India - France relations.
- Thread starter Gautam
- Start date
‘We admire the political debate in India… Violence can be worrying… but India, with rule of law, can resolve it’
Having arrived as France’s Ambassador to India in October 2019, Emmanuel Lenain was among 25 foreign envoys who were taken to Kashmir by the government last month. Following his visit, Lenain caused a stir when he said that while the authorities were making “significant efforts” to “normalise the situation” in the region, the remaining restrictions should be removed “as soon as possible”. A career diplomat, he has served in New York, Beijing and Washington DC. He is in India at a time when India-France ties are strengthening in a wide range of areas — defence, counter-terrorism, trade and nuclear, among others.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: In light of coronavirus, has France proposed any travel or health advisories concerning India?
All governments must handle it in a proper way, which means no panic but serious contingency. This can be managed if there is full cooperation and therefore we are very eager to work with the Indian authorities. We are in touch with the authorities, and we perfectly trust them… Right now, there is general advice for any trips outside France, to limit them, but no fear specifically about India.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Have India and France moved on from the Rafale deal controversy? What is the status of the delivery of the first batch of fighters?
Cooperation of this kind has been going on for decades between France and India, and it is not a surprise that we are ready to move on. There has been a controversy and it was linked very specifically to election time in India… It has been cleared by the Supreme Court. I don’t see any voice saying anything different after this ruling, even in the Indian political landscape… As for the delivery, everything is fine, everything is on time. Last October, the first Rafale was handed over to the Indian Defence Minister. The second, third, fourth are also being delivered on site in France as the choice was made by the Indian authorities for the pilots to be trained on site. Once the training is done, the planes will come to Indian soil, starting this May, perfectly on time as per the contract…
“People we met in Kashmir were selected, so it was a partial image. But not a fake image… It was clear there are big challenges, but efforts by the government and aspirations of the people represent lot of reality,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the shadow of the Rafale controversy on future purchases is over?
I don’t see any more controversy. I think everyone now knows that this controversy was totally linked to politicians bickering at election time.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think that with the Chinese chairmanship of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), it has become difficult to put Pakistan on the black list?
India and France are totally on the same page on counter-terrorism. My country, like India, has been a victim of terrorism, especially the dreadful attack in 2015 and later. It is a major field of cooperation between our governments, intelligence, and this includes cooperation at international fora. At New York (the UN Security Council), we have been very active to have some terrorists included by the sanctions committee. We won’t be deterred by any country when it comes to putting any terrorist on that list, whatever it takes and whether it takes some time… You mentioned the FATF… We are very clear that we want concrete results on counter-terrorism, which means we want financial curbs for terrorism… The neighbouring country (Pakistan) was put on the grey list at the last meeting to keep up the pressure on it to fulfill the points we had raised. We are totally determined that this is the case, and a re-assessment will be done at the next meeting in June.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: You went to Kashmir as part of the second batch of envoys taken by the government there. What was your sense of the trip, interactions there? Were things normal?
I understand it is not easy to go there on individual trips these days because of security reasons… Within that frame (of a government-organised trip), many interactions were provided to us, direct interaction, without mediation. We met people from civil society, business community, local journalists and civil servants. It was very clear that there are still challenges, of security, but the efforts by the government to move on and the aspirations of the people we met represent lot of reality. They were very clear that they wanted to move forward, get economic development.
“Is image of India these days an obstacle? Firms have long-term perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge… I don’t see any reason why French investors will not look at big projects in India,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Did any of the envoys of the two batches seek a meeting with the former chief ministers of J&K in detention now for more than six months? (Farooq Abdullah’s detention under the PSA was revoked on Friday.)
No, it was not a prerequisite… If we had been provided access to all people, to all parts of the reality of Kashmir, we would have taken the opportunity. But again, the important thing for us was to get a first glimpse from our eyes of what was going on….
You can’t say that (the situation) is totally normal. You can see that efforts towards normalcy are being made. We got a briefing from people in charge of the security, we got a briefing from government officials, nobody tried to convince us that things are back to normal. There have been challenges for a long time, but we saw big efforts were being made to move on, to bring back investors, to get jobs for the youth. Still there are obstacles, and restrictions that are yet to be lifted.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think French investors would come to Kashmir?
The region is wonderfully beautiful… For investment, you need long-term perspective, you need to have clarity and the environment. It is going to take some time for international investors to come back.
RAVISH TIWARI: There is a fear that the entire visit of the envoys to Kashmir will be seen as a repeat of the Potemkin village chapter. That the government used the visit to give legitimacy to its actions there, especially amidst international criticism. Have you factored in this risk?
Firstly, I don’t think we have been given a Potemkin image (in 1787, Grigory Potemkin is said to have built a fake, portable village solely to impress Russian Empress Catherine II during her journey to Crimea). We were given a certain image, the officials, people we met had been selected by the government, so it was a partial image. But it was not a fake image. Secondly, I needed to view the situation from my eyes, that’s my job and that’s how I can make personal judgments about situations, advise my government. Then, as you may have seen, all of us refrained from making comments that could be used one way or the other. We went there to assess the situation, we didn’t go there to say this is right, this is wrong. Besides, I would say, the Kashmir issue has implications and that is why we are very vigilant. But, at the core of it, is our decision that it is a domestic issue, and that is why I am very cautious.
“All governments must handle coronavirus in a proper way… No panic but serious contingency… We are eager to work with India. There is general advice for trips outside France, but no fear specifically about India,” Lenain said.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: Recently, US President Donald Trump on more than one occasion talked about his willingness to mediate between India and Pakistan…
He likes to mediate… Well, there are two different sides. There are implications internationally, on regional security and beyond. That is why, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, we are very vigilant… We see no added value in discussing the issue in the Security Council. The Security Council is not going to impose a solution. Each time, a country (Pakistan) has tried to bring the issue to the Security Council, we have opposed it.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: How does France view the protests against the Citizenship (Amendment) Act?
These are internal issues, and my government, my authorities refrain comment on that. Obviously, we are always very attached to freedom of belief, and that is one reason why we admire India, which has traditionally been a very tolerant place for different groups and communities. But, it’s a domestic issue… Obviously, we are concerned when we see some violence. We admire the way there is real political debate in India all the time… very energetic, very vibrant… When it deteriorates into violence, we are concerned. But, it’s a domestic issue and we feel that in India, with its rule of law, these things can be solved through regular process. When you oppose a law, you can appeal to the court. That is also something we expect.
RAVISH TIWARI: Critically examining the five permanent members of the Security Council, the kind of heavy lifting that France has done for India, it outmatches even Russia in recent years. One view is that given the state of the French, or the entire European, economy, Paris sees the relationship as merely transactional, an economic opportunity, and that is what is dictating your position, whether it is on Article 370 or the CAA…
What you say is very cynical. How can you imagine that a country, my country, can take a position for a mere prospect of a military front?… Don’t forget that we were the first country to establish a strategic partnership with India in 1998. We have been side by side on all the major crises our countries have had… When you did your nuclear test in Pokhran in 1998, we were with you, some countries had put sanctions on India at that time. When you had difficulties with certain neighbours, we were always there. So why do we do that? To get one or two contracts? In international politics, you never take a certain alignment for purely commercial reasons. We have been doing that because we have made the assessment, and we have been proved right, that we have alignment on core interests and values. We are big democracies, we feel that we are attached to the law, international law to settle issues between countries, that we have interest in a free world, in an Indo-Pacific free world… My country wants to remain independent. We don’t want to be a junior partner, of either China, the US or whoever… And to get this independence, we have a strong anchor, which is that we have very strong partnerships with certain countries. At the core of these partnerships is parity. We want more partnership with you, and we want India to get a permanent seat in the Security Council. We feel it is high time, for the Security Council to reflect the reality of today.
AAKASH JOSHI: How does the unrest in India, including the recent Delhi riots, affect your outreach in India?
