LCA AF Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions

Moving the wing outboard is widening the wing.

The outboard section is part of the wing that's farthest from the fuselage. The closer you move towards the fuselage, you are moving inboard.

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If Moving the wing outboard is widening the wing , how can wing area remain same .

I thought moving the entire wing outward by widening the fuselage 15 cms on both sides.

Why would they use terms like moving the wing outboard instead of widening the wing / widening the fuselage?

Only the fusalage attached to root of wing is widened ?

@vstol Jockey
 
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I'm not talking about just the electronic LRUs, but the structural layout. The wings might outwardly look the same, but are being made to carry pretty much twice the payload than what they were originally meant for. That requires structural changes on the inside. That's what they mean by structurally different.

So yes, the testing we need to do is limited to just certifying the aerostructure under the new internal configuration. They don't expect this to take very long, but we still need to see if the changes negatively effect the aerostructure's integrity or longevity.

It's useless to say they are same as Mk1. You can't just take the Mk2's wings and put them on Mk1, it'll probably throw the DFCC off as the wings are likely to be of a different weight.



That's literally what RAF did. All Jag squadrons, including those for nuclear strike, directly exchanged Jags for Tornados. Of course Tornados could do so much more.




Well, the point is - the Jag (or Tornado)'s generation was simply not in any shape to fly a 25-30T aircraft with a single engine and still have any respectable TWR. Not to mention engine reliability was very questionable in those days. That's why it wasn't done.

5th gen engines can make this happen. That's why a single engine is sufficient for F-35.

Increasing cost & complexity by procuring and maintaining twice the number of engines, in the off-chance that you get shot in one of them (but not the other) is not practical strategy.

It's highly likely that even Russia might relegate most strike duties to the Checkmate (operating in conjunction with S-70) going ahead as the Su-34 won't be survivable and Su-57 is an ASF.



We'll do the same eventually. Manned platform is ultimately too risky.



I thought you said Jag & Tornado were not for the same role.



My, that's some self-awareness on your part.

It's simple. If it looks like an Mk1, it is an Mk1. The closer it is to an Mk1, the faster the flight testing time.

By your logic all Chinese Flankers are not Russian Flankers. Even the Chinese Flankers are structurally different and come with their own unique internal layouts and other electronics. They have nothing to do with Russian Flankers. So the Chinese do not copy Russian systems, all unique designs.

Jag and Tornado are like LCA and MKI. Overlap in roles as both are strike jets, but are meant to do different things. One hits troops, the other hits assembly areas, HQs etc, both belonging to the Soviet armies.
 
If Moving the wing outboard is widening the wing , how can wing area remain same .

I thought moving the entire wing outward by widening the fuselage 15 cms on both sides.

Why would they use terms like moving the wing outboard instead of widening the wing / widening the fuselage?

Only the fusalage attached to root of wing is widened ?

@vstol Jockey

Mk1/A's wing area is 38m2. Mk2's is 44m2.
 
It's simple. If it looks like an Mk1, it is an Mk1. The closer it is to an Mk1, the faster the flight testing time.

By your logic all Chinese Flankers are not Russian Flankers. Even the Chinese Flankers are structurally different and come with their own unique internal layouts and other electronics. They have nothing to do with Russian Flankers. So the Chinese do not copy Russian systems, all unique designs.

Jag and Tornado are like LCA and MKI. Overlap in roles as both are strike jets, but are meant to do different things. One hits troops, the other hits assembly areas, HQs etc, both belonging to the Soviet armies.

Meh, a bunch of false equivalences.

The key point is that a Mk1 can never be upgraded into a Mk2. Cuz they're structurally different. Same for Hornet, it can't be MLU'd into a Super Hornet. That's why they're not considered the same aircraft.

An F-16A can be upgraded into an F-16V. Cuz they're the same aircraft.

Anyway, the broader point is that Mk2 is a larger, heavier class of fighter that can do so much more than the Mk1. That puts it in a higher tier that can address a lot of the roles we would have originally needed an MMRCA for.

Mk2 can do Balakot way better than the Mirage could.
 
Mk1/A's wing area is 38m2. Mk2's is 44m2.

In our forum discussion happened how canard area also included in wing area.. and how it's huge for its look..
I was hoping to find it, to quote here , but unable.

I was also looking for empty weight of Gripen E to compare with Mk2 , I can't find anywhere..

Interesting empty weight of Mk2 is lesser than Mk1 , become more efficient with almost twice payload/ endurance.
 
It's simple. If it looks like an Mk1, it is an Mk1. The closer it is to an Mk1, the faster the flight testing time.

