Its nice analysis of the war on IAF point of view.
We are exactly like Russians, no supporting aircraft, no credible anti radiation missiles etc.
(businessworld.in, nov.25)
IAF Chief Calls For Foreign Collaborations On Futuristic Fighter Jet Programme
In an exclusive interview to BW Businessworld’s Vishal Thapar, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari flags scepticism over AMCA and LCA Mk-2 deadlines and seeks “prudent back-up development plan”Chief of the Indian Air Force (IAF) Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari has called for foreign collaborations for development of niche technologies for the indigenous AMCA Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft programme as a hedge against timeline slippages.
“Considering the timelines and niche technologies being looked at for AMCA, it would be prudent to have a back-up development/realisation plan in place to ensure availability of alternative systems and sensors in case indigenous plans fail to mature as per planned timelines,” Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari told BW Businessworld in an exclusive interview.
The Chief of Air Staff made this statement in response to a question on whether the IAF wants scope for foreign collaborations in the AMCA programme in areas other than jet engine technology.
While expressing full support for indigenisation programmes, Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari flagged the IAF’s deep concern and scepticism over the ability of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the public sector Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to deliver on key indigenous fighter aircraft programmes on time.
AMCA - the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - programme is due for a key milestone, the completion of the critical design review (CDR) by the end of 2022. The AMCA project director AK Ghosh has been recently quoted stating that the first prototype of India’s futuristic fighter will roll out by end-2025 and the deadline for the first flight is 2026-27.
The only significant foreign collaboration sought by the ADA is for the development of a 110 kN engine to power the futuristic fighter. The French Safran, British Rolls Royce and American General Electric are competing to offer collaboration backed by their respective Governments.
But now, the IAF Chief has advised “prudence” of foreign tie-ups as a back-up for development of “alternative systems and sensors” just in case the indigenous effort slips on deadlines.
A Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) led by ADA-HAL and also comprising private sector players has been envisaged for manufacturing AMCA once the development process is complete.
Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari also emphasised that the AMCA programme is being led by the DRDO/ADA and that the IAF is rendering full support to the project, suggesting that the responsibility for delivering on time rests with the development agency and its production partners.
“AMCA programme is being led by DRDO/ ADA. IAF has a dedicated team at ADA Bangalore. Flight test crew at NFTC (National Flight Test Centre) are actively involved in the development activities. IAF is fully committed to the AMCA programme, for which an aggressive timeline has been set by DRDO,” he stated. The IAF is widely reported to have committed itself to acquiring a minimum of 140 AMCA fighters in the Mk-1 and 2 variants.
Having flagged the IAF’s scepticism on stated deadlines, Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari stressed that there should be no doubt about the alignment of the Air Force to the Aatmanirbharta (self-reliance) agenda. “However, we would prefer key technologies to be indigenous to avoid any foreign dependence during the life cycle of the platform,” he told BW Businessworld.
The IAF’s fighter fleet modernisation plan hinges critically on the ability of the DRDO-ADA and the indigenous Defence Industrial Complex to deliver the AMCA and the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk-2 in time. The promise so far has been to start the manufacturing process for both the fighters by about 2030.
Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari expressed the same anxiety with respect to the LCA Mk-2. “LCA Mk-2 was initially planned to be rolled out in 2018. CCS (Cabinet Committee on Security) approval for the design and development of the aircraft has been granted recently. Readiness for flight testing is envisaged by 2024 followed by induction from 2030-31. This is an aggressive timeline and we hope that ADA and HAL will be able to meet it,” he stated.
A big worry for the IAF is the countdown to the phase-out of the MiG, Jaguar and Mirage-2000 fleets by the mid-2030s and the need to not just replenish the retirements but also move closer to the required numbers. Against an approved squadron strength of 42 fighter squadrons, the IAF numbers stand at 31 squadrons at the moment.
The challenge for it is to ensure a fighter squadron strength of about 35 by 2035-36 in the face of the depletions on account of the retirements of the legacy aircraft amidst a decisive policy shift away from import of military equipment and reliance on indigenous design, development and manufacturing. Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari has repeatedly stressed that the requirement for 42 fighter squadrons is non-negotiable for ensuring preparedness for facing a two-front military challenge.
The three residual MiG-21 Bison squadrons will be phased out by 2025. This will set the stage for the staggered retirement – or number plating - of the six ageing Jaguar squadrons, a process that is programmed to end by 2031-32. Thereafter, the MiG-29 and Mirage-2000 fleets will start getting phased out.
Air Chief Marshal Chaudhari also listed the IAF’s expectations of the public sector HAL. “HAL should look at setting up a robust framework for support and sustenance of all its platforms. This would require an increased engagement with MSMEs and other private enterprises to ensure a complete supply chain. We also hope that the LUH (Light Utility Helicopter) and IMRH (Indian Multi Role Helicopter) programmes will progress as per the defined timelines,” he stated. /end
SC asks IAF to consider 32 women ex-SSC officers for grant of permanent commission to give pensionary benefits
The bench said the IAF would examine the suitability of these retired officers and consider granting pensionary benefits once they are found eligible for grant of permanent commission as per the HR policy.
indianexpress.com
What he's saying is the world has miscalculated with regards to technology and nothing much has changed since history.
