India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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After that we got 26/11 and other massive number of attacks sir. We give them a breather like before and they will attack us with more preparedness, right now they want money, little bit stability to settle down a bit and start terrorism again.
It will be super stupid of Modi to fall for this, doesn't matter if it helps in short run but in long run this tumour of the world will be back to old ways. This is the moment of embedding deep fear in their psyche, make them shiver before thinking of attacking India. Need to keep this generation in Pakistan under constant fear so that next generation knows the cost. This is the golden opportunity to do it, fear of God and India is only going to stop them.
I seriously hope we are not falling for this tried and tested trick of Pakistan. The enemy is struggling, wounded, go for the kill, don't leave them breathing, finishing it is important, don't let another Ghori come and stab us again cuz these snakes will come again, it's not 'if' but 'when' these snakes are going to hurt us again.
Atal Bihari Chaarpayee let them off in 1999. Modi invited ISI to Pathankot in 1996. You can fool Modi once and that is more than enough.
They have tested limits of Modi pretty extensively, I doubt he is much different than others. As long as domestic audience is happy on ground change and difficult decisions can wait. Even in this attack and it's aftermath only restrain is shown by India, I think they know how far Modi is willing to go and will calibrate their actions accordingly.
I want to just say "I told you so" but ill wait a little longer. It's embedded in our Indian psyche to take a beating and go about our day like nothing ever happened.
Oh, by no means is the issue settled. It is merely that there seems to have been a capitulation of sorts (?) with GoP pulling back on militants seeking to cross over into India. Is that a victory, yes. But is that going to address the problem, no. (But then, that is another topic for another day)
You can see the number of reports of infiltration bids have gone drastically down. The ones who are within the State will be hunted down in time. Since most are dormant after any single action, it takes time to neutralize them.
Could be. It (the handle) does give specific tactical level information that is quite accurate, interspersed with 'speculative' material that can not be corroborated by open sources. I have my views on who/what that handle may be but that is irrelevant insofar the content of the tweets is concerned.
The recent spate of tweets with mentions of monsoon etc indicates what essentially was always on the cards - a continuous military pressure extending beyond a mere couple of weeks. The deployment of infantry component of I & II Corps was very limited and partial, guess that may be seen now as the troops head out for their summer time exercises and may be kept in location for longer time frame. This, of course, will not permit Pakistani Army to draw down troops it has re-positioned in forward locations along IB, thereby extending their forward deployment. India was always going to ensure smooth polls were conducted (democracy etc etc), so, there is a relative quiet?
True that sir. But there was a very good observation by a senior Pakistani member in the other forum a couple of months back (when he let slip his veneer of Indian hating in interaction with me, something he is per force required to assume by his own country(wo)men in general) that till date, it was the Indians who were willing to negotiate on J&K at the table and were willing to seek diplomatic solutions and the 'Establishment' at Pakistan undermined it both the times it came close to being achieved but this time, the body language of Indians has changed. There is more confidence that Indians bring to table based on their economic growth and development and with that comes the change in attitude, from willing to accept a negotiated settlement to only one demand - vacation of PoJ&K. Now Pakistani Establishment wants to seek peace but Indians are not playing ball anymore.
I kind of agree. I doubt we will now let Pakistan settle. They had the last chance under NS when Modi flew in unannounced, Modi was still looking for peace on equitable and respectful terms, but they blew it (more so by removing NS from power).
Its not called adrenaline rush but an itch that does not go away. Why sacrifice some poor soldiers for the generals urge to scratch his balls?
If you want to fight a war send your generals let them face the bullets instead of hiding in dubai & other places.
Give them 6 months, they'll regroup and start infiltration again. Haven't we seen it already for 3 decades?
You'll have to cut off the head to kill the snake. Scratching the skin never helped. Something GOI never understands no matter who is in power,
Modi wasn't fooled; he did what had to be done for the sake of optics and strengthening our case in front of the world. (SAARC heads invited to swearing in, ISI in Pathankot, dropping in on Nawaz Sharif's family function, restraint post-Surgical Strikes & de-escalation post-Balakot). I always draw a direct parallel between that and Krishna's offer of peace in exchange for 5 villages to Duryodhana, even though he knew Duryodhana would never agree. Sometimes you have to engage in futile gestures to seek peace so that when you finally, inevitably fight the war, nobody can dare to argue that it was unjust or that you were the one war-mongering.
