Indian Economy : News,Discussions & Updates

Were you party to the transaction? How can you be so sure about it? Farmers haven't claimed anything like the, have they?

The sellers definitely got packaged seeds and no it's not "clear" that you can remove a packaging and claim it to be unbranded even when it is registered and protected under the act. For all I know you will still be in violation.


This was their only way out, you(not you in particular) can claim whatever you want later, they have group of lawyers and NGO's, TV and news and still they plead relief under section 42 because their lawyer wasn't aware of rights? Yeah, very believable.
This is comical, are you trying to prove farmers are wrong - read the interview I earlier posted of famers on the very first day when case was filed, even see the RT program above - they clearly said, a guy came examined there Potato field, expressed interest in buying. Even inquired, what variety it was - the farmers responded by saying don't know, its more white inside. they asked where you got he seed from & farmers reverted, they got it from village exchange seeds.
2 things get established - farmers only knew they are more white & not variety name, b) they did not buy it in packed format.
All my family members are either in defense or in farming, I can tell you one thing, no decent farmer buys seeds in packed/branded format - its more in exchange & resowing earlier good produce available in market. I also had the misfortune to study Law in collage in my Hons degree.


This topic has dragged enough, you can choose to believe what you do, or ask any lawyer to explain what Sec39 means, never thought I be debating what I know is a straight forward, unambiguous law, which cant have 2 interpretations legally.
 
All my family members are either in defense or in farming, I can tell you one thing, no decent farmer buys seeds in packed/branded format - its more in exchange & resowing earlier good produce available in market.
I am from a farmers family myself, have done farming and I can tell you every decent farmer buy better high yielding variety as return is better, gone are those days where they use to sow leftovers, or maybe in your area they follow what you have said but in majority of area they buy seeds. As far as knowing law goes I won't flaunt my credentials it will feel like bragging. Peace.

or ask any lawyer to explain what Sec39 means, never thought I be debating what I know is a straight forward, unambiguous law, which cant have 2 interpretations legally.
Yeah so straightforward, simple and unambiguous yet not used as defence, except on forum.

But you are right, too much time is spent on it, I already said my piece in last post if you got the hint.
 
I am from a farmers family myself, have done farming and I can tell you every decent farmer buy better high yielding variety as return is better, gone are those days where they use to sow leftovers, or maybe in your area they follow what you have said but in majority of area they buy seeds. As far as knowing law goes I won't flaunt my credentials in that field but they are significant above what you have mentioned (hate to say this, not trying to brag just stating).


Yeah so straightforward, simple and unambiguous yet not used as defence, except on forum.

But you are right, too much time is spent on it, I already said my piece in last post if you got the hint.
My My - if a new very good variety comes in market, its bought ONE time only & then resowed/exchanged multiple times etc. You need not be first to buy branded seed, once someone in your village or district gets it & gets a bumber crop, everyone exchanges seeds from them or buy them from them. The farmer will not repack & label the seed with variety name, will sell it right out of bori.
Secondly even if assume, the farmers bought branded seed, he still has not broken a law, only the seller has broken a law by selling a protected brand in branded format. so even then no case.
Lastly the proof of the pudding is in PepsiCo withdrew - you have nothing to respond by virtue of Sec39, which governs the law, only putting attention, on what the villagers plea was. If any villager is put a court case & fine in any case, he will plead ignorance, its for the lawyers in court of law which will examine did they actually break a law in first case & later were they genuinely ignorance. Here by Sec 39 no they didn't break a law. PepsiCo withdrew.

India laws even allow you to persue a case, even if PepsiCo withdrew, you can still do so. Pls do
 
India laws even allow you to persue a case, even if PepsiCo withdrew, you can still do so. Pls do
Am I the aggrieved party? Farmers violated my agreement? Judge will throw the case in first hearing, I thought you know you'll be aware of it since you read law, even plenty of recent judgement did that. If you have nothing new to say and repeat same thing you can stop quoting my posts. Peace.
 