First, what we want is more people-to-people exchanges. We feel that no friendship can last between countries without it. Cultural (exchange) is one way to achieve it, but a more efficient way is to ensure that people travel to our country. So we welcome Indian students and tourists to come to France. The figure has doubled in the last two years. For students, we are offering scholarships, we have more partnerships with schools, and we are providing more and more courses entirely in English… We had 10,000 Indian students in France last year. Within five years, that number will reach 20,000… We are going to reach one million (Indian) tourists soon. We have the Alliance Française. We have 30,000 students now, we will have 35,000… We are working on very ambitious preparations. I don’t see any reason for it to be disrupted. We all hope that events like what we have seen in Northeast Delhi are behind us… Right now we have no reason to cancel any events anywhere in India.
UDIT MISRA: While Kashmir and the CAA are domestic issues, does France have a problem with the way things are being pushed in India? There is criticism over decisions being taken without any discussion and debate. Does this bother France?
India is a democracy that believes in the rule of law. In that case, there is not much for international partners to talk and discuss about. If the assumption is that India is no longer a democracy, and the institutions are not functioning, that is another issue. But I haven’t seen anybody challenging that right now.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the anti-CAA protests across the country and the riots in Delhi will deter French businesses from investing in India?
According to my record, French companies already provide roughly 350,000 jobs in India. They are very eager to be part of the huge transformation going on in this country. They want to be part of the ecological transformation, which means sustainable development. Ten per cent of the solar power in India has been installed by French companies… We want to be part of the urban transformation of your country. We are world leaders in (constructing) subways, anything pertaining to smart cities.
We also want to be a part of the digital transformation of your country. We already have some companies investing heavily. French companies such as Capgemini will soon reach 150,000 employees in India… Is the image of India these days an obstacle? Honestly, when companies are investing, they are long-term investors, you have a 10-year, 20-year perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge.
MONOJIT MAJUMDAR: Over the past few years, since 2018 , most of the news that we come across in the international media from France is about deep social unrest which seems to be manifesting itself in a lot of street violence and protests — the Yellow Vests movement, the transport strike over the pension reforms. What has triggered the recent unrest?
The Yellow Vests movement is different from previous movements… A certain part of the population feels that due to globalisation, tomorrow will be worse than today, and that things are going to be even worse for their kids. It’s a perception… Perception is very important in politics. They are not poor people, they are not people without jobs, they are people who work hard and feel that the opportunities to access some services are not as they were. The government has recognised this and a huge plan has been launched. In the meantime, the government is committed to keep on reforming the country. My president wants France to be the most competitive country, and since he came to power there have been numerous reforms.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Has India’s economic profile taken a beating in the international community?
Growth is slower but I would say there is a global component in it. There has been some very impressive progress in the Indian economy. India jumped up in ‘ease of doing business’. Would we like to see some additional reforms? Yes. Would we like to have less barriers? Yes. We would like to see lesser taxes on products which are very important for French economy. We would like to have less taxes on food and agriculture. Would we like more investment in infrastructure? Yes. Our companies and we are very optimistic of the future of India. They are not looking for cheap returns, they are long-term investors.
RAVISH TIWARI: In your view, how is democracy shaping up in Europe?
Europe is not immune from populism tendencies… We have seen globalisation unleash some forces because of which a part of the middle class feels disenfranchised and frustrated by the way their lives have been altered. But, he (the French president) has tried to have a very responsible, ambitious policy for Europe by proposing to move forward and, so far, Europe is moving.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Although France was the first to sign an agreement with India after the NSG waived rules that forbid nuclear trade with a non-NPT signatory, the construction of the six European pressurized reactor units at Jaitapur hasn’t really moved as fast as it should have. What are the hurdles?
In nuclear energy, you have to be safe… It does take time. When you build nuclear plants, you commit yourself for as much as a century… We already have two plants in China. We have plants under construction in the UK. They are perfectly on time… We think we have a great technology. What remains to be discussed… we have technical issues, issues about responsibility, which you call civilian nuclear liability. The progress is fast, we are almost there.
The other is the commercial aspect. The companies are discussing among themselves. We are committed to the best price for Indian companies.
‘We admire the political debate in India… Violence can be worrying… but India, with rule of law, can resolve it’
Having arrived as France’s Ambassador to India in October 2019, Emmanuel Lenain was among 25 foreign envoys who were taken to Kashmir by the government last month. Following his visit, Lenain caused a stir when he said that while the authorities were making “significant efforts” to “normalise the situation” in the region, the remaining restrictions should be removed “as soon as possible”. A career diplomat, he has served in New York, Beijing and Washington DC. He is in India at a time when India-France ties are strengthening in a wide range of areas — defence, counter-terrorism, trade and nuclear, among others.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: In light of coronavirus, has France proposed any travel or health advisories concerning India?
All governments must handle it in a proper way, which means no panic but serious contingency. This can be managed if there is full cooperation and therefore we are very eager to work with the Indian authorities. We are in touch with the authorities, and we perfectly trust them… Right now, there is general advice for any trips outside France, to limit them, but no fear specifically about India.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Have India and France moved on from the Rafale deal controversy? What is the status of the delivery of the first batch of fighters?
Cooperation of this kind has been going on for decades between France and India, and it is not a surprise that we are ready to move on. There has been a controversy and it was linked very specifically to election time in India… It has been cleared by the Supreme Court. I don’t see any voice saying anything different after this ruling, even in the Indian political landscape… As for the delivery, everything is fine, everything is on time. Last October, the first Rafale was handed over to the Indian Defence Minister. The second, third, fourth are also being delivered on site in France as the choice was made by the Indian authorities for the pilots to be trained on site. Once the training is done, the planes will come to Indian soil, starting this May, perfectly on time as per the contract…
“People we met in Kashmir were selected, so it was a partial image. But not a fake image… It was clear there are big challenges, but efforts by the government and aspirations of the people represent lot of reality,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the shadow of the Rafale controversy on future purchases is over?
I don’t see any more controversy. I think everyone now knows that this controversy was totally linked to politicians bickering at election time.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think that with the Chinese chairmanship of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), it has become difficult to put Pakistan on the black list?
India and France are totally on the same page on counter-terrorism. My country, like India, has been a victim of terrorism, especially the dreadful attack in 2015 and later. It is a major field of cooperation between our governments, intelligence, and this includes cooperation at international fora. At New York (the UN Security Council), we have been very active to have some terrorists included by the sanctions committee. We won’t be deterred by any country when it comes to putting any terrorist on that list, whatever it takes and whether it takes some time… You mentioned the FATF… We are very clear that we want concrete results on counter-terrorism, which means we want financial curbs for terrorism… The neighbouring country (Pakistan) was put on the grey list at the last meeting to keep up the pressure on it to fulfill the points we had raised. We are totally determined that this is the case, and a re-assessment will be done at the next meeting in June.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: You went to Kashmir as part of the second batch of envoys taken by the government there. What was your sense of the trip, interactions there? Were things normal?
I understand it is not easy to go there on individual trips these days because of security reasons… Within that frame (of a government-organised trip), many interactions were provided to us, direct interaction, without mediation. We met people from civil society, business community, local journalists and civil servants. It was very clear that there are still challenges, of security, but the efforts by the government to move on and the aspirations of the people we met represent lot of reality. They were very clear that they wanted to move forward, get economic development.
“Is image of India these days an obstacle? Firms have long-term perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge… I don’t see any reason why French investors will not look at big projects in India,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Did any of the envoys of the two batches seek a meeting with the former chief ministers of J&K in detention now for more than six months? (Farooq Abdullah’s detention under the PSA was revoked on Friday.)
No, it was not a prerequisite… If we had been provided access to all people, to all parts of the reality of Kashmir, we would have taken the opportunity. But again, the important thing for us was to get a first glimpse from our eyes of what was going on….
You can’t say that (the situation) is totally normal. You can see that efforts towards normalcy are being made. We got a briefing from people in charge of the security, we got a briefing from government officials, nobody tried to convince us that things are back to normal. There have been challenges for a long time, but we saw big efforts were being made to move on, to bring back investors, to get jobs for the youth. Still there are obstacles, and restrictions that are yet to be lifted.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think French investors would come to Kashmir?
