Indian Air Force : Updates & Discussions

[Rajput Lion]

We should increase the order of LCA MK1A from 83 to 200. With drop tanks its combat radius is not very bad. Because of its petite size, it's very hard to track and detect especially in Himalayas.


Order 64 more Rafale F4s and 50 Su-57M with delivery time set between 2024 to 2030. Years ago the great @p2prada said that India would lose the next war if we don't have Rafales and FGFA.

Plus looking at Chinese Flanker numbers(still is their numero uno fighter by number) additional 40 MKIs in SM2 guise won't be bad. With MKI MLU, IAF is intending to make MKI very very potent.

With all the above measures implemented between 2024 to 2032, before MK2 and AMCA arrive, will make sure that we retain the balance of power against the Chinese. No need to fear.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Even after new engine upgrade @randomradio ?
I mean F-35 will never be F-22 but after Engine upgrade TWR, range, Maneuverability , acceleration will increase. By how much ??

Still not good enough to counter upgraded versions of J-20 and Su-57M!

Just ponder that if F-35 with more powerful engines was good enough as an air dominance fighter, then USA is stupid to pursue uber expensive NGAD(which they clearly are not).

 

[screambowl]

We should increase the order of LCA MK1A from 83 to 200.

Order 64 more Rafale F4s and 50 Su-57M

......additional 40 MKIs in SM2

Yeah go to friday market and buy tejas. Abey cake khareed rahay ho kya? We do not have money for so much order. Government has to bring back OPS and for that the money is required. It will also not be covered under the revised budget amount for FY 2023 and will also not come in future any time soon at least not before 2026 .

So sorry to bust your dreams.

Be prepared to get kicked hard in future by China. That's the destiny. This lathbaazi will not continue much.

 

[randomradio]

Even after new engine upgrade @randomradio ?
I mean F-35 will never be F-22 but after Engine upgrade TWR, range, Maneuverability , acceleration will increase. By how much ??

It has nothing to do with the engine, the limitation is the airframe. It's designed as a strike jet with a secondary A2A capability, so it's only meant to protect itself. The F-35's priority is to avoid air combat.

Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts - Breaking Defense

For years, the news about the most expensive conventional weapons system in US history, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, has been driven by its soaring costs, technical problems and schedule screw-ups. The government and Congress and the public rarely speak about what the F-35 will do, how...

breakingdefense.com

But Hostage says, as do other senior Air Force and Marine officers, that an F-35 pilot who engages in a dogfight has probably made a mistake or has already broken through those IADS lanes and is facing a second wave of enemy aircraft. The F-35, he says, has “at least” the maneuverability and thrust and weight of the F-16. The F-35 is to the F-22 as the F-16 is to the F-15. The latter aircraft are the kings of air to air combat. The F-35 and the F-16 are the mainstay of the air fleet, designed for both air-to-air and air-to-ground attacks.

 

[randomradio]

I am expecting massive chinese cyber attack on Indian military communication and satellite system before they launch any actual strike on Indian installations. That's how they can get rid of surveillance and navigation system what India has deployed. This will delay any Indian response and will also cut off the soliders deployed at the front.

This is why more than their air strength I am more concerned about their cyber capabilities in Tibet and what PLA has in it's arsenal ti cripple Indian EW capabilities.

It is not necessary that Chinese will give a response always on ground, it can be anywhere now. This is why it has become more important to protect your EW capabilities and communication + nav infrastructure than ever before. Because once they are compromised then you have no other option but to replace them. That will be the real danger.

They are free to try.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Yeah go to friday market and buy tejas. Abey cake khareed rahay ho kya? We do not have money for so much order. Government has to bring back OPS and for that the money is required. It will also not be covered under the revised budget amount for FY 2023 and will also not come in future any time soon at least not before 2026 .

That's the price our Gov has to chalk out to maintain our sovereignty.

So sorry to bust your dreams.

No worries.

Be prepared to get kicked hard in future by China. That's the destiny. This lathbaazi will not continue much.

Just the contrary, we'll kick the Chinese. Let them come.

 

[screambowl]

They are free to try.

They are aware what Chinese are upto and hence validation of all kind of technology is going on which can be required.

The threat is very serious which most of the people are not aware of.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I'd rather wait to see what the Su 57 M turns out to be like before commenting. After all the RuAF themselves have only ordered 12 of the Mk-1 , IIRC & no word on the M series. I guess by 2025 we'd have a better understanding of it than we do today. Let's hope this is the silver bullet the IAF's looking for , though I've my doubts.

I think I was clear in my previous posts that the Mk-1a would only be for the western front . Frankly I see little usage for both the Mk-1a & the Jaguars on the northern / eastern fronts.

Absolutely silly reasoning about the MKIs being a one trick pony . The same can be said of every FA then including the Rafales. The reason behind not opting for more MKIs was always the extremely high operations & maintenance costs & the fact that we didn't want more of a burden being loaded with heavy weight FAs .

But that was back in the day in the pre Galwan / Doklam / Tawang era . Today we don't have a choice if we want to build up numbers rapidly . Ideally we ought to have been discussing more Rafales in addition to the 114 nos , yet here we are discussing the MKIs .

