India-Nepal Relations

[Bali78]

That is another threat. Why would you allow some one else pouring in money and you giving access to your backyard be it US or Japan.

You consider Japan as a threat ?? Paranoia should have some limits. If Japan or US financially help Sri Lanka, how exactly that translates to "Access to our backyard"?

Even if I agree with your line of argument, then Japan is already firmly placed inside India. Do you know how many projects are currently funded by "JICA" in India?

 

[screambowl]

If Japan or US financially help Sri Lanka, how exactly that translates to "Access to our backyard"?

The main problem during LTTE was they sought third party help, this would have allowed the thrid party influence in the region and access to the island. A sovereign country does not allow any , be it any kind of thrid party involvement in backyard. As soon these funding become covert.

Even if I agree with your line of argument, then Japan is already firmly placed inside India. Do you know how many projects are currently funded by "JICA" in India

Give me one good reason why would Japan and US financially help Sri Lanka when their area of interest is SCS.

Although there are some initiatives like

• Investing in Colombo and Trincomalee is part of Japan’s plan to promote peace and co-operation
• Sri Lanka is an important trade partner where the trade volume is more than $1 billion per year
• Bilateral relations have been further strengthened with the recently signed five-year joint comprehensive partnership agreement between the two countries
• Sri Lanka is considered as an important partner in the free and open Indo-Pacific strategy
• Sri Lanka’s geostrategic location is important to Japan as well as the whole Indo-Pacific region.

But nothing comes for free

Japan sought assistance from Sri Lanka in the implementation of UN sanctions against North Korea. How important is Sri Lanka in this issue?
International sanctions can’t be effectively implemented unless all UN members are genuinely committed to them. Sri Lanka and Japan share the same values such as democracy and international rule and law. Sri Lanka as a responsible nation continuously affirms its commitment to nuclear disarmament, nuclear non- proliferation and peaceful use of nuclear energy. In addition, as a maritime nation, Sri Lanka connects maritime routes from west and east. Therefore, Sri Lanka’s role in implementing UN sanction is important.

 

[Bali78]

The main problem during LTTE was they sought third party help, this would have allowed the thrid party influence in the region and access to the island. A sovereign country does not allow any , be it any kind of thrid party involvement in backyard. As soon these funding become covert.

What are you trying to convey here??

Give me one good reason why would Japan and US financially help Sri Lanka when their area of interest is SCS.

And you think US is not interested in Indian Ocean region ??

 

[screambowl]

What are you trying to convey here??


And you think US is not interested in Indian Ocean region ??

When it comes to geopolitics you need to have your interests secured. And Indian interest is simple, no third country in India's backyard.

 

[Arbit]

It's not China which will negotiate with India for supply lines it's the Nepal or in case Bhutan ( for example) which will negotiate with India. And there you go Chinese will play their game that India is not allowing a land locked country to export it's power to other nations.

Wait and watch!

Your assessment is incorrect. Electricity isn't an agriculture produce grown in farms through legitimate means, where refusal to grant access can result in resentment.
Power generation plants when financed by loans from a competing power (say China) are strategic calls. Especially so when the other country (India) has let her objections known.
So if they still want to go with financing from china and smack India in the face, they shouldn't and probably wouldn't be hoping for any concession either through power purchasing agreement and through land route access. Its as simple.

Sometimes a 'don't mess with us' message is necessary to be passed on to friend and foes alike from time to time.

 

[Srinivas]

No they are doing it in Bangladesh. This is their plan. generate power in Bhutan and Nepal export it to Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar and even India if it agrees.

Bangladesh can only buy power if India allows the transmission lines to pass through it, which India will not.

Bhutan is a small country and they are more concentrating on tourism than industries.

 

[Notsuperstitious]

The more nepalis try to antagonise us, the more they fcuk their country. Unko izzat raas nahi aati to they can fcuk themselves who cares?

One more dumb nation on our periphery but with v little geographical leverage. We can give then respect, opportunities etc but cant give them brains can we?

All of south america hates the US, does it matter?

 

[Bali78]

I guess the answer to this one will be revealed in due course .

True. There are so many variables involved that predicting actual outcome is next to impossible. Any change in political/economic conditions in any of the concerned countries might steer it in completely unexpected way.