The region is wonderfully beautiful… For investment, you need long-term perspective, you need to have clarity and the environment. It is going to take some time for international investors to come back.
RAVISH TIWARI: There is a fear that the entire visit of the envoys to Kashmir will be seen as a repeat of the Potemkin village chapter. That the government used the visit to give legitimacy to its actions there, especially amidst international criticism. Have you factored in this risk?
Firstly, I don’t think we have been given a Potemkin image (in 1787, Grigory Potemkin is said to have built a fake, portable village solely to impress Russian Empress Catherine II during her journey to Crimea). We were given a certain image, the officials, people we met had been selected by the government, so it was a partial image. But it was not a fake image. Secondly, I needed to view the situation from my eyes, that’s my job and that’s how I can make personal judgments about situations, advise my government. Then, as you may have seen, all of us refrained from making comments that could be used one way or the other. We went there to assess the situation, we didn’t go there to say this is right, this is wrong. Besides, I would say, the Kashmir issue has implications and that is why we are very vigilant. But, at the core of it, is our decision that it is a domestic issue, and that is why I am very cautious.
“All governments must handle coronavirus in a proper way… No panic but serious contingency… We are eager to work with India. There is general advice for trips outside France, but no fear specifically about India,” Lenain said.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: Recently, US President Donald Trump on more than one occasion talked about his willingness to mediate between India and Pakistan…
He likes to mediate… Well, there are two different sides. There are implications internationally, on regional security and beyond. That is why, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, we are very vigilant… We see no added value in discussing the issue in the Security Council. The Security Council is not going to impose a solution. Each time, a country (Pakistan) has tried to bring the issue to the Security Council, we have opposed it.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: How does France view the protests against the Citizenship (Amendment) Act?
These are internal issues, and my government, my authorities refrain comment on that. Obviously, we are always very attached to freedom of belief, and that is one reason why we admire India, which has traditionally been a very tolerant place for different groups and communities. But, it’s a domestic issue… Obviously, we are concerned when we see some violence. We admire the way there is real political debate in India all the time… very energetic, very vibrant… When it deteriorates into violence, we are concerned. But, it’s a domestic issue and we feel that in India, with its rule of law, these things can be solved through regular process. When you oppose a law, you can appeal to the court. That is also something we expect.
RAVISH TIWARI: Critically examining the five permanent members of the Security Council, the kind of heavy lifting that France has done for India, it outmatches even Russia in recent years. One view is that given the state of the French, or the entire European, economy, Paris sees the relationship as merely transactional, an economic opportunity, and that is what is dictating your position, whether it is on Article 370 or the CAA…
What you say is very cynical. How can you imagine that a country, my country, can take a position for a mere prospect of a military front?… Don’t forget that we were the first country to establish a strategic partnership with India in 1998. We have been side by side on all the major crises our countries have had… When you did your nuclear test in Pokhran in 1998, we were with you, some countries had put sanctions on India at that time. When you had difficulties with certain neighbours, we were always there. So why do we do that? To get one or two contracts? In international politics, you never take a certain alignment for purely commercial reasons. We have been doing that because we have made the assessment, and we have been proved right, that we have alignment on core interests and values. We are big democracies, we feel that we are attached to the law, international law to settle issues between countries, that we have interest in a free world, in an Indo-Pacific free world… My country wants to remain independent. We don’t want to be a junior partner, of either China, the US or whoever… And to get this independence, we have a strong anchor, which is that we have very strong partnerships with certain countries. At the core of these partnerships is parity. We want more partnership with you, and we want India to get a permanent seat in the Security Council. We feel it is high time, for the Security Council to reflect the reality of today.
AAKASH JOSHI: How does the unrest in India, including the recent Delhi riots, affect your outreach in India?
First, what we want is more people-to-people exchanges. We feel that no friendship can last between countries without it. Cultural (exchange) is one way to achieve it, but a more efficient way is to ensure that people travel to our country. So we welcome Indian students and tourists to come to France. The figure has doubled in the last two years. For students, we are offering scholarships, we have more partnerships with schools, and we are providing more and more courses entirely in English… We had 10,000 Indian students in France last year. Within five years, that number will reach 20,000… We are going to reach one million (Indian) tourists soon. We have the Alliance Française. We have 30,000 students now, we will have 35,000… We are working on very ambitious preparations. I don’t see any reason for it to be disrupted. We all hope that events like what we have seen in Northeast Delhi are behind us… Right now we have no reason to cancel any events anywhere in India.
UDIT MISRA: While Kashmir and the CAA are domestic issues, does France have a problem with the way things are being pushed in India? There is criticism over decisions being taken without any discussion and debate. Does this bother France?
India is a democracy that believes in the rule of law. In that case, there is not much for international partners to talk and discuss about. If the assumption is that India is no longer a democracy, and the institutions are not functioning, that is another issue. But I haven’t seen anybody challenging that right now.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the anti-CAA protests across the country and the riots in Delhi will deter French businesses from investing in India?
According to my record, French companies already provide roughly 350,000 jobs in India. They are very eager to be part of the huge transformation going on in this country. They want to be part of the ecological transformation, which means sustainable development. Ten per cent of the solar power in India has been installed by French companies… We want to be part of the urban transformation of your country. We are world leaders in (constructing) subways, anything pertaining to smart cities.
We also want to be a part of the digital transformation of your country. We already have some companies investing heavily. French companies such as Capgemini will soon reach 150,000 employees in India… Is the image of India these days an obstacle? Honestly, when companies are investing, they are long-term investors, you have a 10-year, 20-year perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge.
MONOJIT MAJUMDAR: Over the past few years, since 2018 , most of the news that we come across in the international media from France is about deep social unrest which seems to be manifesting itself in a lot of street violence and protests — the Yellow Vests movement, the transport strike over the pension reforms. What has triggered the recent unrest?
The Yellow Vests movement is different from previous movements… A certain part of the population feels that due to globalisation, tomorrow will be worse than today, and that things are going to be even worse for their kids. It’s a perception… Perception is very important in politics. They are not poor people, they are not people without jobs, they are people who work hard and feel that the opportunities to access some services are not as they were. The government has recognised this and a huge plan has been launched. In the meantime, the government is committed to keep on reforming the country. My president wants France to be the most competitive country, and since he came to power there have been numerous reforms.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Has India’s economic profile taken a beating in the international community?
Growth is slower but I would say there is a global component in it. There has been some very impressive progress in the Indian economy. India jumped up in ‘ease of doing business’. Would we like to see some additional reforms? Yes. Would we like to have less barriers? Yes. We would like to see lesser taxes on products which are very important for French economy. We would like to have less taxes on food and agriculture. Would we like more investment in infrastructure? Yes. Our companies and we are very optimistic of the future of India. They are not looking for cheap returns, they are long-term investors.
RAVISH TIWARI: In your view, how is democracy shaping up in Europe?
Europe is not immune from populism tendencies… We have seen globalisation unleash some forces because of which a part of the middle class feels disenfranchised and frustrated by the way their lives have been altered. But, he (the French president) has tried to have a very responsible, ambitious policy for Europe by proposing to move forward and, so far, Europe is moving.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Although France was the first to sign an agreement with India after the NSG waived rules that forbid nuclear trade with a non-NPT signatory, the construction of the six European pressurized reactor units at Jaitapur hasn’t really moved as fast as it should have. What are the hurdles?
In nuclear energy, you have to be safe… It does take time. When you build nuclear plants, you commit yourself for as much as a century… We already have two plants in China. We have plants under construction in the UK. They are perfectly on time… We think we have a great technology. What remains to be discussed… we have technical issues, issues about responsibility, which you call civilian nuclear liability. The progress is fast, we are almost there.
The other is the commercial aspect. The companies are discussing among themselves. We are committed to the best price for Indian companies.