The MKIs with the Super Sukhoi upgrade / modernization package will be our equivalent of the proposed F-15 SE hopefully with an equivalent AESA radar & an EPAWSS EW suite. The main body of the spear with the Rafales / equivalent X FA forming the tip of it .

Would somebody please educate me on why if the J-20 is supposedly / reportedly more advanced than both the F-35 or the F-22 how can 40 odd Su 57 M & 36 Rafales go heads up against 160 J-20s ? And as if that was an exercise in rhetorics , we already have a disclaimer later in the same & succeeding paragraph .

Is this supposed to be underlining my post #756 or undermining post #744 - from where the debate about whether the IAF would be able to take on the might of the PLAAF started ? I argued against the IAF prevailing & I thought someone was arguing for it to prevail. I mean what am I missing here ?

It's Deja Vu all over again with this boy @Bali78


Those 4-5000 nos were absolute figures when 2 peers clash. Think Battle of Britain . Normally when 2 peers clash it's a battle of attrition . Very rarely does it become a one way affair at the onset itself.

The comparison of Apaches was to FA specifically . I doubt the Apaches will have a free run on our western front what to speak of the eastern or northern fronts which'd be all the more complicated given the drone saturated , IADS saturated & FA saturated environment.

Besides IADS are meant to supplement our defence not substitute it . Frankly , I don't see much differentiating both our IADS except for the Israeli component of it . Besides for all the yakking on it what are the total numbers of SRSAM , MRSAM , LRSAM , ERSAM & XLRSAM we expect to have in our inventory by 2030 . Considering a ratio of 3:1 ( considering actual firings to meet target , duds , storage failures , etc ) , we ought to be having at least 15000 nos in both the IA's & IAF's inventory . Do we even plan to come close to that figure by then ?

 

[screambowl]

That's the price our Gov has to chalk out to maintain our sovereignty

Easily said than done. just try to find out the total estimate in rupees for whatever you have mentioned about. Government will never get ready for that.

 

[screambowl]

The MKIs with the Super Sukhoi upgrade / modernization package will be our equivalent of the proposed F-15 SE hopefully with an equivalent AESA radar & an EPAWSS EW suite. The main body of the spear with the Rafales / equivalent X FA forming the tip of it .

You want India to produce MKIs or you want to import it from Russia? How are you going to get Super Sukhoi upgrade, there is a war going on and Russia is already over burdened

 

[_Anonymous_]

You want India to produce MKIs or you want to import it from Russia? How are you going to get Super Sukhoi upgrade, there is a war going on and Russia is already over burdened

You're a classic example of why the caste system was & probably (by some ) is still justified in India you know . It's when menials get higher education in a very short period of time like say a generation , it amounts to information overload , with the genes not in a position to handle it resulting in failure of the intellect & in what you're experiencing right now .

 

[screambowl]

You're a classic example of why the caste system was & probably (by some ) is still justified in India you know . It's when menials get higher education in a very short period of time like say a generation , it amounts to information overload & results in what you're experiencing right now .

You are a classic example of those who have be abandoned by the wife for a better sensible person, and then to release frustration people like you lurk on defence forums and porn sites.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I'd rather wait to see what the Su 57 M turns out to be like before commenting. After all the RuAF themselves have only ordered 12 of the Mk-1 , IIRC & no word on the M series. I guess by 2025 we'd have a better understanding of it than we do today. Let's hope this is the silver bullet the IAF's looking for , though I've my doubts.

I think I was clear in my previous posts that the Mk-1a would only be for the western front . Frankly I see little usage for both the Mk-1a & the Jaguars on the northern / eastern fronts.

Absolutely silly reasoning about the MKIs being a one trick pony . The same can be said of every FA then including the Rafales. The reason behind not opting for more MKIs was always the extremely high operations & maintenance costs & the fact that we didn't want more of a burden being loaded with heavy weight FAs .

But that was back in the day in the pre Galwan / Doklam / Tawang era . Today we don't have a choice if we want to build up numbers rapidly . Ideally we ought to have been discussing more Rafales in addition to the 114 nos , yet here we are discussing the MKIs .

The MKIs with the Super Sukhoi upgrade / modernization package will be our equivalent of the proposed F-15 SE hopefully with an equivalent AESA radar & an EPAWSS EW suite. The main body of the spear with the Rafales / equivalent X FA forming the tip of it .

Would somebody please educate me on why if the J-20 is supposedly / reportedly more advanced than both the F-35 or the F-22 how can 40 odd Su 57 M & 36 Rafales go heads up against 160 J-20s ? And as if that was an exercise in rhetorics , we already have a disclaimer later in the same & succeeding paragraph .

Is this supposed to be underlining my post #756 or undermining post #744 - from where the debate about whether the IAF would be able to take on the might of the PLAAF started ? I argued against the IAF prevailing & I thought someone was arguing for it to prevail. I mean what am I missing here ?