 

[screambowl]

So if they still want to go with financing from china and smack India in the face, they shouldn't and probably wouldn't be hoping for any concession either through power purchasing agreement and through land route access. Its as simple

And most of the members are still not able to deduce what I said. I kept a point that these projects are not exactly for power generation but to bribe the government of Nepal. In terms of payment which would be loan, they will create assets in Nepal through these project, they will station their people there. A dam can be used not just for power but also for various purposes. It can also be used to divert water from tributaries joining kosi and many other tasks. They really need not to sell electricity.

 

[Nilgiri]

Good message by Modi. Support it 100%.

 

[Butter Chicken]

India wants a common Nepal-Bhutan-BD-India electricity grid,but for that such Chinese adventures will have to controlled

 

[Ashutosh]

This is your wrong perception. And data is irrelevant.
I have been to bangladesh and from construction of buildings to houses and textile machinery everything there is Chinese and they are really doing good. Dhaka has moved ahead of Kolkata when it comes to development. Had they remained in Indian sphere they would have remained underdeveloped that is the perception of Bangladeshis and slowly Nepalese too going to have the similar perception about India.

Data is irrelevant??? well what can I say, In information age if one has the audacity to say this... SMH. Data is everything, literally. You don't like it because it chucks you out of your skwed perception. Like it or not, data is what reality present itself through.

Strange that you went to Bangladesh and Saw Chinese Capital eqipment, they were not Chinese investment but bought by BDeshis, with their own hard eraned money. Have you been to India ? have you seen our Coal based Power Plants by Independent Power Producers ? almost all built after 2007 are Chinese and they are huge in numbers. Also Capital equipment are produced by China at such cheap prices any other country will not be able compete with it. Unless it is technology Chinese haven't been able to copy.

As far as Kolkata is concerned it was dead a long time ago.. almost since early 90s... the Left front Government killed every bloody industry (textiles, jute, heavy engineering and metal) in the state through politicizing labor unions. Killed its education by saying computers take jobs away and didn't introduce Computer Science in Schools curriculum till 2006. Basic English was taught in Class 7. Jabalpur is better than Kolkata in such terms.

I am from Kolkata was born and brought-up there, so spare me the BS, I have seen my home state die at the Left-Red-Commie hands. Its beyond redemption, CM didi is just keeping it on life support, I hope she is successful. Kolkata is not an equivalent to rest of India. Have you seen the textile industry in Surat, or the diamond industry or ever been to Jamshedpur ?

The problem is neither we develop ourselves nor we let others develop with dirty politics. This is a very common perception about Indians.

Politics is dirty when we do it... is it benign when China does it ? We have perception extremes like self guilt and mental inhibition/ remorse in acting in self interest... or overtly proud on no foundation. when China bullies its neighbors in SCS , does its perception take a positive rating ? when we do it is dirty politics. You can spare the self flagellation.

Realization hitting me now that, People rather be perceived good than smart, even if the smart decision does work more in favor rather than perception of just being morally superior.

You haven't got the point I am making.
I said, even the opposition was never pro Chinese a decade back now they are and that's a major threat. One of the major party in all neighbouring countries is Pro China. That is the point.

That makes other major political party Pro-India. Isn't it ? It's a world where all is fair, Chinese will win some moves.

Oh really well about that PA guy where was Indian presence when whole of the royal family died. I don't want to talk much and reveal things.
How many so called secret pursuits you have known of this magnitude? And how many Sukma's happened before?

Perception of yours that the glass is always empty, its your cognitive bias that is.... PA guy is a non issue but Jadav abduction was end of the world isn't it? The Royal family members were killed/assassinated in 2001 (Yeah that was a failure and so there were others) you could have also put in what about Kargil, or what about when we got invaded in 62, or \the attack on parliament, or Operation Parakram... see...

Also, You know Nothing about NE Insurgency because probably news never reached there, so it never happened. Isn't it ? You still are not able to digest the point that We have never been better in NE, That we have better realtions with Myanmar, than what we are today. Some data and information are not to be in the public domain. as far as NE is concerned, @Aashish will concur, over the last decade Situation has dramatically improved. Sukmas were quite common in through 60-80s.

