LCA AF Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions

What crap. Flat-rate doesn't increase thrust. It only maintains thrust at higher temperatures while other engines lose thrust.

AMCA's engine won't magically break every law of physics and start delivering more thrust for a given rated temperature and air density that it is certified for. You can only go lower, not higher.

The 140 kN engine is a further upgrade with some next gen features.

Oof, even after explaining this sh!t, people don't get it. The bar for stupidity I tell ya. And such people challenge me. And they want source too.

Best to dumb it down to the level some people actually need it at. It's like comparing a 1T 3-star AC with PMI2.5 filter to a 1.2T 5 star AC with PMI1/2.5 and anti-bacteria/virus filter, wi-fi, and voice controls, both rated to 52 deg C for Indian weather vs 40 deg C for Scandinavian weather. That 1T AC is not gonna deliver 1.2T performance alongside all those non-existent features.

I'm sure now I will be asked for a source to confirm a PMI 2.5 filter cannot stop a PMI 1.0 pollutant. That's the level of discourse here.
 
I think it's amply clear a 120 KN flat rated TF will deliver 120 KN across weather conditions which means it's installed thrust rate is higher.

I believe the IAF or the MoD began describing the proposed JV with a F-OEM as one which will be tasked to develop a 120-140 KN TF to avoid getting into technicalities.

That wide band range suggested flat rated 120 KN TF is the requirement. However 135 KN in European conditions will deliver 120 KN here ( x= ISA+ 15-20°C ) .

That's where professional story teller tripped pun unintended & came up with this fanciful story. Even otherwise the proposed JV is touted to be 7 billion USD or INR 65000 crores as per official GoI sources .

Are we to understand we're getting 2 TFs including one with VCE for this budget of 7 billion USD ? Is SAFRAN running an ek par ek free offer ?
 
Sure. But the source is GTRE
That's just another one of the your claims.

I've yet to see any news of GTRE saying France will help in future VCE varient of JV engine for amca.
I just don't see it in public discourse.

I'm not discarding the possibility of us starting to develop a VCE version of JV engine in mid-late 2030s, possibly still have some french involvement, but i haven't seen any news of GTRE claiming that.

AFAIK, its hoax thinking, which is not unusual for you, given past records on this forum.
 
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AFAIK, its hoax thinking, which is not unusual for you, given past records on this forum.
Frankly this is the reason I feel bad for professional story teller . He could've simply stated he's of the impression we're going in for 2 TFs in succession wherein the second one will be likely a VCE with French collaboration.

Instead he comes up with these fanciful stories ties himself up in knots , paints a target on his back & before you realise it some newbie takes a shine to him & proceeds to hammer him black and blue.

It's now taken on the shape of an annual ritual. Practically every year I've seen this happen. Something's never change . For everything else there's Master Card.
 
That's just another one of the your claims.

I've yet to see any news of GTRE saying France will help in future VCE varient of JV engine for amca.
I just don't see it in public discourse.

I'm not discarding the possibility of us starting to develop a VCE version of JV engine in mid-late 2030s, possibly still have some french involvement, but i haven't seen any news of GTRE claiming that.

Lol, your ignorance is not my fault.

AFAIK, its hoax thinking, which is not unusual for you, given past records on this forum.

You mean how I've been consistently been making claims and they have largely been coming true?
 
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Lol, what's this magic 120 kN engine giving 135 kN?

An engine is developed with only one max rating. An AC rated for 52 deg will also work on 40 deg, but will struggle at 60 deg, that's all it means. It's so we can operate it in hot and high conditions where we have to deal with either higher ambient temp or lower air density.

The 140 kN is the uprated 120 kN for a next gen aircraft using the same core.

The engines will initially developed with 120 KN power but go up in capacity to 140 KN by the end of the 12 year time period.

Just dumbas*es I tell ya.

And get stomped by just public sources, never mind actual sources.

