Indian Economy : News,Discussions & Updates

TATA steel is getting some components from China for their Kalinganagar blast furnace expansion. This seems to have caused some heart burns in China:
It's funny, ngl. Masses everywhere are the same. They'd blindly oppose everything when it concerns an 'enemy country', including making hyperbolic comparisons (like equating parts for a blast furnace with giving away J20s).

Tatas commissioned parts from China to save on cost. There are probably other suppliers in who would not hesitate to provide the same albeit for a higher price. So, it's not like Tatas would be hand tied even if the Chinese companies refused.
 
Does anyone know where to get standard budget documents for Uttar Pradesh?

It seems they don't publish an economic survey or frbm statement.

IAS officers don't only work for salary and perks. They work for power and hustling.
As mentioned earlier, these fabled tales of power and hustling are very dependent on cadre, departments, and posts and are often overrated. Also, when you solely rely on the allure of "power" to attract talent, why complain when you end up attracting talent that tries to pathetically exercise its "power" over the power by, for example, registering cases against those that leave a laughing emoji under their Instagram posts?

At the very least, for most 18-25-year-old students (the core demographic that appears for any exams), this reliance on power and hustling is fast losing its shine compared to multiple times the pay in comparably difficult-to-get corporate jobs.

The point is, that you hire your top bureaucrats extremely selectively based on outdated exam patterns and questions, dilute the quality of the pool, underpay them severely, villainize them for anything and everything that goes wrong, and then expect them to run the country efficiently.
 
Does anyone know where to get standard budget documents for Uttar Pradesh?

It seems they don't publish an economic survey or frbm statement.


As mentioned earlier, these fabled tales of power and hustling are very dependent on cadre, departments, and posts and are often overrated. Also, when you solely rely on the allure of "power" to attract talent, why complain when you end up attracting talent that tries to pathetically exercise its "power" over the power by, for example, registering cases against those that leave a laughing emoji under their Instagram posts?

At the very least, for most 18-25-year-old students (the core demographic that appears for any exams), this reliance on power and hustling is fast losing its shine compared to multiple times the pay in comparably difficult-to-get corporate jobs.

The point is, that you hire your top bureaucrats extremely selectively based on outdated exam patterns and questions, dilute the quality of the pool, underpay them severely, villainize them for anything and everything that goes wrong, and then expect them to run the country efficiently.

I agree with the need to reform the bureaucracy. A govt needs 2/3rd majority in both houses and 50% of the states to push real reforms through. Modi was hoping to get one in LS at the very minimum in 2014, but failed. Let's see if he manages it in the next election. He already has the states.
 
It's funny, ngl. Masses everywhere are the same. They'd blindly oppose everything when it concerns an 'enemy country', including making hyperbolic comparisons (like equating parts for a blast furnace with giving away J20s).

Tatas commissioned parts from China to save on cost. There are probably other suppliers in who would not hesitate to provide the same albeit for a higher price. So, it's not like Tatas would be hand tied even if the Chinese companies refused.

Companies will always chase cost optimization, and geopolitical noise doesn't change basic business economics. If Chinese suppliers become problematic, alternatives exist. Not everything is a national security crisis.
 
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Something interesting for those interested ...

Screenshot 2025-04-03 212453.png

This is from Bihar's 2025-26 budget, as compiled by PRS Legislative. For verification purposes, these figures align with the "Budget Ka Saar" in the Bihar government's budget link.

Hopefully, the resident experts will look at this. If people see the percentage revisions and aren't horrified, I'm not sure if they ever will be horrified by economic numbers. At this point, why even compile budget estimates and revised estimates?

And upon that, by some miracle, Bihar's economy is supposed to grow by 22% y-o-y in 2025-26. Nice.

The sources are linked below:


 
Something interesting for those interested ...

View attachment 42089

This is from Bihar's 2025-26 budget, as compiled by PRS Legislative. For verification purposes, these figures align with the "Budget Ka Saar" in the Bihar government's budget link.

