Indian Air Force : Updates & Discussions

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Cool. If it's true.
To intercept every type of LPI AESA radar signal is the sole purpose of existence of Dhruti. If MKI knows what EM waves is tracking it even in very low power LPI mode, it will always defeat it.
Where are these jammers are going to be placed? At wing tips? That will greatly reduce maneuverability.
SPJ(low band jammers) mounted under fuselage and HBJ mounted on wing tips. And it will not affect maneuverability cause unlike SAP-518 our jammers are going to be much smaller and lighter.
Better range, seekers and speed.
 
Before I used to think, we should order and mass produce xxx Lca mk 1,2&3 etc..

At present all i seek is don't intentionally delay orders like price negotiations for 2 years on ordering Mk1 A..
Mk2 yet to sanctions..
LUH / LCH too..
K9 orders weren't followed..

A lot more..
 
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We don't need more Mk1As beyond the 4 squadrons ordered. 1 in Kashmir, 2 in Punjab and 1 in Haryana. That's 4 squadrons for a 600Km front. Rajasthan will get Mk1. Jaguars are usable in both the North and NE for CAS.

All 4th gen jets of the MKI's design are one-trick ponies. They use their big radars, high performance and large payloads with long range missiles for air policing. To defeat the MKI's tactic, all you need is an aircraft with a better design, that's all. Just lower the RCS a bit, make it faster, stick a longer range missile on it, and Bob's your uncle, said the Typhoon. The Berkut, Mig MFI and Typhoon were designed around this simple philosophy. Just stick a more advanced radar on the MKI with a missile that outranges the Meteor and it can defeat the Typhoon. The Su-35 is the answer to the Typhoon. The F-22 and Rafale can use other tactics because of their ability to get closer undetected, along with the ability to use other synergistic capabilities their more advanced avionics offer.

36 Rafales + 36-40 Rafales/Su-57s are more than enough to defeat 160-200 J-20s as long as the J-20 does not spring a surprise with some magic tech no one's ever heard of. Apart from having a much smaller airspace to defend, we also have terrain advantage. Otoh, the Chinese have the terrain advantage when facing Taiwan. The Americans lack bases and the distance from land bases to Taiwan is the same as the one between Xinjiang's bases and Ladakh.

Due to shorter distances, we can have faster turnaround times and more jets in the air at any one time. Otoh, the Chinese can maintain shorter turnaround times and get more jets in the air versus the Americans. So, we are dealing with two opposite situations.

For example, the distance between Hasimara and the Chinese border is 100-150Km away. Doklam is just 70Km away. So a Rafale can take off and get to the battlefield in a matter of minutes. Otoh, a J-20 has to take off with a large payload, refuel in the air at a safe zone and then fly to the front, which could take as much as an hour. So it's about how quickly you can put jets in the air, and the Rafale is at least four times more efficient at the lower end. Meaning, you need 4 J-20s to have the same presence in the air as 1 Rafale. While the Rafale's advantage is higher sortie rate and turnaround time, the Su-57's advantage is practically unlimited endurance due to its vast fuel reserves and extremely fuel efficient engines. So 36 Rafales + 36-40 Rafales/Su-57s actually gives us the numerical advantage against 200 J-20s. 36 Rafales alone should still give us somewhat of a parity.

WW2 era warfare is irrelevant. Today 4 modern jets can do as much damage as a 1000-bomber WW2 fleet due to precision munitions. How? Get those 4 SHs on lease as planned, request for a 400-unit supply of JASSM-ERs from the US inventory. Then, the first three days of war, fly 5 sorties a day carrying 4 missiles per sortie. That gives you 4x4x5 = 80 missiles per day. Across 3 days, that's 240 missiles delivered to the enemy against 120 targets. Hell, make it 5 days, you get 400 missiles. All with just 4 jets, no losses.

