I meant passive listening radars like mentioned here: Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farmAcoustic? Acoustic was last used during the first year of WW2, replaced by radars.
India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .
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Here is US research patent regarding what I meant, @randomradio:
Should we look towards these means to thwart Chinese VLO advantage, which they now have?
US4811308A - Seismo-acoustic detection, identification, and tracking of stealth aircraft - Google Patents
An aircraft detection system which detects and tracks aircraft using: arrays of seismic and acoustic sensors, a set of junction circuits, a set of subarray circuits, several slave computers, and a master computer. Each junction circuit relays detected signals from several adjacent sensors to a...
patents.google.com
Should we look towards these means to thwart Chinese VLO advantage, which they now have?
Cellphone signal density in Tibet is way too less for this to work. It only works in theory in populated areas like Europe.
We are discussing this and voila look what I found:
Also take a look at this article from Group Captain of IAF, Gopal Sharma talking about passive acoustic detection/and more methods to defeat VLO/J-20:
Link of full article: India should address the serious issue of stealth aircraft detection
As per some sources BEL and Thales are also working on Passive Radars to detect VLO fighters. @Picdelamirand-oil @marich01 Is this true?
Yeah, all experimental stuff. This type of system first came into existence in 1963 called VERA by the Czech.
Whether it actually works on stealth or not is still debated.
This type of system already exists for low flying aircraft. It's mainly to detect movement of ground forces.
The problem with both these systems is they are easy to fake using drones.
@randomradio
What's your take on Rafale vs J-20 analysis by VK Thakur: China's J-20 Stealth Fighter, Flying Under AWACS Cover, Very Dangerous; Best Avoided By India's Rafale: OPED
Found it quite nice!
What's your take on Rafale vs J-20 analysis by VK Thakur: China's J-20 Stealth Fighter, Flying Under AWACS Cover, Very Dangerous; Best Avoided By India's Rafale: OPED
Found it quite nice!
It's a pretty balanced view. The issue with comparing the two is both are very different designs and achieve objectives via different means. The J-20 is a much more established design in comparison because of the F-22, but it entirely depends on how good the Rafale matches with its advertisement. I just hope the J-20 is still many years away from using GaN though. Rafale has been disappointing only in that area.
With that said, the IAF's Rafales definitely need the F4.1/4.2 software upgrades. I hope there's a TRM upgrade planned as well for both the radar and SPECTRA.
We have max 62 units if we add the naval ones as well, how much of a difference will it make if the war goes beyond 2-4 months ? Longer the war is fought higher the attrition probability, so odds will even out sooner or later. These comparison contests are good for bragging beyond which it hardly serves any purpose.
For an all-out war with China, we need 80-120 Rafales minimum. What we have now is bare minimum for deterrence only, or at best a limited war in one sector.
As for whether we can fight a long war or not, that's subject to the army's performance, not the air force. The AF can change tactics for the sake of survival when playing the long game. And in time we will have options for attrition replacements from friendly countries until we build our own fleet.
That's small price to pay for sovereignty. Not ordering another 2 squadrons of Rafale was a strange decision. It should have been a no brainer, but alas!
small price if thats the one & only purchase that was made. When we keep importing stuff all the time these big ticket items not just burn a big hole in the budget but they also divert funds from other places like infantry who actually fight the most of the battle.
I find current gov.'s decision quite balanced regarding imports v/s desi weapons. Anyways, we need to import high-end/tech weapons until desi substitutes are ready. So, another 2 squadrons of Rafale F3R(I) should most definitely have been ordered, IMO.
Until this situation is addressed, we will have to make do.
When we are at war, everything necessary for fighting will become affordable overnight.
I suppose so, there is even a prophecy that dogs will become donkeys and donkeys will become war elephants.
@randomradio
If you remember our above discussion which we had regarding passive radars to track J-20/VLO fighters. Well here is something interesting. Give it a look:
We are preparing to thwart Chinese VLO fighters, IMO. What say?
Nothing is said there, just that such systems exist.
Passive surveillance systems are necessary, but are secondary sources of surveillance because we do not control the emitter. In fact, during wartime, most civilian emitters will be turned off or switch to emergency signals.
Anyway, it's just an ELINT system. Tender doc says nothing about it being used to defeat VLO.