The onus of appearing to be peaceful, and seeking peace til there is no option left, was doubly on Modi due to his image as a hardliner.
Now he's shown that he tried everything, and tried his best for peace; now I expect the gloves to well and truly be off.
Do you think this can be solved without going to war?
One could also ask, do you think a war would stop this? The thing about these proxies is that during the war they would not participate. They go into sleeper cells, leaving the battle to the PA. Once the War is over, they will spring back to life. All this at the cost of our armed forces personnel.
Going to war doesn’t but crippling them internally to such an extent that they cant maintain their way of social fabric anymore can. You have got to rub in on their faces amd show their public their auqaat. Until PA remains the guardian and savior from evil India nothing changes.
And India doesn’t have balls to take such steps. Just think about it. Our PM and foreign office talks about a not so important country with a crippling economy day in day out. Why? Why cant you just show them their place? Why do you give so much of importants? Just take a piece of land everytime there is an attack and not give lip service like Kashmir is integral part of india. Well these smart asses dont get is if its integral part of india then we are bigger fools to let PA occupy it. PA knows you’ll never cross the line they draw.
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Terrorism may never end, but what I am talking about is state-sponsored terrorism from Pakistan.
hello sir , do you think there will be ceasefire now , i guess india dont want to now .
More information coming in... Source
Post-Balakot, Pakistan scrambled jets from 8 bases. Was 10 minutes late: IAF report
“The strategic-surprise” of the Balakot airstrikes by the Indian Air Force in the Khyber Phaktunwa region of Pakistan on February 26 was “complete and total” despite Pakistan being on high alert, according to a report on “the lessons learnt” from the operation, which also mentions that five of the six designated targets were hit, the first official acknowledgement of the number of targets.
The report, a detailed assessment of the positives and negatives of the operation, to be used as a reference for future operations, was discussed at a high-level meeting of IAF recently.
On February 26, in response to a suicide bombing attack by a Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terrorist on a CRPF convoy in Pulwama, Jammu and Kashmir, that killed 40 troopers, and to pre-empt more such attacks, IAF struck a training camp of the Pakistan-based JeM in Balakot. There’s been a lot of discussion and debate on the attack, including on the damage inflicted, but the report marks the first time IAF discussed the operation’s effectiveness.
Also Watch | ‘They want to be Pak’s heroes’: Modi’s jibe at Balakot air strike ‘doubters’
The assessment has revealed several positives, but because “no battle plan ever survives the first contact with the enemy”, there were also deviations from the plan, and some outright negatives too.
The mission “was accomplished” because of “redundancies” built into the plan, the report, a copy of which has been reviewed by HT, says.
The Positives
The “strategic surprise” was so complete that only after IAF’s Mirage-2000s delivered the weapons package and turned back did Pakistan scramble jets from “as many as eight fighter bases”. These included the Pakistan Air Force base Mushaf in Sargoda, Rafiqui in Shorkot, Minhas in Kamra Attock, and Murid in Chakwal. “But the distance between PAF and IAF fighters was at least 10 minutes,” a senior officer in the security establishment said on condition of anonymity.
“Pakistan was expecting a response, but from the PAF response it appears it did not expect us to take the aerial route,” the officer added.
The “accuracy” of intelligence and the subsequent target selection is one of the positives the report talks about. “With this quality of intelligence, we can hit any target inside Pakistan within three hours,” a second senior security establishment official said, asking not to be named.
Among the other positives, the report lists the proficiency and skills of pilots who flew the mission, and describes them as “top class”. Keeping in the tradition of IAF, the Commanding Officers (CO) of the respective squadrons flew the mission. All pilots who flew the mission are likely to be awarded for their skill and ability.
Importantly, although nearly 6,000 men and officers of IAF were involved in the execution – aircraft flew from different airbases spread across India – there were “no leakages”.
