India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

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_Anonymous_ said:
Sir, may I ask how do you view the incident on 27th Feb, where internal assessments of the IAF have categorically stated that the PAF intended to target the IA brigade HQ if not the IAF base at Srinagar? What was our response? And pls do not rake up the Wing Co Abhinandan episode or the fact that the PAF could not achieve their mission nor could they target the Su 30 MKI in spite of taking pot shots at it or even the IN converging in strength in the Arabian Sea outside Karachi as justification of our not responding in kind.
I think all the members here have been over this issue several times. It's time we laid it to rest.
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The aim was clear. They wanted to hurt IA and take revenge for all those deaths in Balakot. They targeted our forward locations but due to Jamming and sudden appearance of Mig-21s in the battle forced them to fire their weapons in hurry resulting in large miss distances. The H4s were carried by Mirages and they were least defendable in that strike package. So they were asked to exit asap on being bounced by Mig-21s. Please understand that the strike package took off from four different bases and converged on one location along LOC. Such a planning would have taken PAF at least 3-4 hrs and yet they failed to factor in Mig-21s. Every formation within the strike package was probably given a specific target. Like the Mirages were for precision strike, JF-17s to cover the tail of the retreating formations and F-16s as the linchpin. This explains as to why F-16s tried to bomb our weapon storage dump and also targeted our Su-30MKIs.
IMHO, The F-16s were probably using bases in Gilgit-Skardu as secondary bases and that explains the position of JF-17s to the north of the strike package. I still maintain that IAF and our security establishment was completely taken by surprise. If I had been in such a situation, I would have kept a strike package ready with land launched Brahmos on trigger happy stage. The moment I saw PAF striking our forward locations, I would have let loose Brahmos against the airbases to deny safe landing to the returning strike and also launched a counter strike with full force immediately just behind the retreating strike package.
In classic air battles we were always taught the value of a very fast and lightening counter strike in such situations.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
The aim was clear. They wanted to hurt IA and take revenge for all those deaths in Balakot. They targeted our forward locations but due to Jamming and sudden appearance of Mig-21s in the battle forced them to fire their weapons in hurry resulting in large miss distances. The H4s were carried by Mirages and they were least defendable in that strike package. So they were asked to exit asap on being bounced by Mig-21s. Please understand that the strike package took off from four different bases and converged on one location along LOC. Such a planning would have taken PAF at least 3-4 hrs and yet they failed to factor in Mig-21s. Every formation within the strike package was probably given a specific target. Like the Mirages were for precision strike, JF-17s to cover the tail of the retreating formations and F-16s as the linchpin. This explains as to why F-16s tried to bomb our weapon storage dump and also targeted our Su-30MKIs.
IMHO, The F-16s were probably using bases in Gilgit-Skardu as secondary bases and that explains the position of JF-17s to the north of the strike package. I still maintain that IAF and our security establishment was completely taken by surprise. If I had been in such a situation, I would have kept a strike package ready with land launched Brahmos on trigger happy stage. The moment I saw PAF striking our forward locations, I would have let loose Brahmos against the airbases to deny safe landing to the returning strike and also launched a counter strike with full force immediately just behind the retreating strike package.
In classic air battles we were always taught the value of a very fast and lightening counter strike in such situations.
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Yes. That's all true from a tactical PoV. But the fact remains that Pakistan responded to the 26th Feb attacks with the incident they staged on 27th Feb. What was our response to it? Nil. That's how history will be recorded. And Modi went to town with the Balakote air strikes keeping mum against the lack of retaliation for the 27th Feb incident only bluffing his way thru with hindi film dialogues a la Qatl ki Raat.

The thrust of my argument remains that he isn't interested in escalation. He will only respond in kind and leave it at that.

Having said that - I'm not entirely in disagreement with this narrative too.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Yes. That's all true from a tactical PoV. But the fact remains that Pakistan responded to the 26th Feb attacks with the incident they staged on 27th Feb. What was our response to it? Nil. That's how history will be recorded. And Modi went to town with the Balakote air strikes keeping mum against the lack of retaliation for the 27th Feb incident only bluffing his way thru with hindi film dialogues a la Qatl ki Raat.

The thrust of my argument remains that he isn't interested in escalation. He will only respond in kind and leave it at that.