 

[screambowl]

you went to Bangladesh and Saw Chinese Capital eqipment, they were not Chinese investment but bought by BDeshis, with their own hard eraned money.

Those machines and equipment were taken on loan and they bought it from Chinese market on easy instalment, they didn't come to India because we re thugs. Nor we have capability to produce or fulfil the demands of B'deshis when it come to tool and infrastructure.

This solely means that a country would rather ask China to build things for them than India. Weren't Indians going to China to build their bullet train??

have you seen our Coal based Power Plants by Independent Power Producers ? almost all built after 2007 are Chinese and they are huge in numbers

Then who the hell on earth you are to show your anger when China is developing Nepal's powerplant. You own Nepal??

As far as Kolkata is concerned it was dead a long time ago.. almost since early 90s... the Left front Government killed every bloody industry (textiles, jute, heavy engineering and metal) in the state through politicizing labor unions. Killed its education by saying computers take jobs away and didn't introduce Computer Science in Schools curriculum till 2006. Basic English was taught in Class 7. Jabalpur is better than Kolkata in such terms.

I am from Kolkata was born and brought-up there, so spare me the BS, I have seen my home state die at the Left-Red-Commie hands. Its beyond redemption, CM didi is just keeping it on life support, I hope she is successful. Kolkata is not an equivalent to rest of India. Have you seen the textile industry in Surat, or the diamond industry or ever been to Jamshedpur ?

It was dead not because of CPI or whatever , it was dead because of Bengali mentality of unnecessarily argument arrogance and baseless debates talk talk no task. And it's going to remain like this till eternity.

Computers and english don't give you job, your talent to work and skills give you job.

We are diverting from topic.

That makes other major political party Pro-India. Isn't it ? It's a world where all is fair, Chinese will win some moves.

No, they are uncertain.

when China bullies its neighbors in SCS , does its perception take a positive rating ? when we do it is dirty politics. You can spare the self flagellation.

Yes it takes a positive rating because Chinese have industry and huge economy, they have worked hard, they can anyhow bring in development. When India does it, well India first need to develop itself and clean its roads before civilizing others.

This is the perception of the world.

The Royal family members were killed/assassinated in 2001 (Yeah that was a failure and so there were others) you could have also put in what about Kargil, or what about when we got invaded in 62, or \the attack on parliament, or Operation Parakram... see..

There is a difference. 62, Op parakram, parliament Kargil happened on Indian main land. The royal killings happened on foreign soil Which gives a message that India can't safeguard it's assets.

So many failures you have already enlisted, whose going to listen India lol.

You still are not able to digest the point that We have never been better in NE, That we have better realtions with Myanmar, than what we are today. Some data and information are not to be in the public domain. as far as NE is concerned, @Aashish will concur, over the last decade Situation has dramatically improved. Sukmas were quite common in through 60-80s.

Better in NE? Then why don't you move to NE and open a business there lol. You would come to know.

 

[bonobashi]

Data is irrelevant??? well what can I say, In information age if one has the audacity to say this... SMH. Data is everything, literally. You don't like it because it chucks you out of your skwed perception. Like it or not, data is what reality present itself through.

Strange that you went to Bangladesh and Saw Chinese Capital eqipment, they were not Chinese investment but bought by BDeshis, with their own hard eraned money. Have you been to India ? have you seen our Coal based Power Plants by Independent Power Producers ? almost all built after 2007 are Chinese and they are huge in numbers. Also Capital equipment are produced by China at such cheap prices any other country will not be able compete with it. Unless it is technology Chinese haven't been able to copy.

As far as Kolkata is concerned it was dead a long time ago.. almost since early 90s... the Left front Government killed every bloody industry (textiles, jute, heavy engineering and metal) in the state through politicizing labor unions. Killed its education by saying computers take jobs away and didn't introduce Computer Science in Schools curriculum till 2006. Basic English was taught in Class 7. Jabalpur is better than Kolkata in such terms.

I am from Kolkata was born and brought-up there, so spare me the BS, I have seen my home state die at the Left-Red-Commie hands. Its beyond redemption, CM didi is just keeping it on life support, I hope she is successful. Kolkata is not an equivalent to rest of India. Have you seen the textile industry in Surat, or the diamond industry or ever been to Jamshedpur ?