Furthermore, with the arrival of radars, long range missiles and networking, there is no longer a need to have tons and tons of propeller-driven, cannon-firing jets. You only need a small number of jets at any one time for air defence. For example, two groups of 4 F-22s each flying 25Km apart can cover the entirety of Taiwan. Additional missiles can come in via additional AIM-120s on Taiwanese F-16s and the Patriot batteries. 2-4 scrambled F-15EXs carrying 20 missiles each will further add to the kitty. Loyal wingmen will also add to the numbers. So just 8 F-22s will be able to use all those missiles.

Apaches will be extremely effective in the mountains. They can replace FAs in quite a few roles, SEAD/DEAD and CAS. When I say Apaches, it includes the LCH too. I hope to see at least 100+ attack helicopters joining the forces between 2025-30.

15000 SAMs are at the lower end. Our AAM inventory alone is 12000.

The deal also includes purchase of about 6,000 missiles from Russia.

Senior Air staff officers have, of late, been talking confidently of the combo of the 6,000 air defence missiles ordered as part of the S-400 system that India is buying from Russia
 
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Before I used to think, we should order and mass produce xxx Lca mk 1,2&3 etc..

At present all i seek is don't intentionally delay orders like price negotiations for 2 years on ordering Mk1 A..
Mk2 yet to sanctions..
LUH / LCH too..
K9 orders weren't followed..

A lot more..

We should thank the war for a lot of contract delays.

But we have also spent the last 3-4 years plugging holes in our capabilties. So a lot of that has gone below media radar. Like endless amounts of ammo.
 
We are not defensive.
In the case of a 2-front war, we would be defensive on 1 front while trying to finish the other ASAP. Then....yes we'll attack.
We don't need more Mk1As beyond the 4 squadrons ordered. 1 in Kashmir, 2 in Punjab and 1 in Haryana. That's 4 squadrons for a 600Km front. Rajasthan will get Mk1. Jaguars are usable in both the North and NE for CAS.
More MK1As to take on PAF shall also take the load off the Rafales and Sukhois to concentrate on our Northen/Eastern neighbour.
All 4th gen jets of the MKI's design are one-trick ponies. They use their big radars, high performance and large payloads with long range missiles for air policing. To defeat the MKI's tactic, all you need is an aircraft with a better design, that's all. Just lower the RCS a bit, make it faster, stick a longer range missile on it, and Bob's your uncle, said the Typhoon. The Berkut, Mig MFI and Typhoon were designed around this simple philosophy. Just stick a more advanced radar on the MKI with a missile that outranges the Meteor and it can defeat the Typhoon. The Su-35 is the answer to the Typhoon. The F-22 and Rafale can use other tactics because of their ability to get closer undetected, along with the ability to use other synergistic capabilities their more advanced avionics offer.
MKI is not a vanilla 4th gen fighter. It is a 4.5 gen plane and with upgrades it shall be categorized as 4++ gen like Su-35S.

And MKI is not a one trick pony. It may not play the "hide and seek" game as better as Rafale or F-22 but it's other tricks in its pocket to do the job.

MKI's kinematic and supersonic endurance on internal fuel alone is above every fighter sans Su-35 and Su-57. That matters in any conflict with a peer rival.

With MKI MLU, it shall get plenty of sensors to target passively and get close to the target. Look at F-15EX's EPAWSS. It allows Eagle 2 to come close to and evade/destroy any target undetected. MKI's EW is going to be absolutely bleeding edge, better than EPAWSS.

MKI would better even the Rafale after its MLU. There are other areas where it is still better.
36 Rafales + 36-40 Rafales/Su-57s are more than enough to defeat 160-200 J-20s as long as the J-20 does not spring a surprise with some magic tech no one's ever heard of. Apart from having a much smaller airspace to defend, we also have terrain advantage. Otoh, the Chinese have the terrain advantage when facing Taiwan. The Americans lack bases and the distance from land bases to Taiwan is the same as the one between Xinjiang's bases and Ladakh.

Due to shorter distances, we can have faster turnaround times and more jets in the air at any one time. Otoh, the Chinese can maintain shorter turnaround times and get more jets in the air versus the Americans. So, we are dealing with two opposite situations.