‘We admire the political debate in India… Violence can be worrying… but India, with rule of law, can resolve it’
The sheer amount of baiting in that interview just to get one controversial comment from the Ambassador, and yet the Ambassador gave nothing away. Its hard being a reporter these days. Sed lyf.‘We admire the political debate in India… Violence can be worrying… but India, with rule of law, can resolve it’
Having arrived as France’s Ambassador to India in October 2019, Emmanuel Lenain was among 25 foreign envoys who were taken to Kashmir by the government last month. Following his visit, Lenain caused a stir when he said that while the authorities were making “significant efforts” to “normalise the situation” in the region, the remaining restrictions should be removed “as soon as possible”. A career diplomat, he has served in New York, Beijing and Washington DC. He is in India at a time when India-France ties are strengthening in a wide range of areas — defence, counter-terrorism, trade and nuclear, among others.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: In light of coronavirus, has France proposed any travel or health advisories concerning India?
All governments must handle it in a proper way, which means no panic but serious contingency. This can be managed if there is full cooperation and therefore we are very eager to work with the Indian authorities. We are in touch with the authorities, and we perfectly trust them… Right now, there is general advice for any trips outside France, to limit them, but no fear specifically about India.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Have India and France moved on from the Rafale deal controversy? What is the status of the delivery of the first batch of fighters?
Cooperation of this kind has been going on for decades between France and India, and it is not a surprise that we are ready to move on. There has been a controversy and it was linked very specifically to election time in India… It has been cleared by the Supreme Court. I don’t see any voice saying anything different after this ruling, even in the Indian political landscape… As for the delivery, everything is fine, everything is on time. Last October, the first Rafale was handed over to the Indian Defence Minister. The second, third, fourth are also being delivered on site in France as the choice was made by the Indian authorities for the pilots to be trained on site. Once the training is done, the planes will come to Indian soil, starting this May, perfectly on time as per the contract…
“People we met in Kashmir were selected, so it was a partial image. But not a fake image… It was clear there are big challenges, but efforts by the government and aspirations of the people represent lot of reality,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the shadow of the Rafale controversy on future purchases is over?
I don’t see any more controversy. I think everyone now knows that this controversy was totally linked to politicians bickering at election time.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think that with the Chinese chairmanship of the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), it has become difficult to put Pakistan on the black list?
India and France are totally on the same page on counter-terrorism. My country, like India, has been a victim of terrorism, especially the dreadful attack in 2015 and later. It is a major field of cooperation between our governments, intelligence, and this includes cooperation at international fora. At New York (the UN Security Council), we have been very active to have some terrorists included by the sanctions committee. We won’t be deterred by any country when it comes to putting any terrorist on that list, whatever it takes and whether it takes some time… You mentioned the FATF… We are very clear that we want concrete results on counter-terrorism, which means we want financial curbs for terrorism… The neighbouring country (Pakistan) was put on the grey list at the last meeting to keep up the pressure on it to fulfill the points we had raised. We are totally determined that this is the case, and a re-assessment will be done at the next meeting in June.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: You went to Kashmir as part of the second batch of envoys taken by the government there. What was your sense of the trip, interactions there? Were things normal?
I understand it is not easy to go there on individual trips these days because of security reasons… Within that frame (of a government-organised trip), many interactions were provided to us, direct interaction, without mediation. We met people from civil society, business community, local journalists and civil servants. It was very clear that there are still challenges, of security, but the efforts by the government to move on and the aspirations of the people we met represent lot of reality. They were very clear that they wanted to move forward, get economic development.
“Is image of India these days an obstacle? Firms have long-term perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge… I don’t see any reason why French investors will not look at big projects in India,” Lenain said.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Did any of the envoys of the two batches seek a meeting with the former chief ministers of J&K in detention now for more than six months? (Farooq Abdullah’s detention under the PSA was revoked on Friday.)
No, it was not a prerequisite… If we had been provided access to all people, to all parts of the reality of Kashmir, we would have taken the opportunity. But again, the important thing for us was to get a first glimpse from our eyes of what was going on….
You can’t say that (the situation) is totally normal. You can see that efforts towards normalcy are being made. We got a briefing from people in charge of the security, we got a briefing from government officials, nobody tried to convince us that things are back to normal. There have been challenges for a long time, but we saw big efforts were being made to move on, to bring back investors, to get jobs for the youth. Still there are obstacles, and restrictions that are yet to be lifted.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think French investors would come to Kashmir?
The region is wonderfully beautiful… For investment, you need long-term perspective, you need to have clarity and the environment. It is going to take some time for international investors to come back.
RAVISH TIWARI: There is a fear that the entire visit of the envoys to Kashmir will be seen as a repeat of the Potemkin village chapter. That the government used the visit to give legitimacy to its actions there, especially amidst international criticism. Have you factored in this risk?
Firstly, I don’t think we have been given a Potemkin image (in 1787, Grigory Potemkin is said to have built a fake, portable village solely to impress Russian Empress Catherine II during her journey to Crimea). We were given a certain image, the officials, people we met had been selected by the government, so it was a partial image. But it was not a fake image. Secondly, I needed to view the situation from my eyes, that’s my job and that’s how I can make personal judgments about situations, advise my government. Then, as you may have seen, all of us refrained from making comments that could be used one way or the other. We went there to assess the situation, we didn’t go there to say this is right, this is wrong. Besides, I would say, the Kashmir issue has implications and that is why we are very vigilant. But, at the core of it, is our decision that it is a domestic issue, and that is why I am very cautious.
“All governments must handle coronavirus in a proper way… No panic but serious contingency… We are eager to work with India. There is general advice for trips outside France, but no fear specifically about India,” Lenain said.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: Recently, US President Donald Trump on more than one occasion talked about his willingness to mediate between India and Pakistan…
He likes to mediate… Well, there are two different sides. There are implications internationally, on regional security and beyond. That is why, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, we are very vigilant… We see no added value in discussing the issue in the Security Council. The Security Council is not going to impose a solution. Each time, a country (Pakistan) has tried to bring the issue to the Security Council, we have opposed it.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: How does France view the protests against the Citizenship (Amendment) Act?
These are internal issues, and my government, my authorities refrain comment on that. Obviously, we are always very attached to freedom of belief, and that is one reason why we admire India, which has traditionally been a very tolerant place for different groups and communities. But, it’s a domestic issue… Obviously, we are concerned when we see some violence. We admire the way there is real political debate in India all the time… very energetic, very vibrant… When it deteriorates into violence, we are concerned. But, it’s a domestic issue and we feel that in India, with its rule of law, these things can be solved through regular process. When you oppose a law, you can appeal to the court. That is also something we expect.
RAVISH TIWARI: Critically examining the five permanent members of the Security Council, the kind of heavy lifting that France has done for India, it outmatches even Russia in recent years. One view is that given the state of the French, or the entire European, economy, Paris sees the relationship as merely transactional, an economic opportunity, and that is what is dictating your position, whether it is on Article 370 or the CAA…
What you say is very cynical. How can you imagine that a country, my country, can take a position for a mere prospect of a military front?… Don’t forget that we were the first country to establish a strategic partnership with India in 1998. We have been side by side on all the major crises our countries have had… When you did your nuclear test in Pokhran in 1998, we were with you, some countries had put sanctions on India at that time. When you had difficulties with certain neighbours, we were always there. So why do we do that? To get one or two contracts? In international politics, you never take a certain alignment for purely commercial reasons. We have been doing that because we have made the assessment, and we have been proved right, that we have alignment on core interests and values. We are big democracies, we feel that we are attached to the law, international law to settle issues between countries, that we have interest in a free world, in an Indo-Pacific free world… My country wants to remain independent. We don’t want to be a junior partner, of either China, the US or whoever… And to get this independence, we have a strong anchor, which is that we have very strong partnerships with certain countries. At the core of these partnerships is parity. We want more partnership with you, and we want India to get a permanent seat in the Security Council. We feel it is high time, for the Security Council to reflect the reality of today.
AAKASH JOSHI: How does the unrest in India, including the recent Delhi riots, affect your outreach in India?