Safran will deliver 120 kN for AMCA, then uprate it to 140 kN for AMCA NG/post-AMCA/drones, and we will follow that up with the development of VCE (cold parts)) and CMC parts of our own that will be applied in a phased manner.
 
Says the one unable to back up his claims with any credible source.

Another delusional claim.
You should actually try searching for 2022 in the search bar with his name in the place for member . You'd see for yourself the number of predictions made . Check for how many of them have come true .

Believe me you'd be richly rewarded & also be hugely entertained if you're easily entertained.
 
We most definitely have plans for 6th gen VCE engines. Just wait n watch;)
Isn't it understood that a 80 KN TF has a core which can be up rated & down rated by anywhere between 10-20% , give or take , thus giving us a bandwidth of ~ 65 KN - 95 KN for that core ?

I mean is this even some sort of a miracle as professional story teller seems to be portraying it ?!

As far as the VCE goes is there any communication from SAFRAN or even RR stating they're willing to co develop such a TF with us ?

How can there be one when multiple officials including from the GTRE have publicly declared they're seeking tech for a TF with a TET of 2100 K ! There's nothing beyond that at least in the public domain.

As of now we've not even gotten down to defining what our requirement for a 6th Gen program is going to be like ? Is it going to be something like a beast resembling the J-36 , an analogue of the F-47 ? Or is it going to be more in the mode of the GCAP or the FCAS ?

Once again all we've are speculations on the above except for the J-36 whose flight was publicised. Nearly all of them will have TF with a wet thrust > 180 KN . So what exactly are we doing with a VCE with a proposed wet thrust of 140 KN ?
 
We most definitely have plans for 6th gen VCE engines. Just wait n watch;)
We have plans for many things,essentially every thing china& u.s. has and plans for.
We are growing in economy and military capabilities & eventually wants to match them

This is not some secret info, we will look for domestic vce engine in the future for our needs.
Then 7th gen engine in even far future, then 8th gen .........

Go read up on my claims then come back to make this statement.
No, a guy that can't even back his claims with any credible source is not worth the effort.

Your a professional storyteller as @_Anonymous_ says.
Sometimes it sticks Sometimes a miss.
 
We most definitely have plans for 6th gen VCE engines. Just wait n watch;)

At the moment, once 4th gen Kaveri is complete, we will pursue 4.5th gen Kaveri. There is a possibility we will start a new program at that point, but we don't have to. As I said, we will need to pursue 7th gen tech for post-AMCA.

Rather we will just upgrade the French 5th gen to 6th gen on our dime, while also replacing the hot cores of F414 and perhaps even the M88 with 6th gen tech, like CMC, when they come up for hot core overhaul. In a few more years, we will have the same CMC tech that's already going into the 120 kN engine, stators, liners etc.

The 140 kN engine will meet our immediate 6th gen needs.

As for a clean-sheet 6th gen engine for the aircraft ADA wishes to pursue for the 2050s, it will have to be developed from scratch. But with IAF pursuing SCAF/GCAP instead, ADA's program goes into doubt. And IN's requirement is a bit more modest, which the 140 kN engine can deliver. With AMCA's engine climbing up to 6th gen standards eventually, we can pursue the next level of technologies.

After CMC, we are gonna introduce UHTCMCs, and CSIR-CGCRI is developing it currently for hypersonic applications. Some of CSIR-NAL's next gen materials like CFCC are already at TRL 6.

So when CMC is being introduced on our engines, our UHTCMCs will start coming into media prominence for 7th gen engines. By 2045-50, we will have 7th gen engines, ie, about 20-25 years from now, the standard for development of such engines, in parallel with other developed countries.

We are not gonna keep chasing forever, we are gonna catch up.
 
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At the moment, once 4th gen Kaveri is complete, we will pursue 4.5th gen Kaveri. There is a possibility we will start a new program at that point, but we don't have to. As I said, we will need to pursue 7th gen tech for post-AMCA.