For example, the distance between Hasimara and the Chinese border is 100-150Km away. Doklam is just 70Km away. So a Rafale can take off and get to the battlefield in a matter of minutes. Otoh, a J-20 has to take off with a large payload, refuel in the air at a safe zone and then fly to the front, which could take as much as an hour. So it's about how quickly you can put jets in the air, and the Rafale is at least four times more efficient at the lower end. Meaning, you need 4 J-20s to have the same presence in the air as 1 Rafale. While the Rafale's advantage is higher sortie rate and turnaround time, the Su-57's advantage is practically unlimited endurance due to its vast fuel reserves and extremely fuel efficient engines. So 36 Rafales + 36-40 Rafales/Su-57s actually gives us the numerical advantage against 200 J-20s. 36 Rafales alone should still give us somewhat of a parity.

WW2 era warfare is irrelevant. Today 4 modern jets can do as much damage as a 1000-bomber WW2 fleet due to precision munitions. How? Get those 4 SHs on lease as planned, request for a 400-unit supply of JASSM-ERs from the US inventory. Then, the first three days of war, fly 5 sorties a day carrying 4 missiles per sortie. That gives you 4x4x5 = 80 missiles per day. Across 3 days, that's 240 missiles delivered to the enemy against 120 targets. Hell, make it 5 days, you get 400 missiles. All with just 4 jets, no losses.

Furthermore, with the arrival of radars, long range missiles and networking, there is no longer a need to have tons and tons of propeller-driven, cannon-firing jets. You only need a small number of jets at any one time for air defence. For example, two groups of 4 F-22s each flying 25Km apart can cover the entirety of Taiwan. Additional missiles can come in via additional AIM-120s on Taiwanese F-16s and the Patriot batteries. 2-4 scrambled F-15EXs carrying 20 missiles each will further add to the kitty. Loyal wingmen will also add to the numbers. So just 8 F-22s will be able to use all those missiles.

Apaches will be extremely effective in the mountains. They can replace FAs in quite a few roles, SEAD/DEAD and CAS. When I say Apaches, it includes the LCH too. I hope to see at least 100+ attack helicopters joining the forces between 2025-30.

15000 SAMs are at the lower end. Our AAM inventory alone is 12000.

The deal also includes purchase of about 6,000 missiles from Russia.

Senior Air staff officers have, of late, been talking confidently of the combo of the 6,000 air defence missiles ordered as part of the S-400 system that India is buying from Russia
Rest points, I agree.
 
Even after new engine upgrade @randomradio ?
I mean F-35 will never be F-22 but after Engine upgrade TWR, range, Maneuverability , acceleration will increase. By how much ??
radio says a lot of bull sht claims about the F-35 to help him cope with the fact that Indian air force has a crap load of short comings when it comes to advanced fighters. He makes these claims because he believes there's lot of morons that will believe him and not think for themselves.

Just think of all the nations that have bought, fly or recently selected the F-35 what do they have in common? They are all first world nations with very strong military with many of them belonging to a first world military alliance. Radio feels left out that India is buying 4th gen fighters while its big enemy to the north already flies hundreds of stealth fighters and is working on another stealth fighter and stealth bomber. The nations that fly or will fly the F-35 would have never bought the F-35 if it wasn't an air supremacy fighter. The Swiss evaluation makes that clear which is why they selected the F-35 over Rafale and F-18E.

Radio likes to use a 2014 article when the USAF was looking for funding to upgrade the F-22 and likes to stick to that 2014 article but totally ignores F-35 pilots and defense officials in the F-35 program post 2014 article about the F-35's superior air to air capability compared to all other fighters including the F-22. F-22 pilots talk about what is like to go up against F-35 aggressor at Red Flag F-35's that are in block 3i and are restricted to only radar and IRST. If India tomorrow announced it has made a deal to purchase 100+ F-35's radios tune (pun intended) of the F-35 would completely change for the positive. He's a hater... he hates that a big economic and military power like India has not been offered the F-35 by the US even when India was asking about the F-35. What better way to cope than to criticize what you can't get... for now.
 