First, what we want is more people-to-people exchanges. We feel that no friendship can last between countries without it. Cultural (exchange) is one way to achieve it, but a more efficient way is to ensure that people travel to our country. So we welcome Indian students and tourists to come to France. The figure has doubled in the last two years. For students, we are offering scholarships, we have more partnerships with schools, and we are providing more and more courses entirely in English… We had 10,000 Indian students in France last year. Within five years, that number will reach 20,000… We are going to reach one million (Indian) tourists soon. We have the Alliance Française. We have 30,000 students now, we will have 35,000… We are working on very ambitious preparations. I don’t see any reason for it to be disrupted. We all hope that events like what we have seen in Northeast Delhi are behind us… Right now we have no reason to cancel any events anywhere in India.
UDIT MISRA: While Kashmir and the CAA are domestic issues, does France have a problem with the way things are being pushed in India? There is criticism over decisions being taken without any discussion and debate. Does this bother France?
India is a democracy that believes in the rule of law. In that case, there is not much for international partners to talk and discuss about. If the assumption is that India is no longer a democracy, and the institutions are not functioning, that is another issue. But I haven’t seen anybody challenging that right now.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Do you think the anti-CAA protests across the country and the riots in Delhi will deter French businesses from investing in India?
According to my record, French companies already provide roughly 350,000 jobs in India. They are very eager to be part of the huge transformation going on in this country. They want to be part of the ecological transformation, which means sustainable development. Ten per cent of the solar power in India has been installed by French companies… We want to be part of the urban transformation of your country. We are world leaders in (constructing) subways, anything pertaining to smart cities.
We also want to be a part of the digital transformation of your country. We already have some companies investing heavily. French companies such as Capgemini will soon reach 150,000 employees in India… Is the image of India these days an obstacle? Honestly, when companies are investing, they are long-term investors, you have a 10-year, 20-year perspective. If you look at 20 years, India is just growing huge.
MONOJIT MAJUMDAR: Over the past few years, since 2018 , most of the news that we come across in the international media from France is about deep social unrest which seems to be manifesting itself in a lot of street violence and protests — the Yellow Vests movement, the transport strike over the pension reforms. What has triggered the recent unrest?
The Yellow Vests movement is different from previous movements… A certain part of the population feels that due to globalisation, tomorrow will be worse than today, and that things are going to be even worse for their kids. It’s a perception… Perception is very important in politics. They are not poor people, they are not people without jobs, they are people who work hard and feel that the opportunities to access some services are not as they were. The government has recognised this and a huge plan has been launched. In the meantime, the government is committed to keep on reforming the country. My president wants France to be the most competitive country, and since he came to power there have been numerous reforms.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Has India’s economic profile taken a beating in the international community?
Growth is slower but I would say there is a global component in it. There has been some very impressive progress in the Indian economy. India jumped up in ‘ease of doing business’. Would we like to see some additional reforms? Yes. Would we like to have less barriers? Yes. We would like to see lesser taxes on products which are very important for French economy. We would like to have less taxes on food and agriculture. Would we like more investment in infrastructure? Yes. Our companies and we are very optimistic of the future of India. They are not looking for cheap returns, they are long-term investors.
RAVISH TIWARI: In your view, how is democracy shaping up in Europe?
Europe is not immune from populism tendencies… We have seen globalisation unleash some forces because of which a part of the middle class feels disenfranchised and frustrated by the way their lives have been altered. But, he (the French president) has tried to have a very responsible, ambitious policy for Europe by proposing to move forward and, so far, Europe is moving.
SHUBHAJIT ROY: Although France was the first to sign an agreement with India after the NSG waived rules that forbid nuclear trade with a non-NPT signatory, the construction of the six European pressurized reactor units at Jaitapur hasn’t really moved as fast as it should have. What are the hurdles?
In nuclear energy, you have to be safe… It does take time. When you build nuclear plants, you commit yourself for as much as a century… We already have two plants in China. We have plants under construction in the UK. They are perfectly on time… We think we have a great technology. What remains to be discussed… we have technical issues, issues about responsibility, which you call civilian nuclear liability. The progress is fast, we are almost there.
The other is the commercial aspect. The companies are discussing among themselves. We are committed to the best price for Indian companies.
‘We admire the political debate in India… Violence can be worrying… but India, with rule of law, can resolve it’
What’s Behind The Rising India-France Maritime Activity In the Indo-Pacific ?
March 26, 2020
by Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan
A recent engagement spotlighted the broader strategic collaboration between the two countries in this realm
Despite growing fears of the global coronavirus pandemic, India and France held a joint exercise in the Indian Ocean. While dealing with this and other challenges, both countries understand that they share broader strategic interests including the implications China’s rise in the Indo-Pacific and beyond.
In a first, the two navies conducted joint patrols from Reunion Island, the French naval base in the Indian Ocean. The Commander of the Indian Navy P-8I, which was part of the joint patrols, is reported to have said that that such joint security operations “make it possible to maintain the security of international maritime routes for trade and communications.”
These engagements are not without significance. India has so far generally conducted Coordinated Patrols (CORPAT) only with its maritime neighbours. Currently, the Indian Navy has Joint Exclusive Economic Zone surveillance exercises with the Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius and CORPAT series are undertaken with the navies of Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand and Indonesia. The United States had earlier made an offer to India to carry out CORPAT but India rejected it.
But India’s own comfort level in engaging in CORPAT-like exercises is growing because New Delhi seems to be realizing that it is in India’s own interests to expand the number of countries with which its does such engagements. Thus, India in the last five years has shown greater inclination to engage with like-minded countries to expand its presence in the Indian Ocean. The current engagement is also a clear acknowledgement of the growing strategic importance of the areas between the East African coastline and the Malacca Straits.
Speaking to an Indian newspaper on the latest India-France interactions more specifically, Indian defence ministry sources said that while both India and France are on the same page when it comes to the challenges and concerns in the region, both also have capacity limitations. These constraints have in fact become an imperative for the two to join hands and undertake more coordinated and joint naval manoeuvres. The sources were careful to add that these “patrols will be periodical” and that “there is no set pattern” to these engagements. Nevertheless, it remains an important indicator of India’s greater willingness for expanding its own footprint in the region as also for strengthening capacity-building by partnering with navies of like-minded nations.
India and France discussed CORPAT-like engagements in November 2019 during the visit of the French Navy Chief Admiral Christophe Prazuck. He had then emphasised the importance of “organizing joint patrols with the Indian Navy” and stated that the two sides are working on “the very precise objectives” of such manoeuvres. He added that “if a zone [Exclusive Economic Zones] is not controlled, then it is bound to be pillaged, and if it is pillaged, then it is bound to be occupied. And if it is occupied, it will be contested.” As for the areas of engagements, he said it could be “North Western Indian Ocean or Southern Indian Ocean around the islands that are part of France.” Earlier in October 2019, the French President Emmanuel Macron had mentioned that a patrol aircraft from the Indian Navy will be deployed at Le Reunion to participate in surveillance missions in the first quarter of 2020.
Speaking about the growing Chinese presence in western Indian Ocean and the threat it poses, Admiral Prazuk noted that before piracy issues flared up in Somalia in 2008, there were no Chinese vessels. But clearly piracy has become an excuse for China to send its ships and they are still sending them even though the threat from piracy has diminished significantly. In addition to ships, China has also been sending Nuclear Attack submarines (SSNs) into the western Indian Ocean. As the Admiral noted, SSNs are “not the most effective tool to fight against pirates.”
The closer strategic engagement between the different arms of the governments including the militaries is a sign of the comfort and confidence that exist between India and France. This comfort level is demonstrated by the comments of an Indian official, who said that “France is a safe country for us, there will be no concerns in conducting joint patrols with them.” Thus, it is no surprise that France became the first country to have a Liaison Officer at the Indian Navy’s Information Fusion Centre (IFC-IOR).
France is one of the oldest, most trusted of India’s partners, possibly second only to Russia. But today with Russia having established an uncomfortably close relationship with China, India’s reliance on France has become that much greater. Even though India has traditionally remained uneasy with terms like alliance, Modi used the term to describe the relations with France at his speech at UNESCO in Paris, where he said, “Today in the 21st century, we talk of INFRA. I would like to say that for me it is IN+FRA, which means the alliance between India and France.”