Hopefully, the resident experts will look at this. If people see the percentage revisions and aren't horrified, I'm not sure if they ever will be horrified by economic numbers. At this point, why even compile budget estimates and revised estimates?

And upon that, by some miracle, Bihar's economy is supposed to grow by 22% y-o-y in 2025-26. Nice.

The sources are linked below:



The cost of Nitish Kumar's support in LS/RS.


Alternative expenditure too.

The cost of Karnataka voting BJP out. More money for AP and Bihar. Double engine growth.
 
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The cost of Nitish Kumar's support in LS/RS.


Alternative expenditure too.

The cost of Karnataka voting BJP out. More money for AP and Bihar. Double engine growth.
Sad things work this way in the country. But, can't do anything about it afterall it's all just politics. Although AP has been on a roll, several projects, industries are being set up there due to BJP support and the new capital also looks promising though it's in the very initial stages.
 
At this point, the justifications were not unexpected.
Alternative expenditure too.
Sure, it's "alternative expenditure" that somehow fails to materialize in anything.

Their deficit figures are meaningless. How on earth does a government project a revenue surplus of Rs 1,000 crore and end up with a revenue deficit of around Rs 37,000 crore? Or turn a fiscal deficit BE of Rs 29,000 crore to a RE of Rs 82,000 crore?

For the rare bunch of serious people here, understand this black magic: the Bihar government overspent its budget by a staggering Rs 70,000 crore and ended up with an economy roughly Rs 80,000 crore smaller than its estimates.

Like, how do you even achieve that? Bihar spiked its G by almost 28% and still grew by only 4.9% in nominal terms.

And it's not like this is Bihar's first time. Their 2024-25 budget snapshot is attached below.

Screenshot 2025-04-04 202315.png

They outspent their budget by 22.3%, gave a revenue surplus BE of Rs 4,500 crore, achieved a revenue deficit of Rs 35,500 crore, gave a fiscal deficit BE of Rs 25,500 crore, and achieved a FD RE of Rs 76,500 crore. And the list goes on,

The cost of Karnataka voting BJP out. More money for AP and Bihar. Double engine growth.
Yeah, the amazing double engine. Where you outspend your budget by 28% and end up with a GSDP 8% smaller than your estimates.

Bihar's had a double engine for how many years now? And all these years of outspending their budget by COVID-era stimulus levels, face-f**king their balance sheets, and co-habiting with the supreme leader's party in the state has gotten them where exactly?

The "cost" of Karnataka for voting the BJP out is this - they're still one of India's richest large states (second only to Telangana), they're still outgrowing Bihar in both real and nominal terms, and despite getting lesser from the central government for the cardinal sin of voting against the supreme leader, they've always managed to stick to their budget predictions, within the margin of error.

Also, as for Andhra Pradesh, it's got nothing to do with double engine and everything to do with CBN being an effective administrator, something he demonstrated back when he was the chief minister of united Andhra Pradesh.

And to hard carry this point, Madhya Pradesh has had a double engine for how many years now? And a BJP government for around 25 years at this point (broken only by Kamal Nath's 1-year chief ministership). And what economic miracles have they worked out in the 11 years of double engine? They're still incredibly indebted and still one of the poorest states in India. For states that have never had a double-engine government, Tamil Nadu and Telangana have done way better within the same time frame.

Heck, until 2024, Odisha was under Naveen Patnaik, a neutral regional leader. And when Patnaik left office, Odisha had transformed from being India's poorest state to being close to the national average in income. It is the richest state in East and Central India (not including AP or MH), has the best fiscal indicators of any fast-growing big state in India while still maintaining a very generous welfare regime - all the while outperforming its budget estimates (again, within the margin of error).

This just goes to show what matters when you pull out the receipts instead of relying on stories - its governance and administrative competence.
 
At this point, the justifications were not unexpected.