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If India tomorrow announced it has made a deal to purchase 100+ F-35's radios tune (pun intended) of the F-35 would completely change for the positive. He's a hater... he hates that a big economic and military power like India has not been offered the F-35 by the US even when India was asking about the F-35. What better way to cope than to criticize what you can't get... for now.
Ah , that cut to the bone too , I see . But you seem quite domesticated these days sweetie as opposed to same time last year where even the slightest criticism of any US platform especially the Lightnings would have your panties in a twist & the self appointed spokesperson of LM in you would come to the fore to defend it with your life if needed.

Let me explain the facts of life to you here , sweetie. Right now the Lightnings are WiP or work in progress. Multiple minions of yours who've procured it are busy training their pilots exclusively on the simulators since most Lightnings are grounded under one pretext or another with government auditing agencies & parliamentary committees on Defence being extremely critical of the shortcomings of the Lightnings. You should keep calm till the FOC comes thru & the Lightnings truly live up to all the hype it's created.

As far as India's concerned we , as a matter of policy don't go in for half baked stuff after burning our fingers on a few such purchases in the past . Moreover the opposition here would make the government of India's life hell if we go in for the Lightnings & they're adorning the hangars more than flying.

Let's wait for the GoI's decision on the MRCBF tender. If the GoI opts for the Rafales on expected lines it's business as usual .If on the other hand they opt for the F-18 then it signifies a radical departure from the thinking & operational philosophy of the GoI / MoD from what it used to be in the past .

Besides with the kind of platforms & arms the US has been willing to sell us across various administrations why would you think it impossible for the US to broach the topic of sales of the Lightnings to India ?
 
Before I used to think, we should order and mass produce xxx Lca mk 1,2&3 etc..

At present all i seek is don't intentionally delay orders like price negotiations for 2 years on ordering Mk1 A..
Mk2 yet to sanctions..
LUH / LCH too..
K9 orders weren't followed..

A lot more..
Maybe our current government is playing a long game to develop our desi MIC. We need to have patience. Having said that FGFA shouldn't have been cancelled and at least 36 more Rafales should have been ordered.

Tejas MK2 is going to be our J-10. Don't worry, despite all the delays it's going to be inducted in numbers and IAF is going to love it.
 
radio says a lot of bull sht claims about the F-35 to help him cope with the fact that Indian air force has a crap load of short comings when it comes to advanced fighters. He makes these claims because he believes there's lot of morons that will believe him and not think for themselves.
Lets not judge others discretion please!
Just think of all the nations that have bought, fly or recently selected the F-35 what do they have in common? They are all first world nations with very strong military with many of them belonging to a first world military alliance. Radio feels left out that India is buying 4th gen fighters while its big enemy to the north already flies hundreds of stealth fighters and is working on another stealth fighter and stealth bomber. The nations that fly or will fly the F-35 would have never bought the F-35 if it wasn't an air supremacy fighter. The Swiss evaluation makes that clear which is why they selected the F-35 over Rafale and F-18E.
India has stronger military than all other nations except USA and maybe China.
Radio likes to use a 2014 article when the USAF was looking for funding to upgrade the F-22 and likes to stick to that 2014 article but totally ignores F-35 pilots and defense officials in the F-35 program post 2014 article about the F-35's superior air to air capability compared to all other fighters including the F-22. F-22 pilots talk about what is like to go up against F-35 aggressor at Red Flag F-35's that are in block 3i and are restricted to only radar and IRST. If India tomorrow announced it has made a deal to purchase 100+ F-35's radios tune (pun intended) of the F-35 would completely change for the positive. He's a hater... he hates that a big economic and military power like India has not been offered the F-35 by the US even when India was asking about the F-35. What better way to cope than to criticize what you can't get... for now.
IAF doesn't want F-35, they love Rafale. Mirage-2000 was their previous favourite. But now Rafale it's.

