India and France will extend their ground-breaking defence cooperation in advanced aeronautical technologies by supporting the joint development of a combat aircraft engine.
Pure BS! Heard about Vikash rocket and its impact on our space sector? Go figure...I am pretty sure anyone who has read any history of india - france relations would know that this is just a mercantile partnership. This partnership is to be thrown under the bus at a convinient time. Political chamchas may praise or dance on twitter, but thats just politics. No one takes them seriously. I just read somewhere that French used to spy on indian PMO and pass off intel to the americans as americans didn't have direct/good enough relations with India. That just shows you the reality of Indo-French relationship. India just buys military hardware and France sells it. Thats pretty much the extent of this give and take relationship. On top of that Macron goes out of his way to court China, which is India's geopolitical enemy, but nobody in india cares. That should show you that Indian establishment doesn't have any ideological coherence with France cause if Biden courted Xi, alarm bells would be ringing in south block.
Also, France was quite happy selling weapons to both India & Pakistan(just like sweden, italy, etc) despite pakistan's (NATO backed) multiple invasions of India. It was The Karachi Affair where things between France & Pakistan went sour as pakistanis blew up 11 french technicians to pieces due to "bribing gone wrong". There wasn't any ideological alignment with india that stopped france-pakistan cooperation. Plus they knew they would make more money if they sold weapons exclusively to India as pakistan was open to superior american weapons or chinese weapons if they had no other option.
If you want to take the moral stand of democracy, then why ignore France's Neo-colonialism in Africa? I was appalled when I saw Caspian-Report's video on this topic. How can a post-colonial state like india have friendly relations with the disgusting French State(irrespective of whichever party is in power)? The least Indians could do for africans is to NOT empower/enrich their oppressors.
Lastly, the whole point of buying french weapons was india's aversion to american weapons. India bought Rafale because india couldn't buy F-15/35. Rafale was the most competent plane available to india. It wasn't the best plane out there. But as India-America relations are on an upswing, why not just buy F-35? F-35C would be a better fit for Vikrant than Rafale. F-35 is anyday a superior plane. As it turns out F-35 would have been cheaper as well because of larger production order. Why all this drama of avoiding american jets if we are anyways gonna partner with them against China. This would also reduce trade deficit with US , in turn reducing american anxiety. Indo-French trade is paltry in comparison. We are again creating a hollow relationship with France like we did with Russia, just one-dimensional weapons trade. This would again create dependencies on france(like russia right now) with which we don't have any coherence alignment and would bite us in the *censored* one day(like it is doing today).
Except it's pure bullshit.If you want to take the moral stand of democracy, then why ignore France's Neo-colonialism in Africa? I was appalled when I saw Caspian-Report's video on this topic.
(libé, june20 2009)
I am pretty sure anyone who has read any history of india - france relations would know that this is just a mercantile partnership. This partnership is to be thrown under the bus at a convinient time. Political chamchas may praise or dance on twitter, but thats just politics. No one takes them seriously. I just read somewhere that French used to spy on indian PMO and pass off intel to the americans as americans didn't have direct/good enough relations with India. That just shows you the reality of Indo-French relationship. India just buys military hardware and France sells it. Thats pretty much the extent of this give and take relationship. On top of that Macron goes out of his way to court China, which is India's geopolitical enemy, but nobody in india cares. That should show you that Indian establishment doesn't have any ideological coherence with France cause if Biden courted Xi, alarm bells would be ringing in south block.
Also, France was quite happy selling weapons to both India & Pakistan(just like sweden, italy, etc) despite pakistan's (NATO backed) multiple invasions of India. It was The Karachi Affair where things between France & Pakistan went sour as pakistanis blew up 11 french technicians to pieces due to "bribing gone wrong". There wasn't any ideological alignment with india that stopped france-pakistan cooperation. Plus they knew they would make more money if they sold weapons exclusively to India as pakistan was open to superior american weapons or chinese weapons if they had no other option.
If you want to take the moral stand of democracy, then why ignore France's Neo-colonialism in Africa? I was appalled when I saw Caspian-Report's video on this topic. How can a post-colonial state like india have friendly relations with the disgusting French State(irrespective of whichever party is in power)? The least Indians could do for africans is to NOT empower/enrich their oppressors.
Lastly, the whole point of buying french weapons was india's aversion to american weapons. India bought Rafale because india couldn't buy F-15/35. Rafale was the most competent plane available to india. It wasn't the best plane out there. But as India-America relations are on an upswing, why not just buy F-35? F-35C would be a better fit for Vikrant than Rafale. F-35 is anyday a superior plane. As it turns out F-35 would have been cheaper as well because of larger production order. Why all this drama of avoiding american jets if we are anyways gonna partner with them against China. This would also reduce trade deficit with US , in turn reducing american anxiety. Indo-French trade is paltry in comparison. We are again creating a hollow relationship with France like we did with Russia, just one-dimensional weapons trade. This would again create dependencies on france(like russia right now) with which we don't have any coherence alignment and would bite us in the *censored* one day(like it is doing today).
Don't dickride so hard that the obvious reality is obscured. No way in hell is your shitty Rafale even comparable to an actual 5th gen F-35. Finland's acquisition of F-35 silenced all the Rafale fanboys anyway.Pure BS! Heard about Vikash rocket and its impact on our space sector? Go figure...
And Rafale is anyday better than any US plane. F-35 has really one advantage over it and that is passive stealth. But Rafale has means to be almost equally effective using low flying and SPECTRA/active cancellation. Plus with Meteor it can flush out an area and hunt down High Value Targets from far away. For us, Rafale is the best plane.