This is a significant recognition of how much closer New Delhi and Paris have become even in the last few years. Some in the Indian strategic community discounted this as word play, but the reality is that the two countries’ strategic engagements have expanded and deepened in significant ways. The manner in which France backed India at the UN Security Council discussion on Jammu and Kashmir in 2019 is the latest indication of France’s strategic commitment to India. Russia used to be that reliable partner in the UN Security Council in the past but increasingly that spot is occupied by France (and of course, the United States).
While India and France have collaboration across a number of important sectors such as space, nuclear and defence, the particular focus on Indian Ocean and maritime security is significant. This is in line with India’s own changed vision for the Indian Ocean. In 2014, Prime Minister Modi made a pitch to India’s friends and strategic partners, saying “collective action and cooperation will best advance peace and security in our maritime region,” wherein India looks to key partners such as France and the United States in guaranteeing a stable maritime order in the Indian Ocean. This is a big shift from India’s earlier approach of criticizing the presence of any extra-regional powers in the Indian Ocean.
The recent CORPAT between Indian and French navies in Reunion Island became possible only because India and France signed an agreement in 2018 that would give reciprocal access to each other’s military facilities. This is similar to the logistics agreement, LEMOA, that India signed with the US. The agreement with France has expanded the presence and the type of naval operations that the Indian Navy is able to undertake in the western Indian Ocean. France has military facilities in the island of La Réunion, Mayotte, and the French Southern and Atlantic Lands. India’s pragmatic approach to Indian Ocean will go a long way in strengthening its operational manoeuvrability and creating more strategic options as it prepares to address a more muscular Chinese presence in the maritime spaces in India’s vicinity.
What’s Behind the Rising India-France Maritime Activity in the Indo-Pacific?
March 26, 2020
by Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan
A recent engagement spotlighted the broader strategic collaboration between the two countries in this realm
Despite growing fears of the global coronavirus pandemic, India and France held a joint exercise in the Indian Ocean. While dealing with this and other challenges, both countries understand that they share broader strategic interests including the implications China’s rise in the Indo-Pacific and beyond.
In a first, the two navies conducted joint patrols from Reunion Island, the French naval base in the Indian Ocean. The Commander of the Indian Navy P-8I, which was part of the joint patrols, is reported to have said that that such joint security operations “make it possible to maintain the security of international maritime routes for trade and communications.”
These engagements are not without significance. India has so far generally conducted Coordinated Patrols (CORPAT) only with its maritime neighbours. Currently, the Indian Navy has Joint Exclusive Economic Zone surveillance exercises with the Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius and CORPAT series are undertaken with the navies of Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand and Indonesia. The United States had earlier made an offer to India to carry out CORPAT but India rejected it.
But India’s own comfort level in engaging in CORPAT-like exercises is growing because New Delhi seems to be realizing that it is in India’s own interests to expand the number of countries with which its does such engagements. Thus, India in the last five years has shown greater inclination to engage with like-minded countries to expand its presence in the Indian Ocean. The current engagement is also a clear acknowledgement of the growing strategic importance of the areas between the East African coastline and the Malacca Straits.
Speaking to an Indian newspaper on the latest India-France interactions more specifically, Indian defence ministry sources said that while both India and France are on the same page when it comes to the challenges and concerns in the region, both also have capacity limitations. These constraints have in fact become an imperative for the two to join hands and undertake more coordinated and joint naval manoeuvres. The sources were careful to add that these “patrols will be periodical” and that “there is no set pattern” to these engagements. Nevertheless, it remains an important indicator of India’s greater willingness for expanding its own footprint in the region as also for strengthening capacity-building by partnering with navies of like-minded nations.
India and France discussed CORPAT-like engagements in November 2019 during the visit of the French Navy Chief Admiral Christophe Prazuck. He had then emphasised the importance of “organizing joint patrols with the Indian Navy” and stated that the two sides are working on “the very precise objectives” of such manoeuvres. He added that “if a zone [Exclusive Economic Zones] is not controlled, then it is bound to be pillaged, and if it is pillaged, then it is bound to be occupied. And if it is occupied, it will be contested.” As for the areas of engagements, he said it could be “North Western Indian Ocean or Southern Indian Ocean around the islands that are part of France.” Earlier in October 2019, the French President Emmanuel Macron had mentioned that a patrol aircraft from the Indian Navy will be deployed at Le Reunion to participate in surveillance missions in the first quarter of 2020.
Speaking about the growing Chinese presence in western Indian Ocean and the threat it poses, Admiral Prazuk noted that before piracy issues flared up in Somalia in 2008, there were no Chinese vessels. But clearly piracy has become an excuse for China to send its ships and they are still sending them even though the threat from piracy has diminished significantly. In addition to ships, China has also been sending Nuclear Attack submarines (SSNs) into the western Indian Ocean. As the Admiral noted, SSNs are “not the most effective tool to fight against pirates.”
The closer strategic engagement between the different arms of the governments including the militaries is a sign of the comfort and confidence that exist between India and France. This comfort level is demonstrated by the comments of an Indian official, who said that “France is a safe country for us, there will be no concerns in conducting joint patrols with them.” Thus, it is no surprise that France became the first country to have a Liaison Officer at the Indian Navy’s Information Fusion Centre (IFC-IOR).
France is one of the oldest, most trusted of India’s partners, possibly second only to Russia. But today with Russia having established an uncomfortably close relationship with China, India’s reliance on France has become that much greater. Even though India has traditionally remained uneasy with terms like alliance, Modi used the term to describe the relations with France at his speech at UNESCO in Paris, where he said, “Today in the 21st century, we talk of INFRA. I would like to say that for me it is IN+FRA, which means the alliance between India and France.”
This is a significant recognition of how much closer New Delhi and Paris have become even in the last few years. Some in the Indian strategic community discounted this as word play, but the reality is that the two countries’ strategic engagements have expanded and deepened in significant ways. The manner in which France backed India at the UN Security Council discussion on Jammu and Kashmir in 2019 is the latest indication of France’s strategic commitment to India. Russia used to be that reliable partner in the UN Security Council in the past but increasingly that spot is occupied by France (and of course, the United States).
While India and France have collaboration across a number of important sectors such as space, nuclear and defence, the particular focus on Indian Ocean and maritime security is significant. This is in line with India’s own changed vision for the Indian Ocean. In 2014, Prime Minister Modi made a pitch to India’s friends and strategic partners, saying “collective action and cooperation will best advance peace and security in our maritime region,” wherein India looks to key partners such as France and the United States in guaranteeing a stable maritime order in the Indian Ocean. This is a big shift from India’s earlier approach of criticizing the presence of any extra-regional powers in the Indian Ocean.
The recent CORPAT between Indian and French navies in Reunion Island became possible only because India and France signed an agreement in 2018 that would give reciprocal access to each other’s military facilities. This is similar to the logistics agreement, LEMOA, that India signed with the US. The agreement with France has expanded the presence and the type of naval operations that the Indian Navy is able to undertake in the western Indian Ocean. France has military facilities in the island of La Réunion, Mayotte, and the French Southern and Atlantic Lands. India’s pragmatic approach to Indian Ocean will go a long way in strengthening its operational manoeuvrability and creating more strategic options as it prepares to address a more muscular Chinese presence in the maritime spaces in India’s vicinity.
What’s Behind the Rising India-France Maritime Activity in the Indo-Pacific?
India and France converge in Indo-Pacific
India and France have converging interests in the Indo-Pacific. These range from strategic to economic and are based on fostering a rules-based, free, open and inclusive region.
Why France? Because it has a unique global positioning. Technically, it is in the Indo-Pacific, with its 12 overseas territories, stretching from Wallis and Futuna in the East Pacific to French Southern and Antarctic Lands in the western Indian Ocean. These overseas territories give France a border with every continent, and more significantly, with four of the five oceans.
