China has already sat back and seen state of the art technology transferred to India. Nuke subs, brahmos, MKIs....
Indian Nuclear Attack Submarine (Project 77) - Updates & Discussions
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China has already sat back and seen state of the art technology transferred to India. Nuke subs, brahmos, MKIs....
Not only major navy but major economy as well.
Such a sad state of affairs.
Seems like our military power will remain third class no matter how much economic progress we make.
Such a sad state of affairs.
Seems like our military power will remain third class no matter how much economic progress we make.
40% blame goes to Finance Ministry
20% blame each to PMO & MoD
20% blame rests at Armed Forces
Out of 80% fault which is under finance, defence & pmo , 20% fault lies with politicians & 80% fault lies at IAS.
So 64% fault lies at IAS level.
100% fault lies with defense minister and PM. Most of our IAS officers are idiots and arrogant of top order and that’s what DM and PM were supposed to fix.
It's much more complicated than that. Apparently within the IN there's an aircraft carrier lobby which is extremely strong & pitched against the submarine lobby. MoD has asked IN to set priority to either project as we can't fund both simultaneously. IN is adamant about having both complaining that they've downsized their requirements for the AC from 65000 tonnes to INS Vikrant size.
If you recall the late CDS Gen Rawat too got into a fracas with IN top brass over the same AC vs submarine issue. That's where the issue stands at the moment plus no clarity as to whether the 190MW N reactor to power these SSNs is ready. It was supposed to be ready last year .
The thing is being in Navy itself, we would think the person will know the importance of a Minesweeper operations , Submarine operations , helicopters & aircrafts importance for the Aircraft Carrier to work efficiently.
But it seems the experts in Navy live in another dimension.
Exactly and that’s where the PM shall use the veto power. There are always lobbies and a good leader is suppose to take a rational decision irrespective of how strong the lobby is.
Not so easy to change of nuclear reactor. In the case of an indian nuc reactor french SSN, all have to be re studied ! Result may have the external shape of a Barracuda, but it's not the same sub because the 2 nuc reactors will have different weights & different shapes.
The AUKUS Deal and India’s Submarine Dilemma
India’s quest for SSNs to ensure true deterrence against China will only be fulfilled with external assistance.
thediplomat.com
Writter advocating leasing of French/US boats.
Problem : there is no french SSN to be leased, because the fleet already is limited to the strict minimum.
Difficult to imagine to ordered some more SSN yet, because lead time for some nuc reactor parts are huge, and the planning already fulfilled by next gen deterrence subs (SNLE 3G).
I would be happy to see a 7th SSN in the french marine, but unfortunately it will not be the case.
There is an error in the news : Scorpene was not earlier a SSN. Scorpene is only a SSK. The actuel french SSN (2nd gen) is Barracuda. 1st gen SSN are the Rubis class, too old to be a real father of Scorpene.The AUKUS Deal and India’s Submarine Dilemma
India’s quest for SSNs to ensure true deterrence against China will only be fulfilled with external assistance.thediplomat.com
Writter advocating leasing of French/US boats.
It's already difficult for USA (and GB) to lease SSN to Australia, so no way for India I'm afraid.The AUKUS Deal and India’s Submarine Dilemma
India’s quest for SSNs to ensure true deterrence against China will only be fulfilled with external assistance.thediplomat.com
Writter advocating leasing of French/US boats.
Why Low Enriched Uranium Fuel for Submarine is a Vishwaguru virtue signaling Fuel & not a Practical one for what Nuclear Submarine are designed for......no wonder US & UK don't use it & have the most powerful & quietest subs out there.
Inside the fight over alternative sub fuel
It's sad that indian SSN & SSBN will continue to use Vishwaguru Fuel in Future Submarine as well since all our Nuclear submarine are based on
design 
Inside the fight over alternative sub fuel
It's sad that indian SSN & SSBN will continue to use Vishwaguru Fuel in Future Submarine as well since all our Nuclear submarine are based on
design
Construction of SBC-2, the second final-assembly line for the Indian Navy's six-boat SSN project, should be completed by the end of 2024. Thus, it can be concluded that the various hull-sections fabricated by Larsen & Toubro at its Hazira industrial facility will start arriving at SBC-2 from early 2025 onwards. This in turn implies fabrication of hull modules have already commenced at Hazira with the DMR-292A/292B steel that is being produced by SAIL.
Updates from Vizag, Bhuj & Naliya
The one you have marked S2- Arihant, is a Kalvari class. AIP fitting most probably. L&T is managing this.
The prospects of France assisting India in developing and constructing six nuclear-powered general-purpose attack submarines or SSNs for the Indian Navy (IN) are believed to have brightened following a meeting between PM Narendra Modi and President Emmanuel Macron in New Delhi on the sidelines of the recently concluded G20 summit.
Discussions between the two leaders — who were meeting for the second time in two months following Modi’s July visit to Paris as the chief guest at France’s Bastille Day parade — were centred on the “joint development, manufacture and testing of advanced military platforms and technologies”, said officials in Delhi. French assistance for the IN’s continuingly deferred SSN programme has long been on the anvil, with hush-hush discussions over it at an advanced stage.
Earlier, the joint Horizon 2047 document agreed upon during Modi’s Paris visit to mark 25 years of the bilateral strategic partnership between Delhi and Paris referred to both sides agreeing to “explore more ambitious projects to develop the Indian submarine fleet and its performance”. Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited in Mumbai had already licence-built six Kalvari (Scorpene)-class conventional diesel-electric ‘killer-hunter’ submarines under transfer of technology from France’s Naval Group, and is poised to begin constructing three more to further boost collaboration in more advanced underwater platform production.