By your logic all Chinese Flankers are not Russian Flankers. Even the Chinese Flankers are structurally different and come with their own unique internal layouts and other electronics. They have nothing to do with Russian Flankers. So the Chinese do not copy Russian systems, all unique designs.

Jag and Tornado are like LCA and MKI. Overlap in roles as both are strike jets, but are meant to do different things. One hits troops, the other hits assembly areas, HQs etc, both belonging to the Soviet armies.
We really don't have any proper replacement plan for Jags, another capability we gonna lose without replacement,just like what happened with the mig25 retirement.
 
Meh, a bunch of false equivalences.

The key point is that a Mk1 can never be upgraded into a Mk2. Cuz they're structurally different. Same for Hornet, it can't be MLU'd into a Super Hornet. That's why they're not considered the same aircraft.

An F-16A can be upgraded into an F-16V. Cuz they're the same aircraft.

Anyway, the broader point is that Mk2 is a larger, heavier class of fighter that can do so much more than the Mk1. That puts it in a higher tier that can address a lot of the roles we would have originally needed an MMRCA for.

Mk2 can do Balakot way better than the Mirage could.
MK2 is a proper fighter jet, MK1/1a nothing but a trainer aircraft on steroid.
 
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While by no means definitive, Kuntal Biswas' CGI renders of Mk2 show a radome w/o pitot tube (Curiously, the Mk1A radome still has it despite carrying an AESA). So they could be testing for a conformal one, maybe?

There is article by Indranil roy about this nose cones.. mk1 Mk2 , how the diameter is reduced ..
Confidence in getting systems with less safety margins... Like the gap between radar and nose is reduced... Minimal increase in TRMs but nose cone diameter is reduced ..pitot tube is removed from nose cone etc etc..

Nose cone diameter reduction reduces radar cross section & drag.. etc
 
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Meh, a bunch of false equivalences.

The key point is that a Mk1 can never be upgraded into a Mk2. Cuz they're structurally different. Same for Hornet, it can't be MLU'd into a Super Hornet. That's why they're not considered the same aircraft.

An F-16A can be upgraded into an F-16V. Cuz they're the same aircraft.

The F-16 followed an MSIP system where each block came with some changes that accrued over time to the point that an F-16A cannot be upgraded to F-16V. So old jets and newer jets have their own upgrade paths.

For example, PAF's old F-16s cannot be upgraded to V, but only the 18 new ones can.

Anyway, the broader point is that Mk2 is a larger, heavier class of fighter that can do so much more than the Mk1. That puts it in a higher tier that can address a lot of the roles we would have originally needed an MMRCA for.

Mk2 can do Balakot way better than the Mirage could.

Sure, Mk2 is better than the M2000. But that was a pointless statement to make here.
 
In our forum discussion happened how canard area also included in wing area.. and how it's huge for its look..
I was hoping to find it, to quote here , but unable.

Canard is a control surface like the tail, it's not calculated in the wing area.

I was also looking for empty weight of Gripen E to compare with Mk2 , I can't find anywhere..

8T vs 7.8T.

Interesting empty weight of Mk2 is lesser than Mk1 , become more efficient with almost twice payload/ endurance.

Mk2's empty weight is much higher than Mk1.

Mk1's design requirement was 5.5T. It increased to 6.5T. That's how it became underpowered. HAL claimed Mk1A will see weight improvements, but this has nothing to do with ADA.

So we have to see if Mk2 will achieve 7.8T or ends up gaining weight.
 
We really don't have any proper replacement plan for Jags, another capability we gonna lose without replacement,just like what happened with the mig25 retirement.

MRFA and AMCA will replace Jags for deep strike and deep interdiction. For shorter distances like CAS, LCA will take over.

Mig-25 was replaced by ISR satellites. We had just 8 for recce.
 
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MRFA and AMCA will replace Jags for deep strike and deep interdiction. For shorter distances like CAS, LCA will take over.

Mig-25 was replaced by ISR satellites. We had just 8 for recce.
MRFA isn't a strike aircraft, and AMCA will not have payload capacity.
The true successor for Jag is either F35 or F15EX. SU34 could also fit the role, but i beleive it will have less survivability for such mission after seeing the perfomance in Ukrain.
 
MRFA isn't a strike aircraft, and AMCA will not have payload capacity.
The true successor for Jag is either F35 or F15EX. SU34 could also fit the role, but i beleive it will have less survivability for such mission after seeing the perfomance in Ukrain.

F-35, yeah, but we are not going for it. F-15E and Su-34 are not survivable.

MRFA, specifically Rafale, is suitable for strike. As is the AMCA.

There are some rumors about AMCA's MTOW being enhanced to 27T with increases in IWB and fuel.