We can make this on our own. Why go with Russia? To save time? Integration with S400s?
Maybe to screw with the Americans.
Indian AESA Radar Developments
- Thread starter ni8mare
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Maybe to screw with the Americans.
Looks strikingly similar to Voronezh. Strange that we're asking Russia for radar tech after decades of collaborating with Israel.
In the early 2000s, Russia had offered us an integrated air and missile defence system with Voronezh at its core. Akash and local Indian missiles were to be integrated with Buk, S-400 class SAMs via a central C4I network to provide low to high altitude, long range air bubble all along the Western and Eastern borders. At the time, we chose to go with Isreal, purchasing Green Pine and building localized versions like Swordfish. More recently, we bought Elta 2090 family radars for long-range BMD tracking which I thought took care of our immediate needs.
Could the US be leaning on Israel to taper off mil tech transfers to India in the hope of selling THAAD+TPY-2?
In the early 2000s, Russia had offered us an integrated air and missile defence system with Voronezh at its core. Akash and local Indian missiles were to be integrated with Buk, S-400 class SAMs via a central C4I network to provide low to high altitude, long range air bubble all along the Western and Eastern borders. At the time, we chose to go with Isreal, purchasing Green Pine and building localized versions like Swordfish. More recently, we bought Elta 2090 family radars for long-range BMD tracking which I thought took care of our immediate needs.
Could the US be leaning on Israel to taper off mil tech transfers to India in the hope of selling THAAD+TPY-2?
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We have got almost all the core radar/EW tech that we wanted from Israel. The only other thing that we wanted from Israel was semi-con fab. That is now happening commercially. If USA wanted Israel to taper off mil tech transfers, I am afraid they are 5-6 years too late. The only thing they can delay/stop are those fabs. But then our commercial fabs won't directly feed into our military electronics. The tech involved are similar but not the same.
On the other hand, Russia has a long history of making long range early warning radars. They are also not in the best situation geo-politically. As such, they may be open to sharing more tech than usual to get geo-political benefits. Our relationship with the US has worsened palpably & is unlikely to get any better in the near future. Perfect opportunity to get some deals with Russia.
What new tech would Voronezh offer beyond what we already have access to? Seems to me we may be doing this to keep some of the tech out of China's hands. There were reports of Russia working on a missile defence system for China. Putting up some money could be the only way to stop cash-starved Russia from selling high-end tech to our adversaries.
The US has offered PAC-3+THAAD to us in the past. There may be a renewed push for it now, forcing Israel out of the picture. Wishful thinking but if we wanted to needle China, deploying THAAD would be the best thing to do imo. Remember the hue and cry they raised when SoKo wanted to host a US THAAD battery? I wouldn't mind a Round-2.
Honestly no idea, but since many consultations are taken with Rus, until we know status of each we can not say which factor(s) exactly influenced the decision. It is possible perhaps we have a core baseline part established, but for codes , algo , various other exotic features may be only possible if there is jv work so the company quoted in this way which later get clearance by both country Govt since strategic asset.
We need a series of ground based immobile long-range radars. This would be for tracking ballistic missiles, satellites, large body aircrafts etc. The current line of long-range radars like the swordfish, LRTR et all are more suited for targeting jobs not for large area volume scans. Israel can make do with such systems because it is a small country. We don't have that luxury. We cannot afford to station a LRTR in/around every Indian city.
Russia being a massive nation also has to tackle this problem. Their experience can prove useful to us.
Yep, agree.
PAC-3, THAAD, NASAMS etc. many such offers have come and gone. The reasons for their rejections still stand.
Let's say we deploy US missiles to needle the Chinese. What would we need to deploy to needle the Americans?
Ideally, I would like the Americans to be kept away from strategic systems. Buy tactical stuff from them. Buy rifles, buy helicopters, buy drones etc. Don't buy air defence missiles/radars or nuke deterrence stuff.
^^ especially strategic/air defence/bmd items that work on a networking and info sharing basis. You do that and that vital network system can get compromised because the main host/enabler aka USA is prone to do exactly that.
Thanks to Deep State effing with Modi, this neo Indo-Russia collaboration/defence deals are only just beginning. Our DM is currently in Russia. Fully indigenized AL-31FP to Su-57 deal in Rupee/Rouble to much more are on the anvil.
@Hydra, feeling good now
Contracts are BTS basis ie DP would build what LRDE specifies, what the lab specifies need a thorough research before and there they take a lot of consultancy and academic help as per need right ?
Space debris one would be like around 2000-4000km effective range, Voronez kind probably got more than that range ? Anyway there are a lot of new long range systems so many application is possible. That space situation application may be 2 phased ?
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That Space Situation Awareness radar to the right of the info-board looks a lot like the Russian SULA radar that India is also claimed to have bought. Range: 6000 KM.
Whether Voronezh is the exact system or not remains to be seen but Russian companies are likely consulting DRDO and probably even private companies on a number of strategic radar projects.
I, for one, always fancied India building a Pave Paws style long range radar (indigenous design, of course) and was quite impressed when the DRDO HPR design (chunky 10m X 6m) antenna array) came out. However, it appears that the IAF contract is going to L&T-Elta for a 4-face, static version of EL/M- 2084, at least based on the mockup shown in one or the other expo. Damp squib!
Whether Voronezh is the exact system or not remains to be seen but Russian companies are likely consulting DRDO and probably even private companies on a number of strategic radar projects.
I, for one, always fancied India building a Pave Paws style long range radar (indigenous design, of course) and was quite impressed when the DRDO HPR design (chunky 10m X 6m) antenna array) came out. However, it appears that the IAF contract is going to L&T-Elta for a 4-face, static version of EL/M- 2084, at least based on the mockup shown in one or the other expo. Damp squib!
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Speaking of radars, found an old infographic on QRSAM radar
An old presentation by LRDE scientist on mmw radars application in civil and military sectors
An old presentation by LRDE scientist on mmw radars application in civil and military sectors
Disappointed because of the news, after all we f@cked up badly in s400 deal.Thanks to Deep State effing with Modi, this neo Indo-Russia collaboration/defence deals are only just beginning. Our DM is currently in Russia. Fully indigenized AL-31FP to Su-57 deal in Rupee/Rouble to much more are on the anvil.
@Hydra, feeling good now
8k claimed range is against a football size target even smaller..... Look like we are getting VHF version of Voronezh.
I have a weird feeling that we might end up buying all the three and integrate to a fourth Indian radar and bmd system. The Israelis are good at sub-100km range. The Americans are pretty good at medium range ad if we get sm-6 and paac-3 someday and the Russians have long range ad covered. Indian sams can cover the weak points in between these ranges. With a sub-400km range coverage pretty good for us. Just need lots of ciws and we are pretty good.
As our own BMD started taking shape, the Americans tried selling us their wares while pressuring Israel against selling Arrow-2.
All we managed to get were 2 Green Pine radars and ToT for Swordfish/LRTR. I doubt the US will sell us Pave Paws or SBX.
At best shore based Aegis but that won't meet our requirements.
All we managed to get were 2 Green Pine radars and ToT for Swordfish/LRTR. I doubt the US will sell us Pave Paws or SBX.
At best shore based Aegis but that won't meet our requirements.