigh ratio of 8.29 is pretty good, 8.5 is the benchmark for great engines. GTRE must continue improving the engine as they prepare to make the dry K9 variants for the Ghatak program.
The K8 was 1430 kg, K9 was 1235 kg & the K10 is projected to be 1100 kg. The 11th prototype, K11, would need to drop the engine's weight to less than a ton to be in the "great" category. The K11 has to integrate BLISK, increase the use of 3D printing & develop newer lighter alloys.
It makes sense to go from the K10 to the DRDO-Rolls Royce joint venture for the 110+ kN engine. Going from the 80 kN class K9 engine to a 110+ kN engine would be quite the jump.
Here you have a photo from early 2020 of the DRDO chief showcasing a model of the K10 engine to PM Modi:
Really hope he is keeping track of this project. The Kaveri engine project should be of the stature of the IGMDP. A lot of the facilities & testing infrastructure needed cannot happen without political will.
Are you sure of that ? Last I heard the Ghatak was supposed to have a MTOW of "less than 15 tons". A high ranking DRDO official said that a few years back. "Less than 15 tons" is not very specific but at that time it seemed like the MTOW of the Ghatak would be greater than that of the Tejas.
I don't know if that is still the case. There were some recent reports of derating the dry Kaveri from 52 kN to 46 kN for the Ghatak UCAV. The derating was supposed to bring better fuel efficiency & more range for the Ghatak. Apparently 52 kN wasn't needed for the UCAV. So either the "less than 15 ton" MTOW figure is wrong or the UCAV max speed will be in high subsonic range.
Comparing the B-2 with the IUSAV would help. The B-2 has 4 77KN engines for an empty weight of 72T. That gives it a TWR above 0.4. For a 46KN engine, we will need an empty weight of 10T to match the B-2's performance. But being tactical in nature and the need to operate from mountain bases, it may need more TWR, so we could aim for 0.6, which could reduce empty weight to 8T. Add 4-4.5T of fuel and 2.5T of payload, we get 15T MTOW.
The S-70 Okhotnik apparently weighs 20T when empty, and has a little more than twice the engine power compared to Dry Kaveri.
Kaveri derivative + afterburner = k10 with some old kaveri specs.
But still its weight is above 1100 kg.
Just 30kg more than GE404-IN20 used on Tejas. Considering the thrust is slightly more than GE 404 as per @Gautam ‘s guess.
As per ADA, the IN20 actually gives out 89KN, in fact almost 90KN.
From 2003:
GE, India Working Out Light Combat Aircraft Engine Details | Aviation Week Network
POWERPLUS General Electric and the Indian government are working out details surrounding GE's propulsion offering for India's Light Combat Aircraft. GE is proposing a 20,000-lb.-thrust-class engine that would combine the hot section of the F404-GE-402 now used in the F/A-18C/D Hornet, with the...
aviationweek.com
The brochure underestimates the thrust.
So the new fan is not having blisk it means for future engine we have to again develop the fan.
@Gautam I found this very old tender regarding the new fan stage.
Here the mass flow is upto 100 kg/s so is it the actual capability of the current fan stage but it will make the engine size as big as al 31 . We already know that it is has been down rated for dry variant.
Then there is also mention of BLISK stage but the new fan is not having it. And what about the title 'Advanced turbo fan experimental engine'
Here the mass flow is upto 100 kg/s so is it the actual capability of the current fan stage but it will make the engine size as big as al 31 . We already know that it is has been down rated for dry variant.
Then there is also mention of BLISK stage but the new fan is not having it. And what about the title 'Advanced turbo fan experimental engine'
The elusive "Ganga" engine. GTRE in the early 2010s began work to develop a turbofan with a higher bypass ratio than the Kaveri with the same Kabini core. The proposed engine was called the "Ganga" & was supposed to be as powerful as the Su-30MKI's Al-31FP. The project was never mentioned by MoD in any of its publications as an ongoing program. From what I can tell GTRE used some of their internal funds for the project. Though I am not sure how they can afford to issue tenders & acquire new fans without a separate budget for this program. May be it was approved after all, who knows.
This is not the same fan as the current distortion tolerant fan one on the dry Kaveri. This is a different fan, an upgraded version of the original 78 kg/s fan.
Here is a photo of the fan:
Notice how the fan's bearing mounts have gone behind the 1st stage of the fan. The nose is significantly larger & the fan did have BLISK. The fan was manufactured by Kalyani/Bharat Forge. They were one of the few Indian companies that could do aerospace grade manufacturing of Titanium alloys with micron level tolerances. Titanium alloys are notoriously difficult to machine.
There are reasons to believe that this tender is the reason that Bharat Forge decided to make their own engines. This tender proved their capabilities to both DRDO-GTRE & to themselves.
That's not a big problem. They have designed 4-5 fans so far. They can do so again.