Am I the aggrieved party? Farmers violated my agreement? Judge will throw the case in first hearing, I thought you know you'll be aware of it since you read law, even plenty of recent judgement did that. If you have nothing new to say and repeat same thing you can stop quoting my posts. Peace.
yes you can, you can report a crime & demand they miscreants (farmers) pay up for there crime & be punished. You will not get any reward. But you can pursue justice. Many people make a living just out of filing cases against others, where they are neither involved or the aggrieved party, when they know someone is in wrong & then settling it for money outside.
We will follow your case, it be fun :)
Ask a lawyer he will confirm it & help you file a charge.
 
yes you can, you can report a crime & demand they miscreants (farmers) pay up for there crime & be punished. You will not get any reward. But you can pursue justice. Many people make a living just out of filing cases against others, where they are neither involved or the aggrieved party, when they know someone is in wrong & then settling it for money outside.
We will follow your case, it be fun :)
Ask a lawyer he will confirm it & help you file a charge.
If only you knew the conditions for it, difference between crime and civil dispute.
 
It is a crime if Farmers broke a law, besides most cases of defense like Bofors/Rafale too anyone can file a petition to peruse a case. Same way you can too.
Those are public interest litigation, the hint I gave in last post by saying conditions. Almost 90+% PIL are thrown out within few minutes of hearing, there is one thing to read it in book other to see it in action. Which PIL to listen and which one to throw out has some grey areas to it too, won't say anything more on that matter, talk to a lawyer you'll get insight of it.
 
Those are public interest litigation, the hint I gave in last post by saying conditions. Almost 90+% PIL are thrown out within few minutes of hearing, there is one thing to read it on book other to see it in action. Which PIL to listen and which one to throw out has some grey areas to it too, won't say anything more on that matter, talk to a lawyer you'll get insight of it.
Ofcource it be thrown away, Sec39 is explicit. You be wasting time, there is no case to begin with. But if you have solid proof & backing of facts that farmers were in the wrong, then you can pursue willful cheating, illegal intellectual property theft etc. Same way as you can pursue any vender in say Palika Bazaar selling pirated CDs in PIL, neither you are you involved in any way, its in interest in Public, that order & rules are followed by all.
But question is do you have any Law backing your argument? None which you showed for certain.
Am off
 
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Ofcource it be thrown away, Sec39 is explicit. You be wasting time, there is no case to begin with. But if you have solid proof & backing of facts that farmers were in the wrong, then you can pursue willful cheating, illegal intellectual property theft etc. Same way as you can pursue any vender in say Palika Bazaar selling pirated CDs in PIL, neither you are you involved in any way, its in interest in Public, that order & rules are followed by all.
But question is do you have any Law backing your argument? None which you showed for certain.
Am off
Gayi bhens pani mai 🤦 you can declare yourself winner at first post itself, atleast others will be spared of twisting and out of context mixing. Your first argument was not used by actual lawyer yet your expertise keep pushing it, second was about zero knowledge of PIL, yet you so creatively mixed two to declare yourself a winner. Amazing :ROFLMAO:
 
Could the single engine driving India crash? Yes, if you go by one of Modi's top guys
ET Online | Updated: May 09, 2019, 02.57 PM IST

Highlights
  • In view of the coming crisis, India could soon get ensnared in the middle-income trap.
  • Many sectors like auto, FMCG and air travel, among others, are already wallowing in multi-quarter lows.
  • Decreasing money supply, rising uncertainty, and a plunge in income growth are forcing Indians to cut down on spending.
  • Roy said that the 10 crore Indian consumers who have so far been powering India's growth story are beginning to plat ..

At a time when the shadow of a slowdown lengthens but the government steadfastly downplays any such concern, here comes a cracker of an observation from one of India's most celebrated economists who also happens to be a vital cog in Modi's policy team.

In an interview to NDTV, Rathin Roy, member of the Prime Minister's Economic Advisory Council (PMEAC) and Director of National Institute of Public Finance & Policy, said that India could be headed towards a structural crisis.

In view of the coming crisis, India could soon get ensnared in the middle-income trap, eventually becoming like Brazil or South Africa, the top economist warned.

"In the history of the world, countries have avoided the middle income trap, but no country — once caught in it — has ever been able to get out," he said.