Rather we will just upgrade the French 5th gen to 6th gen on our dime, while also replacing the hot cores of F414 and perhaps even the M88 with 6th gen tech, like CMC, when they come up for hot core overhaul. In a few more years, we will have the same CMC tech that's already going into the 120 kN engine, stators, liners etc.

The 140 kN engine will meet our immediate 6th gen needs.

As for a clean-sheet 6th gen engine for the aircraft ADA wishes to pursue for the 2050s, it will have to be developed from scratch. But with IAF pursuing SCAF/GCAP instead, ADA's program goes into doubt. And IN's requirement is a bit more modest, which the 140 kN engine can deliver. With AMCA's engine climbing up to 6th gen standards eventually, we can pursue the next level of technologies.

After CMC, we are gonna introduce UHTCMCs, and CSIR-CGCRI is developing it currently for hypersonic applications. Some of CSIR-NAL's next gen materials like CFCC are already at TRL 6.

So when CMC is being introduced on our engines, our UHTCMCs will start coming into media prominence for 7th gen engines. By 2045-50, we will have 7th gen engines, ie, about 20-25 years from now, the standard for development of such engines, in parallel with other developed countries.

We are not gonna keep chasing forever, we are gonna catch up.
Yup. That's the plan👍
 
HAL Tejas Mk2's final push: Fighter on the cusp of first flight

In a defining moment for India's next-generation indigenous fighter programme, the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s Tejas Mk2, is entering a decisive phase, with critical ground testing and certification processes accelerating ahead of its maiden flight.

Developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency in partnership with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the aircraft is now preparing for taxi trials, one of the final milestones before first flight.

Current timelines indicate that the aircraft could take to the skies by mid-2026, marking a major step forward in India’s push for defence self-reliance.

Entering the final testing phase

The Tejas Mk2 programme has transitioned from design maturity to advanced ground validation. Engineers are currently focused on integration checks, system validation, and ensuring overall aircraft readiness. These include structural integrity assessments,avionics testing, and flight control validation.

Notably, the first prototype will fly in its primer paint, allowing teams to prioritise testing and iterative improvements over cosmetic readiness, an approach aimed at accelerating development timelines.

A key enabler in this phase is the Centre for Military Air worthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), which is expediting the First FlightClearance (FFC) process. The agency is evaluating critical parameters such as structural strength, safety compliance,avionics performance, and flight control systems

This faster certification cycle reflects improved coordination between regulators and developers, an area that has historically caused delays in Indian defence programmes.

Taxi trials

Before the aircraft can take off, it must successfully complete a series of taxi trials. These include low-speed taxi tests to assess steering, braking, and ground handling, followed by high-speed runs where the aircraft approaches take-off speeds without lifting off. These trials are crucial for validating aerodynamic behaviour and system responses under real-world conditions.

Successful completion will directly pave the way for the maiden flight.

Powering the Tejas Mk2 is the GE F414-INS6 engine, which delivers significantly higher thrust compared to the earlier F404 used in previous variants.

In a major development, India has secured 100% Transfer ofTechnology (ToT) for this engine, enabling domestic manufacturing by the end of the decade. This not only enhances the aircraft's performance but also strengthens India's aerospace manufacturing ecosystem and reduces long-term dependency on imports.

Production roadmap

Looking ahead, HAL has proposed initiating Limited Series Production (LSP) by 2029, subject to final approvals. An accelerated induction strategy is also under consideration, where a batch of pre-production aircraft would be delivered early to the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) for concurrent operational evaluation.

This approach could significantly compress the timeline between development and full-scale deployment critical for maintaining operational readiness.

As the Tejas Mk2 approaches its maiden flight, it stands as one of India’s most ambitious indigenous defence programmes. Beyond being a technological upgrade, it represents a shift toward faster execution, deeper industry-regulator collaboration, and greater self-reliance.

