Question for the board:
Could India intercept an attack on the scale of the Iranian attack on Israel? A mix of a few hundred drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.
Keeping in mind that India wouldn't have the 8-9 hours of notice because China and Pakistan are right next door. India also has many more targets and the US/UK wouldn't come to India's aid.
I know the S400 would do work but wouldn't those systems be overwhelmed by this type of attack? How would India deal with ballistic missiles at exo-atmosphere distances?
How would India deal with such a strike package?
Could India intercept an attack on the scale of the Iranian attack on Israel? A mix of a few hundred drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.
Keeping in mind that India wouldn't have the 8-9 hours of notice because China and Pakistan are right next door. India also has many more targets and the US/UK wouldn't come to India's aid.
I know the S400 would do work but wouldn't those systems be overwhelmed by this type of attack? How would India deal with ballistic missiles at exo-atmosphere distances?
How would India deal with such a strike package?
Astra MK2 is far more necessary than mk3. We need some thing in the class of amraam c7 & d as well as something that can match the pl-15 as well.
Absolutely. That's why I think the news regarding IAF ditching Astra MK2 is simply BS.
We are not at that level now, IMO. But we're working towards enhancing our IADS at a rapid pace from AA guns, Laser/DEW weapons, MANPADS, SRSAMs, MRSAMs to LRSAMs and even BMD in the end. Only a matter of time before our A2/AD bubble becomes almost as strong as the Chinese.
India to test 130 km strike range Astra Mark-2 missile this year
The Astra Mark-1 air-to-air missile with strike range of around 90-100 kms is already in the Indian Air Force is already integrated with the LCA Tejas and the Su-30 MKI fighter jets.New Delhi [India], April 16 (ANI) In a major capability boost for the Air Force’s fighter fleet, India is planning to carry out the first test of the 120–130 km strike range Astra Mark 2 air-to-air missile in next few months.
The Astra Mark-1 air-to-air missile with strike range of around 90–100 kms is already in the Indian Air Force and is already integrated with the LCA Tejas and the Su-30 MKI fighter jets.
The work on developing the 120-130 km strike range Astra Mark-2 air-to-air missile is going on and we are looking to carry out the first test firing in the next few months, defence officials told ANI.
The Astra Mark 2 would give the Indian Air Force an edge over the adversaries in air-to-air combat and can also be offered as an export product to friendly foreign countries operating the Russian origin Sukhoi, they said.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation has been working towards developing the Astra Mark-1 and Astra Mark 2, along with a longer version, the Astra Mark-3, which would give it a capability similar to the Meteor missiles that have come to India along with the Rafale fighter jets.
The Pakistanis may have long-range Chinese PL-15 air-to-air missiles but there is no clarity about the claims made by them about its capabilities.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has already signed a contract with Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) for supplying Astra Mark-1 beyond visual range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAM) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Navy. (ANI)
I think so.
It is hard to say with certainty, but it does appear LFRJ is connected to the STAR project.
Logically the eventual goal must be to replace the Russian ramjet engine on the Brahmos:
On paper we do have the interceptors for such a job. Our AD missiles stock will be depleted though.
That can be both a boon & a bane. Since they are right next-door shorter-range AD missiles can be pretty effective. There are other advantages too. In Pakistan's case, quite a few of their launch pads & bases can be subjected to continuous EW attacks both from ground & from air. That will significantly degrade drone & cruise missile's effectiveness.
Nobody is counting on them.
Given their limited numbers, S400s are best used against ballistic missiles, enemy AWE&CS aircraft & long-range bombers. Barak-8 is a better fit against cruise missiles. QRSAMs, VL-SRSAMS, SAMAR, Lasers etc. against drones.
Of course, fighters can shoot a few threats down too.
A combination of Swordfish, VLRTRs, MOTR etc. radars for tracking & PDV/AAD missiles for interception. We can use the S400s as back up. If you have no info on the Indian BMD program then wiki is a good place to start:
Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Wikipedia
Our problem right now is a comically small AWACS fleet, an equally small spy sat fleet, hilariously outdated SPAAGs, inadequate sensor fusion & co-operative engagement capabilities.
On the missiles, radar, laser & EW front we have pretty good systems with us. Most of these systems are Indian, so no major import dependency. There are better systems on the way on all fronts. Better missiles, radars EW, lasers etc. What we need here is numbers. We need to purchase them in good numbers.
This is from the current edition DSJ paper , both of the researchers are project leads so its obviously a good one. if you remember I posted the LFRJ CV and LV test jig tender recently.
Project STAR yeah, there was tender few weeks ago. Its similar to the sections and parts already posted above by @Gautam sir.
Biggest worry, especially considering how much more cost efficient it's becoming to mass produce these IRBMs/MRBMs lately.
I was under the impression that the ABM capabilities of the S400s were limited. That was the reason for S500 development?
I am aware that India has a BMD program I'm just not entirely sure how prepared it is. I know they've tested satellite interceptions and the PAD has had tests done in the past and the swordfish radar for target tracking but.. like what early warning mechanisms are available? AAD and more modern interceptors are still listed as in development, what's the timeframe for induction and in the meantime could we say there are 100+ PAD to intercept incoming ballistic missiles?
I get that the details are probably scant due to national security but some details available on deployment. Similar to the SM and Arrow series, we don't know the exact number but know the costs the contributions towards purchases over the years.
Just need to produce more and ensure that the lines are ready to backfill at a moment's notice I suppose.
Obviously it looks like for STAR now, but what if we're developing this tech for BrahMos-NG? Depending upon Russians for this project won't be smart, IMO. Having a desi Liquid-fueled Ramjet would do wonders to keep the costs low and mass-produce this missile.