For F-15, we already have a superior F-15 with us and its name is MKI. We don't need the American Eagle. Thanks but no thanks.
Any sources?
What you're smoking looks good. pls share the phone number of your dealer.
I don't think you understand, this makes you look worse.(libé, june20 2009)
The clandestine revenge of the DGSE
France is said to have killed one of its blackmailers and wounded three others in retaliation.
France allegedly killed one of its blackmailers and wounded three others in retaliation.In the spring of 2002, when relations with the Pakistani military were deteriorating over unpaid commissions, the French government applied the law of retaliation through the Service Action of the DGSE (Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure), a military unit specialising in clandestine operations, as first reported by the Mediapart information website."Retortion". According to information in the investigation file, a Service Action team was sent to Pakistan at the time of the Karachi attack to "apply retaliatory measures", on the grounds that "France cannot be blackmailed". The judges in charge of the investigation, Marc Trévidic and Yves Jannier, confirmed the existence of this hypothesis when they met the families of the victims in Cherbourg on Thursday. According to information obtained by Libération, this punitive expedition consisted of breaking the legs of three Pakistani admirals and killing a lower-ranking soldier.The episode, unknown until recently, led to discussions between the victims' families and magistrates in Cherbourg on Thursday. A witness to this exchange said that the judges still seemed to be wondering about the date of the operation.Bomb. It could have taken place between March and April, after the French embassy in Islamabad had received a warning in the form of a defused bomb to stop the blackmail - but to no avail. In addition to the fact that vengeance is no substitute for justice, the case shows the magistrates that there were decision-makers within the French security apparatus who knew the blackmailers./deepl
Rafale is better for our needs. No thanks to fatty aka F-35./Don't dickride so hard that the obvious reality is obscured. No way in hell is your shitty Rafale even comparable to an actual 5th gen F-35. Finland's acquisition of F-35 silenced all the Rafale fanboys anyway.
Raman, whose revelations about the episode feature in his new book The Kaoboys of R&AW, said "the whole world was shocked by the ease with which two French intelligence officers, assisted by their Polish counterparts, had penetrated the PMO and removed tonnes and tonnes of documents. It was alleged that they were so sure that nothing would happen to them that they used to go to the PMO on Sundays and other holidays, go through all the files and papers, take out what was of interest to them and took out photocopies using the photocopying machine of the PMO and the photocopying papers of the PMO. It was a scandal of unbelievable proportions."
In an article which is to appear shortly on the website of strategic think-tank South Asia Analysis Group, he said the scandal assumed such proportions that Rajiv Gandhi had to make a statement in Parliament and his and his mother's Principal Secretary, P C Alexander, had to resign.
The investigations revealed that the French and other collaborating intelligence agencies "operated through Yogesh T Maneklal, then Managing Director of Maneklal Industries Limited of Mumbai, who had extensive contacts at the lower levels of the PMO, the President's Office and other ministries and persuaded many government servants to work for the French intelligence".
Besides Maneklal, who was given a 14-year prison term, the former RAW officer named 12 government officers who were sentenced to imprisonment for 10 years by the court of Additional Sessions Judge R K Gauba.
Maintaining that all these details were available in parliamentary and court records, Raman said "One is surprised and disturbed that within 25 years of this disgraceful betrayal, most of our national security managers and so-called strategic analysts have forgotten about it. When I draw attention to this, some in the media accuse me of disseminating claims without corroboration, others ridicule me by comparing me with (former external affairs minister) Jaswant Singh, and some others attribute motives to me. This is why we face national security disasters again and again and again. A nation, which has no memory for the past, is bound to repeat its mistakes in the future," Raman, who retired in 1994 as additional secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, said in the article.
Observing that there was unusual "excitement or skepticism" on the issue in some TV channels and a section of the media, Raman said: "We are a nation with no memory. That is why national security lapses keep overtaking us at regular intervals and we keep drifting from one disaster to another."
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French intelligence penetrated PMO in Indira's tenure: Raman | India News - Times of India
India News: B Raman, a former intelligence officer, has said that the French intelligence penetrated the Prime Minister's Office when Indira Gandhi was in office.timesofindia.indiatimes.com
I actually advocate for downgrading of relations with France. Have some decency, how can a post-colonial Indian State have good relations with a neo-colonial France? If you have US locked in a strategic partnership, why even bother with such a middle power(FR)? France was always the go-to because India-US relations were bad, now that India-US relations are good, whats the utility of France?
I bet 5 years from India will anyway procure F-35, since it would be the only navy in QUAD not having F-35. All other common equipment will work in tandem like P-8s, Sea Guardians, MH-60 but Rafales will stick out like a sore thumb. The whole point of QUAD was inter-operability and joint ops with their navies.
Exactly! Transfer of Vikas engine wouldn't have been possible without French govt. approval. And this was cutting edge technology at the time. France will sell us their current tech like the Rafale whereas US govt. wants to pawn off ageing platforms like F18s and F16/21s which are on the verge of being retired from their own arsenal. Hypothetically if the Americans were to agree to sell F35s today, then we could say maybe our co-operation with them is on the same level as with France.Pure BS! Heard about Vikash rocket and its impact on our space sector? Go figure...
And Rafale is anyday better than any US plane. F-35 has really one advantage over it and that is passive stealth. But Rafale has means to be almost equally effective using low flying and SPECTRA/active cancellation. Plus with Meteor it can flush out an area and hunt down High Value Targets from far away. For us, Rafale is the best plane.
For F-15, we already have a superior F-15 with us and its name is MKI. We don't need the American Eagle. Thanks but no thanks.