If timelines hold, the Mk2 will not only strengthen India's air combat capabilities but also redefine the trajectory of its aerospace ecosystem.
 
HAL Tejas Mk2's final push: Fighter on the cusp of first flight

In a defining moment for India's next-generation indigenous fighter programme, the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited’s Tejas Mk2, is entering a decisive phase, with critical ground testing and certification processes accelerating ahead of its maiden flight.

Developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency in partnership with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the aircraft is now preparing for taxi trials, one of the final milestones before first flight.

Current timelines indicate that the aircraft could take to the skies by mid-2026, marking a major step forward in India’s push for defence self-reliance.

Entering the final testing phase

The Tejas Mk2 programme has transitioned from design maturity to advanced ground validation. Engineers are currently focused on integration checks, system validation, and ensuring overall aircraft readiness. These include structural integrity assessments,avionics testing, and flight control validation.

Notably, the first prototype will fly in its primer paint, allowing teams to prioritise testing and iterative improvements over cosmetic readiness, an approach aimed at accelerating development timelines.

A key enabler in this phase is the Centre for Military Air worthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), which is expediting the First FlightClearance (FFC) process. The agency is evaluating critical parameters such as structural strength, safety compliance,avionics performance, and flight control systems

This faster certification cycle reflects improved coordination between regulators and developers, an area that has historically caused delays in Indian defence programmes.

Taxi trials

Before the aircraft can take off, it must successfully complete a series of taxi trials. These include low-speed taxi tests to assess steering, braking, and ground handling, followed by high-speed runs where the aircraft approaches take-off speeds without lifting off. These trials are crucial for validating aerodynamic behaviour and system responses under real-world conditions.

Successful completion will directly pave the way for the maiden flight.

Powering the Tejas Mk2 is the GE F414-INS6 engine, which delivers significantly higher thrust compared to the earlier F404 used in previous variants.

In a major development, India has secured 100% Transfer ofTechnology (ToT) for this engine, enabling domestic manufacturing by the end of the decade. This not only enhances the aircraft's performance but also strengthens India's aerospace manufacturing ecosystem and reduces long-term dependency on imports.

Production roadmap

Looking ahead, HAL has proposed initiating Limited Series Production (LSP) by 2029, subject to final approvals. An accelerated induction strategy is also under consideration, where a batch of pre-production aircraft would be delivered early to the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) for concurrent operational evaluation.

This approach could significantly compress the timeline between development and full-scale deployment critical for maintaining operational readiness.

As the Tejas Mk2 approaches its maiden flight, it stands as one of India’s most ambitious indigenous defence programmes. Beyond being a technological upgrade, it represents a shift toward faster execution, deeper industry-regulator collaboration, and greater self-reliance.

If timelines hold, the Mk2 will not only strengthen India's air combat capabilities but also redefine the trajectory of its aerospace ecosystem.
100% ToT for the GE414?? its 80%.........
 
I think it has been copied from the famous website. Although alpha defense is also saying something similar.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/2047272853851296251
Based on the conversations I am hopeful that this bird will fly soon. We may see prototype out before expected dates (yes there could be different expectations).P.S : Keep an eye on indo US trade talks

Also him
One Israeli LRU is arriving in May (as per their India partners). So I am hopeful, but want to post hawk eye meme 🫣
 
No, a guy that can't even back his claims with any credible source is not worth the effort.

Your a professional storyteller as @_Anonymous_ says.
Sometimes it sticks Sometimes a miss.

Okay, let's see.

In 2017, I predicted on PeeDF that CPEC will fail by 2021-22. And I even pointed out how exactly, starting with the power sector, and how the system is rigged to fail. I provided examples of the cost of production and the cost of building the plants and the transmission lines relative to ours. And by 2021-22, Pakistani news articles confirmed my prediction to a tee.