Politics is dirty when we do it... is it benign when China does it ? We have perception extremes like self guilt and mental inhibition/ remorse in acting in self interest... or overtly proud on no foundation. when China bullies its neighbors in SCS , does its perception take a positive rating ? when we do it is dirty politics. You can spare the self flagellation.

Realization hitting me now that, People rather be perceived good than smart, even if the smart decision does work more in favor rather than perception of just being morally superior.



That makes other major political party Pro-India. Isn't it ? It's a world where all is fair, Chinese will win some moves.



Perception of yours that the glass is always empty, its your cognitive bias that is.... PA guy is a non issue but Jadav abduction was end of the world isn't it? The Royal family members were killed/assassinated in 2001 (Yeah that was a failure and so there were others) you could have also put in what about Kargil, or what about when we got invaded in 62, or \the attack on parliament, or Operation Parakram... see...

Also, You know Nothing about NE Insurgency because probably news never reached there, so it never happened. Isn't it ? You still are not able to digest the point that We have never been better in NE, That we have better realtions with Myanmar, than what we are today. Some data and information are not to be in the public domain. as far as NE is concerned, @Aashish will concur, over the last decade Situation has dramatically improved. Sukmas were quite common in through 60-80s.

Good arguments, but they aren't going to work; not over here, anyway. There are some bozos who know everything and don't need any additional information that might confuse them. See the following post.

As was said by a very wise man in a different context, what we just read is:"....unnecessarily(sic) argument arrogance and baseless debates talk talk no task. And it's going to remain like this till eternity. "

Indeed.

We were quite taken up by his bullshit until he said that.

 

[Ashutosh]

Those machines and equipment were taken on loan and they bought it from Chinese market on easy instalment, they didn't come to India because we re thugs. Nor we have capability to produce or fulfil the demands of B'deshis when it come to tool and infrastructure.

This solely means that a country would rather ask China to build things for them than India. Weren't Indians going to China to build their bullet train??

You don't get the simple fact that Chinese goods are more cost effective than any country on the planet. Private loans and sovereign loans are different. We are thugs and Chinese are Angels riding on Unicorns ? I mean wow, that's radically daft even for you!!

Then who the hell on earth you are to show your anger when China is developing Nepal's powerplant. You own Nepal??

Nepal if free to chose who will build its dams. We are free to chose who we will buy Energy from. Why should we not pursue our influence or capacity to Influence Neighborhood ? China does it. Why Should we not?

It was dead not because of CPI or whatever , it was dead because of Bengali mentality of unnecessarily argument arrogance and baseless debates talk talk no task. And it's going to remain like this till eternity.

Yeah... Rank Xenophobia right there. Your hatred for an ethnicity is unbound.

Computers and english don't give you job, your talent to work and skills give you job.

We are diverting from topic.

Yeah, Computers dont give one jobs... try working in corporate or even in government environment without computers, while the world is literally being run on IT and Tech. Talent doesn't grow on trees, It comes through education. CPI Govt didn't even update the curriculum for 20 damn years.

No, they are uncertain.

Really? Wow.. logical progression of an argument.

Yes it takes a positive rating because Chinese have industry and huge economy, they have worked hard, they can anyhow bring in development. When India does it, well India first need to develop itself and clean its roads before civilizing others.

This is the perception of the world.

I think that's more a case of you having self worth as an Indian, than what the world perceives of India. First India then worry about the world ? Are you arguing that India should have no foreign policy till it becomes industrialized ? Amazing logic, that China is fine in usurping Sovereignty because it has more money and good economy, so it becomes divine. So if anyone has more money they are free to do what ever they want?

There is a difference. 62, Op parakram, parliament Kargil happened on Indian main land. The royal killings happened on foreign soil Which gives a message that India can't safeguard it's assets.

So many failures you have already enlisted, whose going to listen India lol.

Wins and failures are part of the game there are no final out comes this run perpetually in Foreign policy. No outcome is final outcome.

Better in NE? Then why don't you move to NE and open a business there lol. You would come to know.