Deception at the strategic and tactical level deceived Pakistan, the report says. While Chief of Air Staff BS Dhanoa and the top echelon of IAF went about normal duties — including attending conferences, banquets, and addressing Defence Attaché’s, so-called Combat Air Patrols along the border areas — before the strike lulled Pakistan to some extent.
Importantly, during the attack, a strike-element of Russian made Su-30s flying towards Bahawalpur, Pakistan, where the JeM is based, forced the neighbouring country to divert its energies and air defence capabilities in a separate sector.
Finally, the accuracy of the weapons have also come in for praise in the report. IAF used Spice 2000 precision guided munitions (PGM) to hit the target, among others. “Five of the six designated targets” inside the Jaish-e- Mohammed (JeM) training camp in Balakot were hit directly, the assessment report has concluded.
The Negatives
Cloud cover and weather conditions did create problems for the fighter fleet, the report says. Importantly, the entire weapons package — apart from the Spice 2000 — carried by the IAF fleet wasn’t delivered, leading to questions about to weapon to target matching. Changes in the software made to integrate new weapon systems with vintage Mirage aircraft didn’t completely work.
IAF use indigenous skills to integrate the new weapons systems. “The Balakot experience underlines integration of new weapons with platforms should be done by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) despite the cost involved,” said a senior official aware of the assessment, who did not want to be named.
The other “negative” listed in the report is in the politico-strategic domain. IAF, when planning the attack, gave priority to eliminating the maximum number of terrorists at the JeM facility. It chose Spice 2000 – a penetration smart bomb – over a fragmentation weapon. The former penetrates structures killing everyone inside whereas the latter flattens and demolishes structures.
“When questions were raised about the strike, especially internationally, IAF didn’t have much by way of pictures to show as evidence making it easy for Pakistan to deny the attack itself,” a third senior officer in the security establishment said, asking not to be identified.
Recommendations
Looking ahead and taking the lessons from the Balakot strike, IAF wants more “technological asymmetry” to be able to “penetrate the enemy airspace at will”, according to the report. It will be looking at better air defence capabilities. The induction of new platforms such as the Russian made S-400 surface to air anti-aircraft missile systems will fill part of the gap.
According to a former senior air force official, India should concentrate on absorbing more defence technology. “Technological asymmetry will always give you an edge over the enemy. However, if the OEM [original equipment manufacturer, or the supplier] is the same on either, it could create difficulties,” said former Air Vice Marshal Sunil Jayant Nanodkar.
“We achieved complete surprise and the mission was successful. It highlights the need to give forces the freedom to execute a political decision. The execution of a political decision should be at choosing of the forces,” he added.
Post-Balakot, Pakistan scrambled jets from 8 bases. Was 10 minutes late: IAF report
“The strategic-surprise” of the Balakot airstrikes by the Indian Air Force in the Khyber Phaktunwa region of Pakistan on February 26 was “complete and total” despite Pakistan being on high alert, according to a report on “the lessons learnt” from the operation, which also mentions that five of the six designated targets were hit, the first official acknowledgement of the number of targets.
The report, a detailed assessment of the positives and negatives of the operation, to be used as a reference for future operations, was discussed at a high-level meeting of IAF recently.
On February 26, in response to a suicide bombing attack by a Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) terrorist on a CRPF convoy in Pulwama, Jammu and Kashmir, that killed 40 troopers, and to pre-empt more such attacks, IAF struck a training camp of the Pakistan-based JeM in Balakot. There’s been a lot of discussion and debate on the attack, including on the damage inflicted, but the report marks the first time IAF discussed the operation’s effectiveness.
Also Watch | ‘They want to be Pak’s heroes’: Modi’s jibe at Balakot air strike ‘doubters’
The assessment has revealed several positives, but because “no battle plan ever survives the first contact with the enemy”, there were also deviations from the plan, and some outright negatives too.
The mission “was accomplished” because of “redundancies” built into the plan, the report, a copy of which has been reviewed by HT, says.
The Positives
The “strategic surprise” was so complete that only after IAF’s Mirage-2000s delivered the weapons package and turned back did Pakistan scramble jets from “as many as eight fighter bases”. These included the Pakistan Air Force base Mushaf in Sargoda, Rafiqui in Shorkot, Minhas in Kamra Attock, and Murid in Chakwal. “But the distance between PAF and IAF fighters was at least 10 minutes,” a senior officer in the security establishment said on condition of anonymity.