Having said that - I'm not entirely in disagreement with this narrative too.
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I can tell you that Modi did not keep quiet. My own daughter was airborne on 27th Night in that area around Karachi. I know what all was planned and how it was avoided. But we took a very strong revenge for 27th on 5-6th march. Babaji is telling the truth. It was this revenge which resulted in PAF shooting down one of their own in Multan.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
@BlackOpsIndia, If we failed to strike any target on 26th and did not cause any deaths, then please explain 27th feb. AND also the 5 am tweet by Gafoora
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I didn't said we failed to strike any target, maybe we did but that's not what I was saying. I was talking about that compound, there was no sign of damage I could almost convulsively find in that compound, probably the only and biggest Jaish camp in Balakot which we formally claimed and Pakistan restricted access to.

Possible we hit anywhere else, or we missed this one, or we just wanted to display our capabilities without causing massive PR blunder of killing children and intentionally targeted vicinity and PAF too wanted to display their capabilities by shooting across the mast, who knows, everything is brushed under the carpet. In this fixed match of WWE WC Abhinandan shooting down F16 created complications. It's could be a coincidence and not pre arranged agreement that ROE designed by superiors restricted IAF pilots to shoot down intruders and Abhinandan has to defy them to get something. It could also be coincidence that even after clear Sat images and no sign of bodies or injured or no ambulance movement PA intentionally restricted access to that site. So many coincidences one after the other in a particular pattern, not a fixed match ;)

Once we claimed 300 casualties on TV we pushed ourselves to corner and have no scope left to objectively assess the situation. Only option we had was to double down on our claims. Questions are lot and no answers from government.
 
vstol Jockey said:
I can tell you that Modi did not keep quiet. My own daughter was airborne on 27th Night in that area around Karachi. I know what all was planned and how it was avoided. But we took a very strong revenge for 27th on 5-6th march. Babaji is telling the truth. It was this revenge which resulted in PAF shooting down one of their own in Multan.
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I'm not all denying your claims. My express intent is in showing Modi was engaged in bluster. Hence the analogy of the 4 wheeler drivers from Gujarat. Mere preparation and deployment doesn't mean execution. That requires will. I'm not stating that Modi lacks it. He's merely not interested in exercising such a will. On his list of priorities engaging with Pakistan in a positive or negative manner is very low down.

Moreover, I'm not privy to what's happened on the 5th or 6 th of March. I'm merely going by what's in the public domain . Perhaps you ought to elaborate on it.
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
Once we claimed 300 casualties on TV we pushed ourselves to corner and have no scope left to objectively assess the situation. Only option we had was to double down on our claims. Questions are lot and no answers from government.
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We claimed those many casualties based on the cell phones which were active in that place and they all went silent after the strike. Do you even know what our capabilities in space are and how we track our targets? Just a reminder, we told Srilanka that the suicide bombers have left the place to their respective target locations. It was that precise. Now dont waste my time. I will not respond to you anymore and please do not reply to me.
 
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randomradio said:
We may easily take a decade or more if we are to reach Americans standards of going to war with our defence budget alone.
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Are we planning to increase our defence budget to $500-600 billions in next ten years!

vstol Jockey said:
They targeted our forward locations but due to Jamming
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Can 2 Su30MKi jam 12 H4 bombs some 80-90km while performing evasive maneuvers and jamming AMRAAM too! That looks a bit of exaggeration.

vstol Jockey said:
I can tell you that Modi did not keep quiet. My own daughter was airborne on 27th Night in that area around Karachi. I know what all was planned and how it was avoided. But we took a very strong revenge for 27th on 5-6th march. Babaji is telling the truth. It was this revenge which resulted in PAF shooting down one of their own in Multan.
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Yes he didn't kept quite after air lifting thousands from Delhi and deploying them to strike he couldn't go thru beyond dialogues.