France has an 8% share of the world’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) – more than any other. The underlining fact of 90% of French EEZs being in the Indo-Pacific makes France one of the major stakeholders in the region. To put things in perspective, India, with a coastline of over 7,400 km, has an EEZ of 2.37 million sq km, while France with a coastline of just over 3,300 km, has an EEZ of 4.5 million sq km. That means, France has 90% more EEZ than India with a coastline that is half its size.
The vulnerability of these overseas territories to geopolitical, social, economic or environmental crises is a major cause for concern for the French government. Compared with mainland France, the average individual contribution to GDP of the overseas territories is 40% lower, while the beneficiary share in social benefits is thrice as much and the unemployment rate twice as high. In 2018, France’s Finance Bill provided a credit of €17 billion for the overseas territories. It has a potential to increase in the coming years considering their strategic value.
There’s good reason for this. These overseas territories serve as ‘static aircraft carriers’ for France to project power in the region. This is now increasingly challenged by Chinese activities in the Indo-Pacific, which France sees as a threat to freedom of navigation and in conflict with its regional strategic interests. In the backdrop of an increasingly unreliable U.S. leadership on global issues, in 2018, President Macron proposed a new strategic alliance with Australia and India, and sought security ties with Japan to check Beijing’s regional ambitions. “The time of European naivete towards China is over,” Macron warned the European Council in March this year, signalling a harder China policy from France.
This statement was followed up by the deployment of the Charles de Gaulle, France’s sole naval carrier in the Indo-Pacific to conduct freedom of navigation operations.
Unlike other countries, India’s definition and interests in the Indo-Pacific stretch from the west African coast in the Indian Ocean to the South China Sea and Indonesia. It’s three core interests – trade, energy security and resources – run from the Malacca Strait to the Persian Gulf. Indian Ocean channels carry two-thirds of the world’s oil shipments, a third of the bulk cargo and half of all container traffic. The Indian Ocean littoral has the potential to be the leading source of global growth over the next 20 years, and it is here that Indo-French geo-strategic interests converge.
Like France, India also finds Chinese activities in the Indo-Pacific – more specifically in the Indian Ocean – a threat to its security and interests. Since 2008, China has significantly ramped up its presence in the Indian Ocean, always maintaining between six and eight ships in the region. The presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean for anti-piracy patrols is duplicitous: submarines are not anti-piracy platforms. Chinese intent in the South China Sea, East China Sea, Pacific Islands, specifically the Tulagi-Solomon Islands, Doklam, Hambantota, Gwadar, Djibouti and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), have resulted in India actively countering the Chinese ‘String of Pearls’ strategy by adopting a more proactive and balanced approach with its neighbours through diplomatic, strategic and economic action.
Diplomatically, the Act East, Look West, Neighbourhood First and launch of the Information Fusion Centre-Indian Ocean Region (IFC-IOR) in 2018, are efforts by India to bring greater consensus in the region towards a free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific. The IFC-IOR is the surveillance hub which links the maritime infrastructure of member nations. This is intended to develop real-time and accessible maritime domain awareness against maritime terrorism, piracy, human and contraband trafficking and illegal fishing.
Strategically, several bilateral or multilateral arrangements with members of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), Japan, Australia, Oman, and more recently, with the Vanilla Islands (Seychelles, Madagascar, Réunion, Mauritius, Comoros, Mayotte), are part of the proactive Indian approach. The signing of the logistics sharing agreements with France and the U.S. have brought the Djibouti, Abu Dhabi, Réunion Islands, Mayotte and Diego Garcia military bases within India’s strategic reach. India must now use its pivotal role in the Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA), Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) – both of which have Iran as a member – and the IFC-IOR to further strengthen its credibility in the Indian Ocean and beyond as a responsible and inclusive power.
Economically, a robust domestic economy will enable New Delhi to act as a facilitator for the security and growth of the region. Partnering with a strong Indian economy should be seen not only from a traditional trade balance perspective, but also through the lens of the counterbalance India provides against China, especially in the Indian Ocean. India’s participation in the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) will help integrate its economy with Asia’s. The current China-centred agreement will serve Asia better, with India’s inclusion. The recent statement by Japan, linking its own inclusion in RCEP with that of India’s, is a step in the right direction.
For the Indo-Pacific to emerge as a genuinely functional multilateral definition, it must overcome its own contradictions. The predictable Chinese expansion and the unpredictable U.S. policy in the Indo-Pacific and beyond remains the most significant risk to any regional powers in the Indo-Pacific.
Both countries also disregard international norms, China in the South China Sea, and the U.S. with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which it has not ratified to date. In Diego Garcia, the UK and U.S. have dismissed the May 2019 non-binding UN resolution asking the UK to relinquish control over the Indian Ocean islands, originally a part of Mauritius. Countries taking distinct sides in the great Indo-Pacific game may find themselves lost at sea in such an eventuality.
On numerous occasions, India and France have demonstrated a policy independent of both the U.S. and China. India’s decision to buy the S-400s from Russia, and French president Macron describing the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) as a “brain dead”[1] organisation, are indicative of this. Indo-French cooperation in this emerging geostrategic space of the Indo-Pacific can offer an alternative in the region. Their mutual interest in security, environment and economic areas, coupled with India’s stated intent to ensure Security And Growth for All in the Region (SAGAR), can offer a reliable and inclusive partnership for countries in the Indo-Pacific.
Since 1971, France has been a dependable friend.[2] It identified the potential of the Indo-France relationship especially in the Indo-Pacific. The defence policy document, France and Security in the Indo-Pacific, published in 2018, lists India as a primary partner for regional stability, a view that French Ambassador to India, Emmanuel Lenain, reiterated on the eve of the 4th Indo-French Maritime Security Dialogue. [3] France’s permanent placement of a liaison officer at the IFC-IOR in December 2019, and announcements to undertake joint patrols in the Southern Indian Ocean and enter into a classified information sharing agreement [4] with India by early 2020, augur well for this deepening relationship.
www.gatewayhouse.in
India and France have converging interests in the Indo-Pacific. These range from strategic to economic and are based on fostering a rules-based, free, open and inclusive region.
Why France? Because it has a unique global positioning. Technically, it is in the Indo-Pacific, with its 12 overseas territories, stretching from Wallis and Futuna in the East Pacific to French Southern and Antarctic Lands in the western Indian Ocean. These overseas territories give France a border with every continent, and more significantly, with four of the five oceans.
France has an 8% share of the world’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) – more than any other. The underlining fact of 90% of French EEZs being in the Indo-Pacific makes France one of the major stakeholders in the region. To put things in perspective, India, with a coastline of over 7,400 km, has an EEZ of 2.37 million sq km, while France with a coastline of just over 3,300 km, has an EEZ of 4.5 million sq km. That means, France has 90% more EEZ than India with a coastline that is half its size.
The vulnerability of these overseas territories to geopolitical, social, economic or environmental crises is a major cause for concern for the French government. Compared with mainland France, the average individual contribution to GDP of the overseas territories is 40% lower, while the beneficiary share in social benefits is thrice as much and the unemployment rate twice as high. In 2018, France’s Finance Bill provided a credit of €17 billion for the overseas territories. It has a potential to increase in the coming years considering their strategic value.
There’s good reason for this. These overseas territories serve as ‘static aircraft carriers’ for France to project power in the region. This is now increasingly challenged by Chinese activities in the Indo-Pacific, which France sees as a threat to freedom of navigation and in conflict with its regional strategic interests. In the backdrop of an increasingly unreliable U.S. leadership on global issues, in 2018, President Macron proposed a new strategic alliance with Australia and India, and sought security ties with Japan to check Beijing’s regional ambitions. “The time of European naivete towards China is over,” Macron warned the European Council in March this year, signalling a harder China policy from France.
This statement was followed up by the deployment of the Charles de Gaulle, France’s sole naval carrier in the Indo-Pacific to conduct freedom of navigation operations.
