@vstol Jockey,.. you said something about new R-77 being ordered... Is it R-77-1 or K-77 M? Also, since su-30 mki already fires R-77, how long would the software patching for su-30 take..?
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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These missiles are same and dont need any changes to hardware but may need minor changes to software due to longer range. So the weapons control computer might need a patch. The newer ones are R-77-1.
You sure they aren't photos of a MiG-21 elevator?
The wreckage in those photos doesn't appear to show an F-16's wingtip rails. Their position and size aren't a match.
Looks like MiG-21 wreckage to me. Specifically a MiG-21's left elevator based on how the rivets are oriented.
Not true. There are white, orange, sometimes red, and green chutes on MiG-21s too.
Neither that or a C-9 chute will look exactly like an Indian flag because of their vertical stripe orientation, versus the Indian flag's horizontal stripes, and neither matches the exact color pattern. Either would look like the Indian flag's green, white and orange when deployed.
Assuming the tank is from an F-16 and not another aircraft (it is possible to mate different tanks to different aircraft), does it have to have been a shot down F-16? Couldn't have simply been jettisoned? Pilots will jettison tanks to gain energy, such as for a quick egress back to base when presented with the prospect of additional armed contacts inbound.
The photos presented don't clearly show the overall shape of the tanks. They look larger then the typically MiG-21 under-fuselage tanks, but the MiG-21 can be outfitted with larger tanks too. Not saying that's how the IAF flies its birds, but it's a possibility as well.
Standard under-wing, under-fuselage tanks.
Large under-wing tanks.
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Yeah you are right. Thats a mig 21. Now I understood where that rhombus shaped thing on the wreck came from.You sure they aren't photos of a MiG-21 elevator?
The wreckage in those photos doesn't appear to show an F-16's wingtip rails. Their position and size aren't a match.
View attachment 7063
View attachment 7064
Looks like MiG-21 wreckage to me. Specifically a MiG-21's left elevator based on how the rivets are oriented.
Not true. There are white, orange, sometimes red, and green chutes on MiG-21s too.
View attachment 7066
Neither that or a C-9 chute will look exactly like an Indian flag because of their vertical strip orientation, versus the Indian flag's horizontal strips, and neither matches the exact color pattern. Either would look like the Indian flag's green, white and orange when deployed.
I was wrong about this point.
If you look at the original post by the guy, he clearly mentions its a US JOINT OPS base, how can we hit that ?
google agrees
Assuming the tank is from an F-16 and not another aircraft (it is possible to mate different tanks to different aircraft), does it have to have been a shot down F-16? Couldn't have simply been jettisoned? Pilots will jettison tanks to gain energy, such as for a quick egress back to base when presented with the prospect of additional armed contacts inbound.
The photos presented don't clearly show the overall shape of the tanks. They look larger then the typically MiG-21 under-fuselage tanks, but the MiG-21 can be outfitted with larger tanks too. Not saying that's how the IAF flies its birds, but it's a possibility as well.
Standard under-wing, under-fuselage tanks.
Large under-wing tanks.
Check the daily motion video i posted. It pakistan loading an f16 tank along with the the other wreckage. Now whats the coincidence of the f16 tank falling right on an mig 21 wreck?
Also check the ribs and the holes on the tank. Its of an f16
And gernail parody Twitter joked about how F16 parts were hurried ly loaded into truck unlike Mig 21 parts which were used for photo sessions.
One of the biggest evidences ignored by all is that video which showed an aircraft turning to right behind a falling aircraft. The falling aircraft was headed towards North and the the aircraft which turned towards right behind it was turning in a positioning turn to either get behind another aircraft or to return to Indian Territory as its direction of approach in that video was from east.
Now only two things can explain this if we go by the AWACS picture released by IAF.
One-The intruding F-16s were on a westerly heading and turned North when bounced by Mig-21Bisons. The intruding F-16s were in a left hand finger three formation and did a tactical turn in position to North. The lead aircraft became closest to the arriving Mig-21Bisons and got shot down. WC Abhi continued to guide his R-73 with HMSS to ensure that if any counter measure is employed, the missile stays on target. It was somewhere during this stage that he sighted the other F-16 which was further to the west of this lead F-16 and decided to go for it as well. The turn as can be seen in that video shows a turn at about 3.5G and not a 8G (bcoz Mig-21bison is restricted to 8G with missiles on pylons) turn which a pilot will execute to save himself from a missile or hurry to get back within his own territory. Plus if he wanted to get back to his own territory a high G roll of top would have been sufficient in which case he would not have appeared in the video and if he was trying to avoid a missile, a high G barrel reversal would have been executed. But that video does not show any such attempt by the pilot of the aircraft who turned behind the falling aircraft.
second- The aircraft turning behind the falling aircraft appears on the screen good after 5-7 seconds. Which means that R-73 was fired from a distance of about 15kms which matches the claim of IAF that Abhi was asked to go cold as he was approaching the LOC.