The shadow of a slowdown
An ET Intelligence Group survey had found a few days ago that India's consumption story was seriously misfiring — with many sectors like auto, FMCG and air travel, among others, wallowing in multi-quarter lows.

Decreasing money supply, rising uncertainty, and a plunge in income growth in both rural and urban India were forcing people to cut down on spending, the study had discovered.

These findings were particularly worrying for the economy because consumption was till now just about the only real driver that had kept India moving. Both macro data (like household savings) and micro data (like sector and company volume) showed Indian households may have cut consumption due to slow income growth, analysts said.

Whoever comes to power on May 23 will have to step on the gas if consumption — which due to lack of private investment and export growth has assumed primary significance for the economy — were to be brought back on track to help India avoid that trap, according to experts.

Whoever comes to power on May 23 will have to step on the gas if consumption — which due to lack of private investment and export growth has assumed primary significance for the economy — were to be brought back on track to help India avoid that trap, according to experts.

During the same period, the comparable figure for China stood at $8,690, which put it well above the halfway mark in the upper middle income range — defined as GNI per capita between $3,896 and $12,055.

Roy said that the 10 crore Indian consumers who have so far been powering India's growth story are now beginning to plateau out. He called it an early warning: since 1991 the economy has been driven not by exports but by what these 10 crore consumers wanted to buy.

The risk, Roy said, now runs deeper; the possibility that India will remain stuck at the middle income range has now started appearing more and more real, which indicates India will never be another China or South Korea but could begin replicating basket cases like South Africa or Brazil where large swathes of poor population are powering not growth, but crime
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A word of caution
The widely respected policy czar's words have underlined the fate of an economy caught between a rock and a hard place at a time when a slowdown has gradually taken firm hold, analysts have opined.

And it's not just Rathin Roy. Even the Ministry of Finance, in its Monthly Economic Report of March 2019, had shed ample light on the current scenario. "India's economy appears to have slowed down slightly in 2018-19. The proximate factors responsible for this slowdown include declining growth of private consumption, tepid increase in fixed investment, and muted exports," it had warned.

And what does Roy think of the claim about India being the world's fastest-growing economy? India certainly is currently the world's fastest-growing, but this is not the fastest growth in India's history, he says, adding an interesting aspect to the debate — he thinks India is fastest only because China is not currently the fastest.

A growth rate of 6.1-6.6 per cent is not bad, but consumption slowdown is going to put that under threat, Roy warned: "A time will come when that will stop."

Could the single engine driving India crash? Yes, if you go by one of Modi's top guys
 
India's next government will have a growth problem

Soutik Biswas, India correspondent, 17 May 2019

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Economists say India's growth is powered by the 'top 100 million' people

As India lumbers towards the final phase of an exhausting general election and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's BJP seeks a second term in power, there's some worrying news. The world's fastest growing major economy appears to be headed for a slowdown.

The signs are everywhere. Economic growth slowed to 6.6% in the three months to December, the slowest in six quarters. Sales of cars and SUVs have slumped to a seven-year-low. Tractors and two-wheelers sales are down. Net profits for 334 companies (excluding banks and financials) are down 18% year-on-year, according to the Financial Express newspaper.

That's not all. In March, passenger growth in the world's fastest growing aviation market expanded at the slowest pace in nearly six years. Demand for bank credit has spluttered. Hindustan Unilever, India's leading maker of fast moving consumer goods, has reported March quarter revenue growth of just 7%, its weakest in 18 months.

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Sales of cars and SUVs have slumped to a seven-year-low.

One newspaper wondered whether India was "losing the consumption plot". Taken together, all this points to a fall in both urban and rural incomes, leading to demand contraction. A crop glut has seen farm incomes drop. And credit stagnation, partly triggered by the collapse of a major non-banking financial institution, or a shadow bank, has led to a fall in lending and worsened matters.

Kaushik Basu, former chief economist of the World Bank and professor of economics at Cornell University, believes the slowdown is "much more serious" than he initially believed. "The evidence is now mounting to the point where it can no longer be ignored," he told me.