It's Deja Vu all over again with this boy @Bali78


Those 4-5000 nos were absolute figures when 2 peers clash. Think Battle of Britain . Normally when 2 peers clash it's a battle of attrition . Very rarely does it become a one way affair at the onset itself.

The comparison of Apaches was to FA specifically . I doubt the Apaches will have a free run on our western front what to speak of the eastern or northern fronts which'd be all the more complicated given the drone saturated , IADS saturated & FA saturated environment.

Besides IADS are meant to supplement our defence not substitute it . Frankly , I don't see much differentiating both our IADS except for the Israeli component of it . Besides for all the yakking on it what are the total numbers of SRSAM , MRSAM , LRSAM , ERSAM & XLRSAM we expect to have in our inventory by 2030 . Considering a ratio of 3:1 ( considering actual firings to meet target , duds , storage failures , etc ) , we ought to be having at least 15000 nos in both the IA's & IAF's inventory . Do we even plan to come close to that figure by then ?

Excellent post. But remember currently we're looking to defend our nation. Our numbers and force structure as of today is good enough for a defensive war.

Easily said than done. just try to find out the total estimate in rupees for whatever you have mentioned about. Government will never get ready for that.

I understand. But GOI must understand that freedom is precious. We will not allow Dragon to prevail this time around at any cost.

You want India to produce MKIs or you want to import it from Russia? How are you going to get Super Sukhoi upgrade, there is a war going on and Russia is already over burdened

IAF recently stated that MLU is going to be fully Indian sans maybe the engine.

Indian EW is now second to none. MKI with Dhruti and indigenous jammers is going to be as good as SPECTRA.

 

[screambowl]

IAF recently stated that MLU is going to be fully Indian sans maybe the engine.

Indian EW is now second to none. MKI with Dhruti and indigenous jammers is going to be as good as SPECTRA.

To make them effective, the MKIs have to climb above 35000ft, and turn off their radars to passively receive the spectrum from the target. But how it is different from HARM targeting pod, and why HARM is better than RWR?

 

[RASALGHUL]

MKI with Dhruti and indigenous jammers is going to be as good as SPECTRA

How do you come to this Conclusion?

 

[Rajput Lion]

To make them effective, the MKIs have to climb above 35000ft, and turn off their radars to passively receive the spectrum from the target. But how it is different from HARM targeting pod, and why HARM is better than RWR?

What? I am talking about Dhruti digital broadband RWR along with SPJ and HBJ! It has nothing to do with altitude. It always remains on.

HARM? That's high speed anti radiation missile of USA. Our equivalent is Rudaram 1(in fact much better than HARM). With Rudram1, MKI can target enemy radars from all altitudes to achieve both SEAD and DEAD.

Here we're talking about MKI vs Chinese fighters(J-20/J-16/J-10). Dhruti along with our own jammers and maybe DCMAWS would be a game-changer in air to air warfare.

 

[screambowl]

What? I am talking about Dhruti digital broadband RWR along with SPJ and HBJ! It has nothing to do with altitude. It always remains on.

How are you going to detect a chinese spectrum if you are below the mountains? And near LAC they are mostly peaks which are eight thousanders? You have to be above 30000 ft

HARM? That's high speed anti radiation missile of USA. Our equivalent is Rudaram 1(in fact much better than HARM). With Rudram1, MKI can target enemy radars from all altitudes to achieve both SEAD and DEAD.

HARM Targeting system or HTS in short. It does the same thing as RWR, with a higher range and also gives particular classification to the the spectrum source based on the type of spectrum it revives, and relays it on MFD. How is this different than RWR, would rather directly go for Rudram.

I thought RWRs are more important when in case avoidance has failed and when enemy has fired a SAM towards the aircraft, so RWR display tells more specifically the mode at which missile radar is operating and displaydifferent alarms and lights on RWR display.

 

[Rajput Lion]

How do you come to this Conclusion?

Because with super advance digital broadband RWR, MKI shall detect/track/classify and maybe even passively target(like F-22s' AN/ALR-94) all sorts of hostile emitters(in any frequency).

And our jammers are going to be GaN based. Just remember that we've experience of Israeli and Russian DRFM based jammers for years. Both are extremely good and highly effective. Our jammers are going to be whole generation ahead.

Our EW is now really good and bleeding edge.

 

[_Anonymous_]

You are a classic example of those who have be abandoned by the wife for a better sensible person, and then to release frustration people like you lurk on defence forums and porn sites.

Err no , that's a bhutia lepcha custom . I'm neither. Pls don't project your failings onto me . As everyone here knows you were absconding for a full yr which you happened to have spent at Agra.

 

[RASALGHUL]

Because with super advance digital broadband RWR, MKI shall detect/track/classify and maybe even passively target(like F-22s' AN/ALR-94) all sorts of hostile emitters(in any frequency).

Cool. If it's true.

And our jammers are going to be GaN based. Just remember that we've experience of Israeli and Russian DRFM based jammers for years. Both are extremely good and highly effective. Our jammers are going to be whole generation ahead.

Where are these jammers are going to be placed? At wing tips? That will greatly reduce maneuverability.

Our equivalent is Rudaram 1(in fact much better than HARM)

How so?