“Pakistan was expecting a response, but from the PAF response it appears it did not expect us to take the aerial route,” the officer added.
The “accuracy” of intelligence and the subsequent target selection is one of the positives the report talks about. “With this quality of intelligence, we can hit any target inside Pakistan within three hours,” a second senior security establishment official said, asking not to be named.
Among the other positives, the report lists the proficiency and skills of pilots who flew the mission, and describes them as “top class”. Keeping in the tradition of IAF, the Commanding Officers (CO) of the respective squadrons flew the mission. All pilots who flew the mission are likely to be awarded for their skill and ability.
Importantly, although nearly 6,000 men and officers of IAF were involved in the execution – aircraft flew from different airbases spread across India – there were “no leakages”.
Deception at the strategic and tactical level deceived Pakistan, the report says. While Chief of Air Staff BS Dhanoa and the top echelon of IAF went about normal duties — including attending conferences, banquets, and addressing Defence Attaché’s, so-called Combat Air Patrols along the border areas — before the strike lulled Pakistan to some extent.
Importantly, during the attack, a strike-element of Russian made Su-30s flying towards Bahawalpur, Pakistan, where the JeM is based, forced the neighbouring country to divert its energies and air defence capabilities in a separate sector.
Finally, the accuracy of the weapons have also come in for praise in the report. IAF used Spice 2000 precision guided munitions (PGM) to hit the target, among others. “Five of the six designated targets” inside the Jaish-e- Mohammed (JeM) training camp in Balakot were hit directly, the assessment report has concluded.
The Negatives
Cloud cover and weather conditions did create problems for the fighter fleet, the report says. Importantly, the entire weapons package — apart from the Spice 2000 — carried by the IAF fleet wasn’t delivered, leading to questions about to weapon to target matching. Changes in the software made to integrate new weapon systems with vintage Mirage aircraft didn’t completely work.
IAF use indigenous skills to integrate the new weapons systems. “The Balakot experience underlines integration of new weapons with platforms should be done by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) despite the cost involved,” said a senior official aware of the assessment, who did not want to be named.
The other “negative” listed in the report is in the politico-strategic domain. IAF, when planning the attack, gave priority to eliminating the maximum number of terrorists at the JeM facility. It chose Spice 2000 – a penetration smart bomb – over a fragmentation weapon. The former penetrates structures killing everyone inside whereas the latter flattens and demolishes structures.
“When questions were raised about the strike, especially internationally, IAF didn’t have much by way of pictures to show as evidence making it easy for Pakistan to deny the attack itself,” a third senior officer in the security establishment said, asking not to be identified.
Recommendations
Looking ahead and taking the lessons from the Balakot strike, IAF wants more “technological asymmetry” to be able to “penetrate the enemy airspace at will”, according to the report. It will be looking at better air defence capabilities. The induction of new platforms such as the Russian made S-400 surface to air anti-aircraft missile systems will fill part of the gap.
According to a former senior air force official, India should concentrate on absorbing more defence technology. “Technological asymmetry will always give you an edge over the enemy. However, if the OEM [original equipment manufacturer, or the supplier] is the same on either, it could create difficulties,” said former Air Vice Marshal Sunil Jayant Nanodkar.
“We achieved complete surprise and the mission was successful. It highlights the need to give forces the freedom to execute a political decision. The execution of a political decision should be at choosing of the forces,” he added.
Good to see the goof ups are also been taken into account and they are realizing what could be better instead of being ostrich and arrogant dismissing the reality of today's information driven world. Something we are screaming here from long.
2 quick preliminary findings. It seems only Balakote was targeted. No word on Muzaffarabad & the other place ( Chakoti?) In this communique.
The other obvious is given the Inefficacy of indigenous mating solutions between the armoury & the platform, the report seemingly recommends involvement of the OEM in such efforts but also remarks on problems to be faced if the OEM happens to be common to both nations, a hint towards France, perhaps, in that they've supplied different variants of the Mirage family to either nations.
It can also be surmised that the F-16 / F-18 will almost never make it to the inventory of the IAF.
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