Sure, it's "alternative expenditure" that somehow fails to materialize in anything.

Their deficit figures are meaningless. How on earth does a government project a revenue surplus of Rs 1,000 crore and end up with a revenue deficit of around Rs 37,000 crore? Or turn a fiscal deficit BE of Rs 29,000 crore to a RE of Rs 82,000 crore?

For the rare bunch of serious people here, understand this black magic: the Bihar government overspent its budget by a staggering Rs 70,000 crore and ended up with an economy roughly Rs 80,000 crore smaller than its estimates.

Like, how do you even achieve that? Bihar spiked its G by almost 28% and still grew by only 4.9% in nominal terms.

And it's not like this is Bihar's first time. Their 2024-25 budget snapshot is attached below.

View attachment 42096

They outspent their budget by 22.3%, gave a revenue surplus BE of Rs 4,500 crore, achieved a revenue deficit of Rs 35,500 crore, gave a fiscal deficit BE of Rs 25,500 crore, and achieved a FD RE of Rs 76,500 crore. And the list goes on,

The numbers are different under Actuals.

1.jpg

Total deficit was 4.2%, not the Revised 8.9%. Next one's 9.2%, but it won't be at that level when the Actuals come out. It's just a case of overpromising and underdelivering, typical of bimaru states. They keep returning unspent money.

This one's from 2022-23.

Yeah, the amazing double engine. Where you outspend your budget by 28% and end up with a GSDP 8% smaller than your estimates.

Bihar's had a double engine for how many years now? And all these years of outspending their budget by COVID-era stimulus levels, face-f**king their balance sheets, and co-habiting with the supreme leader's party in the state has gotten them where exactly?

The "cost" of Karnataka for voting the BJP out is this - they're still one of India's richest large states (second only to Telangana), they're still outgrowing Bihar in both real and nominal terms, and despite getting lesser from the central government for the cardinal sin of voting against the supreme leader, they've always managed to stick to their budget predictions, within the margin of error.

Also, as for Andhra Pradesh, it's got nothing to do with double engine and everything to do with CBN being an effective administrator, something he demonstrated back when he was the chief minister of united Andhra Pradesh.

And to hard carry this point, Madhya Pradesh has had a double engine for how many years now? And a BJP government for around 25 years at this point (broken only by Kamal Nath's 1-year chief ministership). And what economic miracles have they worked out in the 11 years of double engine? They're still incredibly indebted and still one of the poorest states in India. For states that have never had a double-engine government, Tamil Nadu and Telangana have done way better within the same time frame.

Heck, until 2024, Odisha was under Naveen Patnaik, a neutral regional leader. And when Patnaik left office, Odisha had transformed from being India's poorest state to being close to the national average in income. It is the richest state in East and Central India (not including AP or MH), has the best fiscal indicators of any fast-growing big state in India while still maintaining a very generous welfare regime - all the while outperforming its budget estimates (again, within the margin of error).

This just goes to show what matters when you pull out the receipts instead of relying on stories - its governance and administrative competence.

Mate, I live in Karnataka, life sucks here. All prices are up. And most of Karnataka has not recevied sufficient development funds, and the govt is borrowing like crazy to fund all their free stuff. And they are paying for it by sucking the middle class dry. Property guidance values (circle rates) are up by 70%. And now they are talking about introducing some cess for services the middle class use.


Metro fare prices up big time. Bus fares are up too, while it's free for women.

These Congi retards are gonna kill us.

And we are only entering the second year.

With approximately Rs 2 lakh crore needed for subsidies and welfare schemes, only about Rs 60,000 crore—or 15% of the budget—remains for capital expenditure on development projects.

Anyway double engine means central schemes are implemented faster with the same party than with other parties. Plus it takes time to show on the ground. I mean, you are a victim of believing paper figures yourself in your posts.
 