And when has India asked for F-35s? Stop lying.
 
And when has India asked for F-35s? Stop lying.

Our man lives in his own made-up world.

“We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.

The Americans are the ones hoping to sell the F-35 to India. The IAF is not interested in a ground attack aircraft, even if the F-35 is better than the Rafale in A2G. Rafales combined with semi-autonomous stealth drones will do a better job than the F-35 in A2G anyway.

Why is the IAF not interested in the F-35? Simple. It can't climb, it can't accelerate, it can't supercruise, unlike the Rafale. So the deficiencies of the Rafale compared to the F-35 can be plugged via drones, but the opposite is not possible.
 
Our man lives in his own made-up world.
Yes, and he seems to have a problem with your analysis thus resorting to personal attacks rather that countering your points.
“We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.
Known fact! IAF doesn't want the F-35. But his superior American pride can't accept this simple truth.
The Americans are the ones hoping to sell the F-35 to India. The IAF is not interested in a ground attack aircraft, even if the F-35 is better than the Rafale in A2G. Rafales combined with semi-autonomous stealth drones will do a better job than the F-35 in A2G anyway.

Why is the IAF not interested in the F-35? Simple. It can't climb, it can't accelerate, it can't supercruise, unlike the Rafale. So the deficiencies of the Rafale compared to the F-35 can be plugged via drones, but the opposite is not possible.
Absolutely! Except stealth and perhaps slightly better sensor fusion, Rafale is anyday better than F-35. And above all what you wrote, IAF is free to use Rafale as they want. But they need to seek permission of US to even fire a single missile from F-35.

To maintain our autonomy, any US fighter is a big no no for us.
 
And above all what you wrote, IAF is free to use Rafale as they want. But they need to seek permission of US to even fire a single missile from F-35.

To maintain our autonomy, any US fighter is a big no no for us.

MRCBF should tell us what sort of strings the Americans want to impose on us.
 
Just lower the RCS a bit, make it faster, stick a longer range missile on it,

This is the most complicated thing in aircraft engineering. Just to give an increase of merely 50N , the engineers have to really crack their brains to optimize the engine and we are talking about increasing the thrust and streamlining the design.

No so easy bro, the engine's efficiency through turbine coupling, fluid coupling and aerodynamic streamlining takes years after research.
 
This is the most complicated thing in aircraft engineering. Just to give an increase of merely 50N , the engineers have to really crack their brains to optimize the engine and we are talking about increasing the thrust and streamlining the design.

No so easy bro, the engine's efficiency through turbine coupling, fluid coupling and aerodynamic streamlining takes years after research.

Sure, it's not easy. Which is why there are only a few aircraft designers left.
 
And what plane we take to every International exercise....the so called "outdated" MKI. And yet the world is impressed.

Bravo IAF👏
World isn't impressed by machines primarily speaking. It's the increasing level of training, structural control, scope of continuous improvement and the ability to excel despite not having access to state of art weaponry which it could had have if favorable civilian authority.
 
World isn't impressed by machines primarily speaking. It's the increasing level of training, structural control, scope of continuous improvement and the ability to excel despite not having access to state of art weaponry which it could had have if favorable civilian authority.
It's always the combo of man and machine which does the trick. While I consider IAF as the best air force of the world, history has taught us that you can't bring a knife in a gun-fight and expect to win.

Credit to the combo of IAF and their steed which has impressed the world. Rafales, Eurofighters, Mirage-2000, F-15, F-16, F-18E all bested by the "outdated" MKI flown by IAF pilots over the years.
 
And what plane we take to every International exercise....the so called "outdated" MKI. And yet the world is impressed.

Bravo IAF👏
Western MIC have a general apathy for russi stuff and its more visible now.
Russi for their part, have protected their Su30sm lot, which is probably the only jet they have bought themselves in numbers, and upgrading those to SM2 standard, that shows the trust they place on these jets. Like su57, these also have made very rare & handful appearance in combat duty so far, and Rus have been doing air superiority missions daily for past few months.
 
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