In normal language it is classic case of chickening out.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
We claimed those many casualties based on the cell phones which were active in that place and they all went silent after the strike. Do you even know what our capabilities in space are and how we track our targets? Just a reminder, we told Srilanka that the suicide bombers have left the place to their respective target locations. It was that precise. Now dont waste my time. I will not respond to you anymore and please do not reply to me.
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Sir the problem is the Croaking Frogs of PDF

Those Mofos live in a world of their own
Rather in a " Well " of their own (Since they croak like Frogs )

In their View they won the Feb 26 / 27 skirmish AND most of all Indian Army and Air force have been sitting quietly since then
 
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Those who have not met or interacted with Military people dont know how agressive and keen they always are to beat up Pakistan

Feb 27 was a huge insult to our Army and Airforce

And they took proper Revenge for that
 
vstol Jockey said:
We claimed those many casualties based on the cell phones which were active in that place and they all went silent after the strike.
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Yup NTRO can have instruments in Pakistan that can segregate 300 mobiles in a particular area but can't have a camera to show ambulance going in and out or a body. What a crap sold to common public, when nothing works pop out a name from agency and claim anything. You can count the number of mobiles connected to particular mobile tower but you can't segregate simply Jabba top mobile subscribers from others using in that area. Also every mobile switch from one tower to other as per signal strength automatically multiple times in an hour, you can check that in your own phone after downloading OpenSignal app. I am not even counting multiple companies towers.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
Yes. That's all true from a tactical PoV. But the fact remains that Pakistan responded to the 26th Feb attacks with the incident they staged on 27th Feb. What was our response to it? Nil. That's how history will be recorded. And Modi went to town with the Balakote air strikes keeping mum against the lack of retaliation for the 27th Feb incident only bluffing his way thru with hindi film dialogues a la Qatl ki Raat.

The thrust of my argument remains that he isn't interested in escalation. He will only respond in kind and leave it at that.

Having said that - I'm not entirely in disagreement with this narrative too.
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There are two things here

1 Causing pain to the Enemy

2 Making an announcement about it

I believe that Causing pain is Enough
There is no need to Announce it Right now

Because it brings in China , OIC and US and Europe in the picture who start Lecturing us

The Really Discerning people in Pakistan will
Realise what has happened and is happening once they see PA begging for
De escalation
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
Yup NTRO can have instruments in Pakistan that can segregate 300 mobiles in a particular area but can't have a camera to show ambulance going in and out or a body. What a crap sold to common public, when nothing works pop out a name from agency and claim anything. You can count the number of mobiles connected to particular mobile tower but you can't segregate simply Jabba top mobile subscribers from others using in that area. Also every mobile switch from one tower to other as per signal strength automatically multiple times in an hour, you can check that in your own phone after downloading OpenSignal app. I am not even counting multiple companies towers.


Sure 👍 you don't need to reply to me, I will avoid quoting your posts.
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How much Time it takes FOR hundreds of Pak Army men to Remove just 200 bodies

That day Feb 26 was in winter , we attacked at 3 AM IST

The Sun Rise at that place Jabba Top must have happened at 7 AM as Per IST

Our Satellites may not have been available
At that time

In fact there was no Ambulance Used At all

The dead and injured were carted in PA trucks
 
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The Negativity Displayed is AS IF we have LOST the World Cup FINAL to Pakistan
And they will Troll us for 4 years

And we will get Next chance after 4 years

People , WE HAVE JUST STARTED OUR BATTING

We have full 5 years to beat the Crap out of Pakistan

After 2014 Modi didnt get a chance to beat Pakistan till 2016

And even after that it was limited on LOC

Now the Gloves are OFF , And we have Ample time , Pakistan economy is going down hill , everything is in our favor

Yet people are complaining

Abhi to Party SHURU hui hai :LOL:

What ever lessons we have learnt , we will use them to Come back hard at the enemy

Bajwa and Imran must be Regretting Feb 14 Everyday

After Operation Parakram ie 17 years LATER
We had a face off with Pakistanis

And in these 17 years we only had our own Internal Exercises

But Obviously REAL war is different

In a Stupid T 20 cricket match , Things dont go as planned , things go haywire

And people Expect PERFECTION in War

As if we are US Military , for whom Perpetual War is a Way of life

Even US military makes so many mistakes
Every year

Expectations should not be unreasonable
 
BlackOpsIndia said:
Are we planning to increase our defence budget to $500-600 billions in next ten years!
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In PPP terms, it's possible. Let's not forget that India's GDP in PPP is only half that of the US. But that much is unnecessary for us because our navy and air force will be much smaller while the army will be a bit bigger. So we can make do with a much smaller budget and still have plenty of firepower.

To put it in perspective, much more than 50% of the US budget goes into their navy. In our case, the army gets more than 50% of the budget.

So we have no need for a $500-600B budget unless we want to challenge the USN, which is not possible until 2040 at the very minimum in either case.
 
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