To all the so called experts here and those who have not even seen the backside of a fighter or ever flown one, I want to ask, Can you please explain that video and tell me who got shot down and who was turning behind that falling aircraft. Also please explain your rational if you disagree with what I have posted here.
Sir we are reinventing the wheel here, there were 2 different videos of 2 different planes getting shot, only one wreckage was shown other was kept hidden.
Now let any third party or fourth party come, we don't need to explain anything at all. The more we explain more chances of error and topic getting distracted and dragged. Let them first explain about the second plane video, see them making a fool of themselves while we laugh. That video is biggest proof of 2nd jet getting shot down and 2 ejection as seen and reported by people on ground are conclusive enough to know which platform was shot.
It's a hilly area, sparsely populated and under heavy control of army, a bus size fighter jet crashing in jungle is not difficult to hide. That video is more than sufficient, please don't explain anymore.
Also sir i had seen a video , in that the aircraft was falling down vertically on its nose
while when we see MiGs wreckage we can see that its nose isnt as damaged that it means MiG didn't fell vertically on its nose
F-16 has an aspect ratio of 3.5 and Mig-21bison has 2.21. F-16 was shot in the front and so it would have glided some distance. Mig-21bison can't glide and is positively stable aircraft. If you knock out its tail, it will fall nearly vertical in a flat trajectory. The Mig-21 wreackage very clearly shows this. Mig was hit in the tail and the wreackage was nearly a single piece.
Dear all,
While discussing/ Debating Do report the posts which is of low quality or breaks the rules..... We have kept this thread away from usual BS and we intend to continue... Request your cooperation
nair
While discussing/ Debating Do report the posts which is of low quality or breaks the rules..... We have kept this thread away from usual BS and we intend to continue... Request your cooperation
nair
I agree with you, but i have my reservations about him, everything that was crucial to pak in the Info war he shat on, left them hanging, though tarbela and other stuff he cleared up for most of us too, he did mention hes not a propaganda handle, maybe he prefers to hang in the middle
but i can see a LOT of sane indians look up to his data id pick him/iyer/vishnu over natsecjeff,baba,levina,ind4ever etc all baseless drama queens
Also gameindia called 3 americans intelcrab,intelliplus and elint pakistani cause they RT a pak handle, their names are out in a hindu article as americans, gameindia made the biggest joke of itself, they went after a IAF pilot and iyer for defending other handles lol
baat nahi manoge, pakistan jao !!
Great Game India, is paranoid as hell. He calls BJP the British Janissary Party and the Congress the left over of the British Rule Line.
To the Newly joined members....
Have seen the recent debates.... Look like we are starting from scratch..... This thread has 9000 odd posts and if you could go to the initial pages you would find answers for your queries..... Strongly recommend to read them which are the interpretations of our senior members and veterans..... Lot of the observations were later turned out to be true..... Once you go thru I am sure the debates will be interesting
Have seen the recent debates.... Look like we are starting from scratch..... This thread has 9000 odd posts and if you could go to the initial pages you would find answers for your queries..... Strongly recommend to read them which are the interpretations of our senior members and veterans..... Lot of the observations were later turned out to be true..... Once you go thru I am sure the debates will be interesting
sir the radar images which you are talking about aren't authentic.you can see arrows and handwritting all over it.it was weird.even if it's true,there is no video or any other frames to support the theory but i know there was another jet and it went down.
For whoever is interested, you can go through pages 48 onwards. Best of luck, tomorrow is a holiday.
Discussion focussed on the Mig 21 and F-16 tussle is available on a separate thread here :-
Air Battle Mig 21 vs F-16
Personal attacks will be deleted. Please go through the entire thread, before bringing up same old 'facts'.
Here is the video with an English translation, by a Pak journalist of a PoJK villager. Not Indian media. This was just after 27th..
There are couple of more videos of 2 jets falling out of the sky on that day. 1 is a Mig 21. 2nd could be either JF-17 or F-16. But if there are 3 parachutes, like the eyewitness also says, its a guaranteed F-16. They do not have any other plane which flies in combat role with 2 pilots. And like he says in the interview, there were 3 parachutes. Which by the way, is also what the DGISPR said first.
Discussion focussed on the Mig 21 and F-16 tussle is available on a separate thread here :-
Air Battle Mig 21 vs F-16
Personal attacks will be deleted. Please go through the entire thread, before bringing up same old 'facts'.
Here is the video with an English translation, by a Pak journalist of a PoJK villager. Not Indian media. This was just after 27th..
There are couple of more videos of 2 jets falling out of the sky on that day. 1 is a Mig 21. 2nd could be either JF-17 or F-16. But if there are 3 parachutes, like the eyewitness also says, its a guaranteed F-16. They do not have any other plane which flies in combat role with 2 pilots. And like he says in the interview, there were 3 parachutes. Which by the way, is also what the DGISPR said first.
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