Basically means we need more ammo.
Frankly I wonder what is he rambling about ? It's one thing for European & US defence chiefs / watchers / analysts / TTs to think the way the do on limited duration conflicts but on what grounds did their Indian counterparts hold similar views given our unique position sandwiched between 2 hostile N powers glued together only because of a common enemy more than anything of which one is avowedly & a self declared existential threat .
More importantly what's the IAF doing to ameliorate the situation ? Of all the services come 2030 they'd be the worst placed in terms of both qty & quality more the former than the latter .
Ideally the IAF should've gone ahead with exercising the option clause in the IGA for 36 additional Rafales extending it to 54 if possible. They didn't. Why ? One of the eternal mysteries of modern India .
If the MRFA was so vital why didn't the IAF draft SQRs immediately after the MMRCA 1.0 was cancelled but waited for 6 yrs having woken up towards the end of last yr & now declaring they'd be issuing it mid next yr .
Why did the modernization / upgradation program of the MKI take so long to materialize ? Why's it taking so long to integrate all those upgrades now that the decision to indigenise all those upgrades in house was taken this year. Couldn't the IAF taken a decision to upgrade a few squadrons with Russian ware & the rest with indigenous stuff ?
Apparently the entire upgradation /modernization would be thru on the prototypes only in 2026 after which it'd be duplicated on the rest of the MKIs. We still don't know if it's to be implemented across the entire fleet or a select number . If it's a selection why's it so given the total disparity in numbers between what we'd have by 2030 & what the PLAAF will field .
We also don't know if the upgradation package imvolves engine replacement . If yes with which model & the qty involved .
Given we still have the mfg facilities at HAL Ozhar Nashik lying idle & a paucity in numbers considering the impending conflict with China , why aren't we augmenting falling squadron numbers with MKIs say another 100 to reach a tally of 375 . Imagine 375 MKI in Super Sukhoi format with new engine & what a game changer it'd be .
Why haven't we considered placing additional orders for Mk-1a boosting their numbers to twice what's being requisitioned now . 166 Mk-1a + 40 Mk-1 ( of which more than half can be upgraded to Mk-1a standards ) can easily handle the western front with a squadron of MKI + Rafale each . Add a couple of squadrons of Jaguar IM & MiG-29K to interdict naval shipping along with air battles on sea & that should be enough to take care of PAF & PN if I may add.
A squadron of MKI in the A&N along with the MRCBF , P-8i & drones ( be it MQ-9A or Heron TP or a combination or some other alternative ) should be enough to take care of the PLAN air component , surface & sub surface warfare.
Yet surprisingly none of the ex IAF personnel including their chiefs have spoken about bthis glaring deficiency nor have any TTs or analysts pointed this out nor have our amateur experts on SM or various Defence blogs posted on this .
I refuse to believe old tropes of the PLAAF capable of only limited operations off the Tibetan plateau in the face of rapid modernization / construction of old & new air facilities respectively in Tibet , Xinjiang & surrounding provinces along with massive numbers being added annually to the PLAAF is seen as business as usual by these worthies without factoring in the consequences.
So what gives ? I've no clue I confess. I sure hope those who matter do . The last thing I want to see is the IAF flying away from battle to protect it's numbers like what the UkAF is doing against the RuAF & the IA paying the price thru heavy attrition .
History shouldn't record the IAF as having sat out 1962 for little fault of it & 2030 as the year they ran away from war . We still have time .
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IAF won't run away or sit away from any fight. 1962 was a political decision as you yourself said.
One on one IAF can beat any airforce in the world(especially fighting at our own turf). But our problem is a glaring two front war. In a 2 front war, what matters is numbers and attrition. And yes our current force might not be good enough for a prolonged 2-front war.
But, rather than thinking about fighter numbers and falling squadron count, just change our nuke policy and openly declare that if India is involved in any direct confrontation with either Cheen or Pak, any other nation(China or Pak) trying to get involved would meet with whole arsenal of Indian Agni-5s and make sure that war remains one on one. Neither Pak or China would get involved in the others' war if it means India nuking them.
Before people laugh at my idea, this 2-front(actually 2.5 front) is an existential threat to India and its culture. We must fight with all our power to thwart it.
Also I would like to conclude by saying that neither India nor IAF is as weak as they are often projected. In fact, we might be at our strongest point in history in-terms of military strength since Independence.
If they go in the shape they're now in , they've no choice but to avoid war & strike guerrilla style like UkAF is doing now.
Eventually, as things stand that's the only alternative ( answer to highlighted portion). We'd cross the bridge when we get to it.
Further, India'd lean on the US heavily to dissuade Paxtan from joining war with India on the side of China.
But I argue that even with Paxtan not part of the equation, what we have & what plan to procure isn't going to be enough when we go to war with the Chinese.