India had approached France for assistance with its then putative and floundering nuclear-powered missile submarine (SSBN) programme after Paris had robustly backed New Delhi’s 1998 ‘Shakti’ nuclear tests. And though this support, when India was globally isolated and under US-led sanctions, had led to the two inking the bilateral strategic partnership, France had declined to be involved in India’s SSBN programme as, at the time, such assistance contravened prevailing global nuclear protocols. This negation had left India no choice but to turn to Russia as a default option, but senior industry officials conceded that the impending SSN project in the overall transformed security environment presented Paris and Delhi yet another collaborative opportunity to be exploited productively.
SSNs are employed for sundry missions such as anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, while SSBNs perform specialised strategic nuclear deterrence missions. The latter’s principal operational objectives are to safeguard a nuclear force’s second-strike capability by offering a safe and undetected location from where missiles can be launched when required.
Earlier this year, France reportedly offered to jointly develop SSNs with India, under the aegis of Delhi’s Atmanirbharta initiative designed to enhance self-sufficiency in materiel requirements, by transferring technology based on its Barracuda-class SSNs, the first of which — Suffren — was commissioned into the French Navy in mid-2022. Designed by the Naval Group, the 4.765-tonne and 99m-long Suffren was the first of the six SSNs scheduled to join France’s Marine Nationale by 2030 at an estimated cost of over $2 billion each.
France was eager to clinch this prospective SSN deal with India to compensate for Australia summarily scrapping in late 2021 the multi-million-dollar deal with the Naval Group to supply the Royal Australian Navy 12 conventional submarines, for which the latter paid $585 million as compensation. Instead, Australia entered into a $268-368-billion deal with the US and the UK for eight SSNs between now and around 2050 under the AUKUS strategic pact.
The IN, for its part, is keen on partnering the Naval Group for its SSN needs as the technology it offered is more advanced compared to that of Russia, the only P5 country amenable to such sensitive cooperation with India. Industry officials and analysts are of the view that French involvement in India’s SSN programme would, in all likelihood, be ‘endorsed’ by the US, whose strategic, defence and military technology ties with India are proliferating in a bid to challenge Chinese hegemony in the strategic Indian Ocean Region.
The IN’s SSN project, worth an estimated Rs 60,000 crore, was approved by the Ministry of Defence in early 2015, with the first of the 6,000-tonne boats scheduled for completion by 2032-33. These platforms comprised part of the Navy’s revised 30-year Project for the Series Construction of Submarines (till 2030) that envisaged the induction of 24 submarines, including six SSNs. These SSNs would supplement and operationally support the four or five 6,000-7,000-tonne Arihant-class SSBNs built with Russian knowhow and technical assistance, particularly with regard to miniaturising their 82.5MW pressurised light water reactors.
Meanwhile, India’s SSBN programme, undertaken jointly by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, the Department of Atomic Energy and the IN, is proceeding apace at the secretive Ship Building Centre (SCB) in Visakhapatnam. The third such platform — simply designated as S4 — was launched in late 2021 after INS Arighat, the second SSBN, was undergoing further fitment. These SSBNs comprise a vital component of India’s nuclear triad, aimed at sustaining its nuclear deterrence and no-first-use posture.
INS Arihant, the lead SSBN boat, was constructed at the SCB, drawing upon design elements of Soviet-era and Russian submarines from the Project 670A Skat-series (‘Charlie I’) and Project 667 (‘Delta I’) to the more recent Project 885 Yasen-class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarines (SSGNs). It was launched in July 2009; four years later, its on-board nuclear reactor attained criticality, enabling sea trials to begin in 2014 and weapon tests before its unannounced and low-key commissioning in August 2016. Two years later, Arihant completed its first deterrence patrol, confirming India’s three-tier retaliatory nuclear deterrent capability by adding maritime strike competence to its existing land and air-based capacity for delivering strategic weapons.
The IN, however, which acknowledged the SSBN programme’s existence only in December 2007, continues to claim that the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) had ‘exclusive’ management of the confidential programme. Funding for it was also confidential, supervised by the PMO via the National Security Adviser, it claimed. But having taken ownership of the SSN programme, it now behoves the Navy to imminently kickstart the project and stall the severe drawdown in its underwater assets.
It is understood that the Indian Navy brass has communicated to the Modi government that it plans to move the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for acceptance of necessity (AON) of repeat order of 45000 ton Vikrant class of aircraft carrier after shelving plans for larger warship, three nuclear powered conventionally armed submarines (SSN) in collaboration with key allies like France, and high tech diesel-electric submarines under Project 76. Based on the projection that Chinese carrier strike force could be patrolling high seas in Indian Ocean as early as 2025-2026, the Indian Navy does not want gaps in its capabilities and not lose machine tooling capabilities due to lack of orders to shipyards like Kochi and Mazagon. India's first aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya is currently operational while INS Vikrant is undergoing routine overhaul in Karwar Naval base.
www.hindustantimes.com
Navy wants a third carrier, nuclear subs to counter China in the Indo-Pacific
Indian understanding is that Chinese aircraft carriers (Liaoning and Shandong) can conduct round-the-clock fighter operations.
Possible Fatal Accident Aboard Chinese Navy Nuclear Submarine
H I Sutton - Covert Shores
www.hisutton.com
The last "news" here in Europe about the chinese SSN accident are :
The sub fall in a chinese trap made against west subs.
All the crew is dead of suffocation but the sub is afloat and damaged.
It is a least a possible explanation of the mysterious disappearance of the defense ministry.