@marich01, what is your opinion about the same?
We're deliberately understating the range of this missle and few others(Akash-NG) because of export needs, IMO. Maybe, the systems we export won't have the same propellant and seeker like the desi-version(s).
Also, Astra MK1(redesigned version) went through captive/separation trials in Dec 2013 and was fired around mid 2014. Astra MK2' captive/separation trails happened way back in mid-2022. Who are we fooling when we say that it hasn't been fired yet(from MKI)? I think this is for user-trials. Anyways, you won't agree with me, so
China has the capability to produce IRBMs/MRBMs at scale. Pakistan? I have some doubts.
Countries that can make IRBMs/MRBMs can also convert these missiles into satellite launch vehicles. Take for example Iran, Israel, North Korea etc. Pakistani BMs will at least give them small satellite launch capability similar to ISRO's SLVs. Pakistan currently has no satellite launch capabilities. So, why not convert the BMs to an sat launcher? Having independent sat launch capability is after all a strategic capability.
They will need to make minimal changes to the design of their BMs. Payload bus might need significant re-work. But it is their own design, right? Shouldn't be a big deal then. Yet they don't do it. Decades have gone by since Pakistan has acquired MRBMs, still no attempt is made in that direction.
There is only one conclusion that one can draw from this. They have no design control over their BMs.
Production capability is also a suspect. A decade back every time we tested a missile, Pakistan also tested a missile. We test an IRBM/ICBM, Pakistan has to test a MRBM. We test a cruise missile, Pakistan has to test a cruise missile. Sometimes they would test a BM in response to ISRO launching a PSLV. Silly as it maybe, but this was their way of drawing a parity with us.
You don't see them do this anymore. What was the Pakistani response to the recent A5 test? Press conferences?
Yes, S400s are limited to endo-atmospheric interceptions. Still, they can be used for bolstering AD capabilities.
You have mixed a few things up. Let me simplify. BMD program has 2 phases:
1. Phase 1: For intercepting IRBMs with up to 3000 KM range.
2. Phase 2: For intercepting ICBMs with ranges of 5000+ KM.
Phase 1 is complete. There are at least 2 known bases where they have been deployed. One facing China, one facing Pakistan. There is another base coming up around Bangalore for AD cover around central India. There might be another AD base near Thanjavur AFS in the future.
Phase 1 will use 2 missiles. PDV missile for exo-atmospheric interceptions & AAD missile for endo-atmospheric interceptions. PDV is an evolved version of the PAD. PAD never entered service.
PDV Mk-2 is the missile that shot down a satellite. That missile is also expected to be deployed as a ground based mid-course interceptor for ICBMs.
Phase 2 will have 2 missiles. AD-1 against endo-atmospheric & low exo-atmospheric targets. AD-2 against exo-atmospheric targets. AD-1 has been tested one. AD-2 has seen no flight yet.
As for sat based early warning we have:
1. CARTOSAT family for high resolution visible spectrum imagery.
2. GISAT family for quick reaction IR imagery for detecting missile launches.
3. RISAT family for high resolution radar imagery.
4. EMISAT family for EM emission surveillance.
5. HySIS family for high resolution hyperspectral imagery. Seeing through tree cover in forested regions.
6. INSAT & GSAT families for military comms.
This is not an exhaustive list. But you get the picture. We have sats in almost every area. But we don't have enough of anything. We need numbers.
Numbers are hard got come by. There was a poster showing the many vehicles that will be deployed in a squadron. Since we know the number of missiles per launcher maybe we can work something out. Let me see if I can find it.
There is thinking in the MoD that if we a lot of the current hardware (missiles, ships etc.) then by the time the last of this gen goes into service. The new gen hardware will come around and render the current gen obsolete. When the next gen hardware comes around, we will use this same line of thinking and not buy too many of those either.
Perpetual crab mentality.
We have programs/plans running to improve the overall situation.
We will also need a lot more investment in smaller calibre gun based air defence to tacked the problem of Quadcopters/FPV drones. 12.7mm SRCG can be pretty effective against these types of targets. We need to install these systems along our frontiers and important bases/infrastructure.
And hopefully QR-SAM, Akash NG & VL SRSAM sees daylight as we cannot exactly depend on OSA, Barak 1, Shtil, etc.
PGB 500 target being acquired by ARDE for some project. This is just the concrete & grill made target site that is used for bomb precision hit during trials. Its likely for the 450 PG-HSLD test, could be also TARA or other glide bomb/freefall bomb testing.
And I was correctWe're deliberately understating the range of this missle and few others(Akash-NG) because of export needs, IMO. Maybe, the systems we export won't have the same propellant and seeker like the desi-version(s).
Also, Astra MK1(redesigned version) went through captive/separation trials in Dec 2013 and was fired around mid 2014. Astra MK2' captive/separation trails happened way back in mid-2022. Who are we fooling when we say that it hasn't been fired yet(from MKI)? I think this is for user-trials. Anyways, you won't agree with me, so
:
DRDO And NAL Collaborate On A New Small Turbojet For UCAV Applications
India has long felt the need to develop domestic jet engine capability. Apart from the PTAE-7 turbojet developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s (HAL’s) Engine and Test Bed Research and Design Centre, which is used to power the Lakshya pilotless target aircraft, it however does not have any...
I wonder what happened to this. It could have been perfect for a small anti-ship missile use case.
Where do we put our DEW stuff , again ?
This system is intended as quite large, see the EOI doc. Proper high power laser.
This system is intended as quite large, see the EOI doc. Proper high power laser.