The Rafales are going to be the tip of the spear but we don't have them in adequate numbers. We need at least 90-100 numbers on the LAC preferably more, ideally 250-300. We have only 36 with further plans in limbo. The MKIs will form the rest of the attack force of which we don't know how many will be upgraded. Preliminary reports suggest 160 nos only.
Of the rest, the MiG -29 & Mirage 2000 will essentially perform a secondary role .
I don't see any role for the Jaguars or the Mk-1 / Mk-1a.
So even if it's 1 front war what are we talking about here. I'm not bringing in the armaments viz Missiles whether - A2A , A2G , PGMs, SoWs, ARMs, etc , IADS, or support platforms like AEW / AWACS, Re fuelers, Air Transport , other logistics, networking, space & cyber capabilities, etc .
It's essentially an apple to apple comparison of only air platforms .
Our doctrine was always an all-out war against Pak whilst holding China. We never really prepared for a long prolonged conventional war of attrition vis-a-vis the Chinese. But all that has changed post Galwan. Now we're preparing to thrash the Chinese. It will take time but we'll get there.
Now coming back to comparison of only air to air platforms. Well on paper the Chinese are definitely ahead of us. Their AESA and QWIP IRST equipped Flankers(J16) along with J-10 and stealth J-20 give them the edge over us. Also they have huge stock of PL-15 missiles while our Astra-2 is still sometimes away from induction. Their overall number is also superior to us.
But since our current strategy is defensive in nature against the Chinese, all our fighters data-linked with our IADS thanks to new B-NET are good enough to counter PLAAF in the Himalayas.
Give few years time, MKI will regain its supremacy. Already we've upgraded it a lot. With Rampage, MKI can and will saturate Chinese IADS and will follow Rafale to hit China deep if need comes.
More Rafales are definitely needed though.
Hello Every One , logging In after a few Months
Nothing has Changed, We are Still Having the Same Discussions
Welcome back.Hello Every One , logging In after a few Months
Nothing has Changed, We are Still Having the Same Discussions
Just look at what happened 3 days back. We need more Rafales to whoop the Dragon. The war is inevitable. China is now our no. 1 enemy even above Pakistan.
We won't be able to defeat them without IAF. Even in 1962, IAF's use should have thwarted their advance but because of our rulers
Until we defence fans are satisfied this discussion shall continue
A decent program which still doesn't quite address the shortfall in numbers by the participants in question if we're facing the Chinese by the decade's end relying on the same old tropes that Tibet is disadvantageous to the PLAAF .
Well PLAAF featuring 100+ J-20 & > 1000 x 4.5+ / 4.5 ++ Gen FA today is a very different beast from the same PLAAF featuring 750 + J-20 / any other 5th Gen FA & 2000 -3000 x 4.5+ / 4.5++ Gen FA by the end of the decade .
Their massive air superiority will nullify all our networked capabilities the IAF's investing in & what's more render the old maxim of a 4:1 or 5:1 advantage that an invading party has to enjoy in the Himalayas to be successful obsolete.
To be sure we've also started implementation of the Agniveer program which by 2030 would've acquired great momentum . Add to that Chandrachut & the SCs grand woke plan of gender neutrality in the services & I'd say we're in for a lot of fun by the 2030s.
You seem to be overly pessimistic, lol.
Anyways, I just watched the whole episode and loved what A.V.M. Aneja said about facing 2 front war:
"You give me a bloody nose, I'll break your skull".
'Nuff said.
Seems to me you haven't encountered insane optimism here. I'd rather be safe than sorry.
"Always Expect The Best & Prepare For The Worst. "
That was specifically meant for Paxtan. Not for China.
Encountered? Maybe, that optimism lead me here! And there may be more than what meets the eye, some method behind madness. "The optinism" might not be so insane or ahem....... "random" after all
.I concur. But for our enemies that window was 2020. Now it has closed forever. Let them come, our armed forced backed by our current leadership will put them into their place.
He said it specifically replying to a question about Pakistan's intrusion in our war with China.
Experience has taught me never to take things at face value though the same experience has taught me if things are too good to be true, they're too good to be true & if there's any doubt , there's no doubt.Encountered? Maybe, that optimism lead me here! And there may be more than what meets the eye, some method behind madness. "The optinism" might not be so "random" after all
People who've studied the issue since decades predicted 2 such maneouvres before the final reckoning. One of which has occurred. I doubt there's scope for the 2nd .
Yes, that's precisely what I said. It was meant for Paxtan.
Since you mentioned the contents of the conversation & brought in optimism whether insane or .... , how could I forget ?Encountered? Maybe, that optimism lead me here! And there may be more than what meets the eye, some method behind madness. "The optinism" might not be so insane or ahem....... "random" after all
I concur. But for our enemies that window was 2020. Now it has closed forever. Let them come, our armed forced backed by our current leadership will put them into their place.
He said it specifically replying to a question about Pakistan's intrusion in our war with China.
One of the panelists actually suggested we make up the shortage of FAs using UCAVs wherein , he specifically referred to importing the US made Predators , whether for A2A or A2G wasn't clear .
To think both these panelists were in the senior echelons of the IAF .