One reason, he believes, is the controversial currency ban in 2016 - also called demonetisation - which adversely hit farmers. More than 80% of the currency circulating in India's sprawling cash-driven economy was taken out of circulation in what, in the words of one of Prime Minister Modi's own advisers, was a "massive, draconian, monetary shock"

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"This was evident to all by early 2017. What many observers did not realise then - I did not - is that the shock made the farmers take on debts which ended up causing sustained hardship to them that is continuing and slowing down the agriculture sector."

The other major disappointment, according to Prof Basu, has been exports. "Export growth has been close to zero for the last five years. For a low-wage economy like India, a little policy professionalism - a combination of monetary policy and micro incentives - is all that is needed to grow this sector. It is regrettable that the rhetoric was not backed up with policy design."

Others like economist Rathin Roy, a member of the Prime Minister's Economic Advisory Council, believe that India's consumption story could actually be leveling out.

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India needs to produce more for its domestic market

Dr Roy believes India's rapid growth has been essentially powered by its top 100 million citizens. The leading indicators of economic prosperity, he says, are things that these Indians consume - cars, two wheelers, air conditioners and so on. Having had their fill of home-made goods, they have now moved to imported luxuries - foreign holidays and Italian kitchens, for example.

A majority of Indians want nutritious food, affordable clothing and housing, health and education, which really should be the leading indicators of economic growth. "Subsidies and income support cannot pay for such consumption on a massive scale. At least half the population should earn incomes that enable them to buy these at affordable prices so that a maximum of 500 million people can be subsidised to improve their welfare," Dr Roy says.

Unless India is able to do this in the next decade or so, Dr Roy believes, it is headed for what economists call a "middle income trap", when a country stops being able to achieve rapid growth easily and compete with advanced economies. Economist Ardo Hannson defines it as a situation when countries "seem to get stuck in a trap where your costs are escalating and you lose competitiveness".

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India's rising upper middle class has substantial disposable income

One problem is that once you are stuck in a middle income trap, it is difficult to get out. A World Bank study found that out of the 101 middle-income countries in 1960, some 13 had become high-income by 2008 based on per capita income relative to the US. Only three of the 13 countries have a population of more than 25 million. India is a lower-middle income economy and to get caught in a trap at this stage will be tragic.

Dr Roy says the classic middle income trap means that the rich are taxed to provide minimum services to the poor, who will kept from extreme poverty and vulnerability by using such taxes to subsidise their existence, including an universal basic income in perpetuity.

"We will be Brazil. On the other hand If India produces what all Indians want to consume efficiently, and at affordable prices, then inclusive growth will stave off the middle income trap. We will be Japan," says Dr Roy.

The next government has its work cut out.

India's next government faces economic slowdown
 
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"On the other hand If India produces what all Indians want to consume efficiently, and at affordable prices, then inclusive growth will stave off the middle income trap. We will be Japan," says Dr Roy.
This is what we need , rest of the stuff is just stats & bluster.
 
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This is what we need , rest of the stuff is just stats & bluster.
One sentence but still a broad statement don't you think ? Produce what can be sold and how many can be sold. Capitalism in a nutshell, with some checks and balances of course. I'd still love it if somebody went deep into the issues we face today and how can we overcome them, rather than making broad statements.
 
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Dr Roy believes

This economist first mistake is he has inserted "belief" before numbers (showing positive undercurrents like credit stabilisation and growth, smoother integrated liquidity channels and better broader investment)....given the lag time for some broader effects to take shape.

Middle income trap? India still is in early stage of the middle income area in first place.

We have to give at least one more term at current inflection point (with lot of important stuff stalled by UPA 1 and 2 and their terrible mismanagement of what they inherited as far as capex + reforms go).

10 years of actual reforms/pro-growth policies to undo 10 years of stasis/status quo at the least. Then crunch analysis after that.

If in next 5 year term, India does not get to somewhere in 5 - 6 trillion nominal USD GDP at end of it, then there is definitely an argument that will start for middle income trap longer term....because by then more time has been given for what has been done in (current term 1) to manifest in hard numbers. This was also an issue with the UPA 1 taking much unfair credit (in their term) for what NDA did under vajpai...and completely reverting to subsidy (over capex + reform + growth) BS again.