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Arguing here is seriously more time-consuming than I believe time and again, but it's baffling. At this point, why even publish budget figures? To make a mockery of the budget? If this is the standard of your budget books, what would you expect from other government ledgers? And why would you expect your investors and lenders to believe anything you say?
Total deficit was 4.2%, not the Revised 8.9%. Next one's 9.2%, but it won't be at that level when the Actuals come out. It's just a case of overpromising and underdelivering, typical of bimaru states. They keep returning unspent money.
It's funny how it is normalized. Yeah, sure, they're the BIMARU states, they'll keep doing a worse job at maintaining their *censored*ing BUDGET books than a five year old does at maintaining his notes.

You know that Bihar is still using its budget estimate GSDP figures for its FRBM statement? Like, why? And UP does it even better; they just don't publish anything other than the budget at a glance and the annual financial statement.

And people complain when someone points out the fact that the states that publish borderline dishonest, delusional numbers in their budgets get more and more money from the central devolution pool, while states that have some of the best development and economic indices get less and less money.

It's better to stop justifying governments just because they happen to profess hate for the same group of people that you hate.

Mate, I live in Karnataka, life sucks here.
Yeah, true, that's broadly true. Just replace Karnataka with any state in India, and the statement will still be true.
All prices are up.
Welcome to India?

the govt is borrowing like crazy to fund all their free stuff.
Again, except for Odisha, a mineral-rich state that, until the BJP victory in 2024, had a competent government, and Gujarat, a first-world state with third-world human development indicators, this statement stands true for literally every political entity in India, including the supreme leader's own government.

Not saying this justifies the Karnataka government's actions, but this isn't isolated to Karnataka.
These Congi retards are gonna kill us.
Oh, for sure they will. That is if you're still alive after paying the honorable finance minister her share of the cut.

Anyway double engine means central schemes are implemented faster with the same party than with other parties.
It certainly means you get unlimited money with no regard for accountability or past fiscal performance. They get more for what you pay, the richer states get less for what they pay, they fail to narrow the gap, and then they lecture the richer states on how they should manage their budgets, definitely yeah, sure.
Plus it takes time to show on the ground.
Man, it's been 11 years in MP; god knows how many years in Bihar. How much time does it take? These states are still the most underdeveloped, poor, bankrupt, and destitute in what is already a poor country.

Look, I lived in Bengaluru during my undergrad internship; I've been living in Maharashtra (in the obvious city) for my postgrad summer internship. And more or less, I understand the mess that Bengaluru is, and that doesn't speak well for the rest of Karnataka. But then, depending on where you live, Bengaluru can be a heaven compared to Mumbai. The Maharashtra government has been double-engine for 9 years (with a 2-year break when Uddhav Thackeray was in power). And despite the tall promises, as you said, on the ground, Mumbai is a super-expensive, barely livable mess. Anywhere outside Worli, Parel/Prabhadevi, Malabar, and Nariman is a traffic-jammed, dug-up, unwalkable garbage dump. Unless you're willing to pay 60K a month rent for a 650 sq ft apartment in Hiranandani. Heck, for half that price, you can rent an apartment in Indiranagar or HSR ffs. Oh, and Nagpur is barely a city; it's just a bunch of poorly built residential colonies clustered at some points along a super-wide highway.

Oh, and the Maharashtra government has its version of Ladli-Behna, and they're already straining/capping their finances. And mind you, this is barely their first year. Just wait for their second year as well.

And this brings us back to the original post - it's a strange thing in India when a group or a political entity hates the same group of people as you, whether it be caste, religion, lifestyle, or language; everyone just disregards obvious incompetence or malice.

Like, people start justifying a freeze to the education budget by bringing up private schools (like, WTF!!??), entirely overlook the freeze in the healthcare budget, etc.

And when someone points out obvious things like the streets being open-air garbage dumps and rivers being sewage channels, the first response is "Go to Pakistan"!! (seriously WTF!?).

Anyway, I'll end the rant and the argument thread here.