Unlike other countries, India’s definition and interests in the Indo-Pacific stretch from the west African coast in the Indian Ocean to the South China Sea and Indonesia. It’s three core interests – trade, energy security and resources – run from the Malacca Strait to the Persian Gulf. Indian Ocean channels carry two-thirds of the world’s oil shipments, a third of the bulk cargo and half of all container traffic. The Indian Ocean littoral has the potential to be the leading source of global growth over the next 20 years, and it is here that Indo-French geo-strategic interests converge.
Like France, India also finds Chinese activities in the Indo-Pacific – more specifically in the Indian Ocean – a threat to its security and interests. Since 2008, China has significantly ramped up its presence in the Indian Ocean, always maintaining between six and eight ships in the region. The presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean for anti-piracy patrols is duplicitous: submarines are not anti-piracy platforms. Chinese intent in the South China Sea, East China Sea, Pacific Islands, specifically the Tulagi-Solomon Islands, Doklam, Hambantota, Gwadar, Djibouti and the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), have resulted in India actively countering the Chinese ‘String of Pearls’ strategy by adopting a more proactive and balanced approach with its neighbours through diplomatic, strategic and economic action.
Diplomatically, the Act East, Look West, Neighbourhood First and launch of the Information Fusion Centre-Indian Ocean Region (IFC-IOR) in 2018, are efforts by India to bring greater consensus in the region towards a free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific. The IFC-IOR is the surveillance hub which links the maritime infrastructure of member nations. This is intended to develop real-time and accessible maritime domain awareness against maritime terrorism, piracy, human and contraband trafficking and illegal fishing.
Strategically, several bilateral or multilateral arrangements with members of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), Japan, Australia, Oman, and more recently, with the Vanilla Islands (Seychelles, Madagascar, Réunion, Mauritius, Comoros, Mayotte), are part of the proactive Indian approach. The signing of the logistics sharing agreements with France and the U.S. have brought the Djibouti, Abu Dhabi, Réunion Islands, Mayotte and Diego Garcia military bases within India’s strategic reach. India must now use its pivotal role in the Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA), Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) – both of which have Iran as a member – and the IFC-IOR to further strengthen its credibility in the Indian Ocean and beyond as a responsible and inclusive power.
Economically, a robust domestic economy will enable New Delhi to act as a facilitator for the security and growth of the region. Partnering with a strong Indian economy should be seen not only from a traditional trade balance perspective, but also through the lens of the counterbalance India provides against China, especially in the Indian Ocean. India’s participation in the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) will help integrate its economy with Asia’s. The current China-centred agreement will serve Asia better, with India’s inclusion. The recent statement by Japan, linking its own inclusion in RCEP with that of India’s, is a step in the right direction.
For the Indo-Pacific to emerge as a genuinely functional multilateral definition, it must overcome its own contradictions. The predictable Chinese expansion and the unpredictable U.S. policy in the Indo-Pacific and beyond remains the most significant risk to any regional powers in the Indo-Pacific.
Both countries also disregard international norms, China in the South China Sea, and the U.S. with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which it has not ratified to date. In Diego Garcia, the UK and U.S. have dismissed the May 2019 non-binding UN resolution asking the UK to relinquish control over the Indian Ocean islands, originally a part of Mauritius. Countries taking distinct sides in the great Indo-Pacific game may find themselves lost at sea in such an eventuality.
On numerous occasions, India and France have demonstrated a policy independent of both the U.S. and China. India’s decision to buy the S-400s from Russia, and French president Macron describing the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) as a “brain dead”[1] organisation, are indicative of this. Indo-French cooperation in this emerging geostrategic space of the Indo-Pacific can offer an alternative in the region. Their mutual interest in security, environment and economic areas, coupled with India’s stated intent to ensure Security And Growth for All in the Region (SAGAR), can offer a reliable and inclusive partnership for countries in the Indo-Pacific.
Since 1971, France has been a dependable friend.[2] It identified the potential of the Indo-France relationship especially in the Indo-Pacific. The defence policy document, France and Security in the Indo-Pacific, published in 2018, lists India as a primary partner for regional stability, a view that French Ambassador to India, Emmanuel Lenain, reiterated on the eve of the 4th Indo-French Maritime Security Dialogue. [3] France’s permanent placement of a liaison officer at the IFC-IOR in December 2019, and announcements to undertake joint patrols in the Southern Indian Ocean and enter into a classified information sharing agreement [4] with India by early 2020, augur well for this deepening relationship.
India and France converge in Indo-Pacific - Gateway House
India and France have converging interests in the Indo-Pacific – diplomatic, strategic and economic. The 4th Indo-French Maritime Security Dialogue held in New Delhi in December 2019 was an example of major bilateral cooperation. By working together, the two countries became the model for...
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Skill India Establishes First Centre of Excellence for Skill Development in Power Sector
In a significant development and in line with the commitment to skill development and vocational training, the Ministry of Skill Development and Entrepreneurship, Government of India, the Ministry of National Education and Youth, Government of the French Republic and Schneider Electric, today announced the inauguration of first Center of Excellence(CoE) for skill development in power sector in the campus of National Institute of Solar Energy (NISE) located at Gwal Pahari, Gurugram (Haryana)to create a robust cadre of certified trainers and assessors across the country.The CoE has high-end modern labs designed keeping in mind the future technology, which will further strengthen India and France's relationship in energy sector. Union Minister of State for Power (I/C), New & Renewable Energy (I/C) and Minister of State for Skill Development and Entrepreneurship, Shri Raj Kumar Singh inaugurated the Centre of Excellence virtually today, in presence of guest of honour, Mr. Daniel Maitre, Minister-Counsellor for Economic and Financial Affairs, Head of the Regional Economic Department for India and South Asia.
The establishment of CoE is a result of the MoU signed earlier between MSDE, Ministry of Education-France and Schneider Electric. Further, an operational MoU was signed between National Skill Development Corporation (NSDC), Schneider Electric India Foundation (SEIF), Power Sector Skill Council (PSSC) and National Institute of Solar Energy (NISE) for establishment of the centre, and to undertake high level training and skill development in the field of power and solar.
Inaugurating theCoE, Shri. Raj Kumar Singh, Union Minister of State for Power (I/C), New & Renewable Energy (I/C) and Minister of State for Skill Development said, “India is taking rapid strides to move towards renewable energy to accelerate economic development, improve energy security and energy access while mitigating climate change challenges too. Our success in achieving all of these demands for a rich pool of workforce in the energy sector to propel India to become one of the top leaders in the world’s renewable energy market. Sustained efforts towards boosting the growth of renewable energy sector will play a significant role in helping us inch closer to fulfill Hon’ble Prime Minister’s vision of ‘Aatmanirbhar Bharat’. Our partnership with Government of France for instituting the Centre of Excellence is another shining example of cooperation between the countries to achieve their long-terms energy goals.”
The CoE will focus on creating a pool of highly skilled trainers and assessors for further training to increase employability of candidates in the field of Electricity, Automation and Solar Energy Sectors. The centre will design and deliver Training for Trainers, Instructors, Training of Assessors and other high-end program in the power and solar sector.
Established in an area of 4,000 sq.ft., the project received contribution of land from NISE to host the CoE at their campus. The CoE will be equipped with two labs, which have been set up by Schneider Electric as a part of its CSR initiative. The Advance Electrician Lab is equipped with specially designed instruments for training in home and building, and industry installation and automation. The Solar Lab will provide hands on practical training on latest technology in solar area. With the launch of CoE, online training of assessors will commence which will include trainers from all over the country. In addition, training of youth is also being considered in the center. Power Sector Skill Council, which will be managing the operations of the centre, has also developed necessary learning contents for various job roles in generation, transmission, distribution and downstream sub sectors to facilitate learning. The Department of Education, France- deputed an expert to India for three years to conceptualise, design and head the proposed CoE. He has contributed by proposing the layout, guidelines, and best practices in electrical domain. National Skill Development Corporationhas been a facilitator to all the stakeholders and is providing professional guidance for the project.
Skill India Establishes First Centre of Excellence for Skill Development in Power Sector
In a significant development and in line with the commitment to skill development and vocational tra
pib.gov.in