NE's security situation has improved a lot in last few years. Economy also has but, I guess this statement of yours is just a rant ad hominem, than a logical argument which you simply seem to be incapable of putting forward.

 

[Ashutosh]

Good arguments, but they aren't going to work; not over here, anyway. There are some bozos who know everything and don't need any additional information that might confuse them. See the following post.

As was said by a very wise man in a different context, what we just read is:"....unnecessarily(sic) argument arrogance and baseless debates talk talk no task. And it's going to remain like this till eternity. "

Indeed.

We were quite taken up by his bullshit until he said that.

It is a form of Cognitive bias, when presented with data or logical progression of an arguments, they go by closely held beliefs than actual facts. This guy is a xenophobe in addition to having, such a low opinion on own country and people. India should act morally when everyone else throws the rule book in a gutter, why because money/development gives them the legitimacy to do so, and we lose our power of influence over others.

 

[Arbit]

And most of the members are still not able to deduce what I said. I kept a point that these projects are not exactly for power generation but to bribe the government of Nepal. In terms of payment which would be loan, they will create assets in Nepal through these project, they will station their people there. A dam can be used not just for power but also for various purposes. It can also be used to divert water from tributaries joining kosi and many other tasks. They really need not to sell electricity.

The dam can also be used to hoist a sniper to take shots at the civil engineers visiting the dam. It can also used to store water til eternity to recharge ground water. The point is it can be used for 10 other things but there is only ONE important thing that dams are used for.
Electricity generation. And what a country like Nepal needs? Electricity generation.

I understand your views and concerns perfectly. My only contention is that the entire scenario is not as grim as you have described. Bribing governments to the detriment of long terms interests of a country happens only in either monarchies/dictatorships or India. Nepal being such a small land locked country doesn't have much leeway in bribing department unless the government is total sold-out.

Secondly this sort of influence over any country is transient. Govt. may change, financial strength of Chinese to bankroll and support such projects may diminish.
India's meekness in the past has been a major reason for Chinese meddling in our affairs. They didn't really need to factor our displeasure during such brazen interference. This might not be the case now or in near future and could force a rethink to demarcate boundaries.

Lastly if the Chinese are really gonna treat Nepal as a gun to pester India, then we can and should point a gun back and let the nepalese stare into it. They started it. Things will come around.

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/982124945558749184

 

[Bali78]

https://twitter.com/x/status/982124945558749184

The Budhi Gandaki project has capacity of 1200 MW. Currently Nepal is buying around 230 MWs from India. Once this project is commissioned, Nepal will have to sell at least some percentage of the generated power to recover the investment ($2.5 billion). The Arun III project has a capacity of 900 MWs and there are few other projects going on as well. By the time all these projects are commissioned, Nepal will be a power surplus country and with a huge debt burden. So the assumption that Nepal can consume all generated power is wrong.

 

[screambowl]

We are thugs and Chinese are Angels riding on Unicorns ? I mean wow, that's radically daft even for you!!

What ever it is they have the technology and they have developed the infrastructure and this is why doing business with them is fruitful.

unless the government is total sold-out.

It's a Chinese government there in Nepal right now.

Nepal if free to chose who will build its dams. We are free to chose who we will buy Energy from.

You don't have to boast about it. The more you boast in front of a small country the more shallow you are going and believe me it's never about energy or any thing. Chinese are using these projects to have their presence that's all. They won't have a loss and Nepalese government doesn't care about development.

Are you arguing that India should have no foreign policy till it becomes industrialized ?

Who cares about Indian foreign policy in the region lol.

Wins and failures are part of the game there are no final out comes this run perpetually in Foreign policy. No outcome is final outcome.

My point is India can't protect it's assets on foreign soil.

ndia's meekness in the past has been a major reason for Chinese meddling in our affairs. They didn't really need to factor our displeasure during such brazen interference. This might not be the case now or in near future and could force a rethink to demarcate boundaries.

I agree

Lastly if the Chinese are really gonna treat Nepal as a gun to pester India, then we can and should point a gun back and let the nepalese stare into it. They started it. Things will come around.

But make sure that the government there is Maoist as people have given them the mendate. Your rival is the government not the people.