Similarly, I predicted in 2018 that once the S-400s are introduced, PAF will become entirely defensive and helpless, that they will be pushed back towards the Af-Pak axis. Happened exactly as I predicted in Sindoor. I had also predicted we will buy 5 more squadrons.

When the Pakistanis were pushing the narrative of buying every jet on the planet in response to the Rafale deal I had predicted that the JF-17 B3's gonna be trash and that the only options for PAF will be J-10C and J-31. All 3 claims confirmed.

Back in 2017, I had posted the exact configuration of the LCA Mk1A even before Mk1A and MWF were announced. I was insulted and banned by this guy called Oscar only for making that post. They couldn't handle it I guess.

All that just on PeeDF.

On Indian forums, I had predicted the exact number of jets the IAF and IN need, and it's happening exactly as per that. The IN's numbers once again came to doubt very recently on the forum, which I corrected back to what I had always claimed. Picdel had also claimed that I had claimed IN would need 150 Rafales, and I pointed out that those numbers have not changed, the bulk have just switched over to TEDBF instead. I had claimed instead that the 26 Rafales will jump up by 13 to 31 more.

The previous decade I had predicted that the HTT-40 will only be delivered well after 2025, that's happening. I also predicted ATAGS will take until 2028 for inductions, so that's happening in 2027. I had also pointed out that the main gun requirement will be met by something else via competition.

I had predicted the SLEP of IL-76 too. When the media was reporting IL-76 will be withdrawn by 2035, I had pointed out that a bunch of them will be upgraded and will continue until 2050, so that's happening. The same thing is now repeating with Vikramaditya.

Of course, I always knew we will get Rafales in large numbers, so that's practically undisputed, irrespective of multiple members claiming not more than 36 will be bought. I had predicted we will import 6th gen, that's happening too.

When Ignorants was complaining about our indigenous sub program and how it's gonna be very late, I had predicted that as soon as P-75I is signed, we will initiate P-76 contrary to his claim of starting it after P-75I is delivered. So that's happening. I had also claimed that SSNs will happen before SSKs. So that's happened too.

When Ka-226T began to die and the media was reporting the death of all light imported helicopters via official sources, I had pointed out that all three services will get imported helicopters apart from HAL's, and now that's happening.

I claimed we will get DEW by 2021 years before that for which Ignorants mocked me, and then we got confirmation that we had one such weapon to protect Trump when he came to India in 2020.

Operationally too, I had once claimed that Pak's subs are useless for second strike against South India due to the very short cycle between conventional and nuclear, less than 3 days, within our conditions, and the short range of Babur. And Op Sindoor proved that with Pak moving nukes right after the PAF got decimated.

Politically, I had predicted mass immigration of third worlders like Indians into the UK right after Brexit. Apparently, "no one" could predict this, analysts still claim. But I have made multiple posts about it even before Covid. @BMD dismissed it back then, and I told him to wait and watch.

I had predicted massive growth in the defense budgets of Europe too before Covid, that France's spending will be doubled. Even that's happening even though our European members had dismissed it back then.

I had also claimed before Covid that we will start seeing a massive rise in our capital budget from 2025 onwards, and that's begun too.

And these are only what I could remember off the top of my head.

So let's get this straight. How many analysts do you know who can make predictions in such a wide variety of topics and still get this many right? It's such a big deal to see someone getting just one thing right, never mind this many consistently back-to-back.

Sure, I got some misses. But I've got more hits than misses. And it's not like I keep changing my "stories" to make things fit. I claim something, I stick to it, and then there's a pretty good chance of it happening, rather than not.

@Tatvamasi once claimed I speak of future events like it's a fact. And Ignorants mocks my "2022" claims too, which have largely come true as well, irrespective of his insults. So here's a kick-a*s 2022 prediction where I spoke facts well before it happened.
Dec 3, 2022
P-75I: I'd say the contract will be signed anytime in 2026.

MRFA: If Rafale wins, a signature will be done within 6-12 months, well before mid-2027.
A more optimistic date for a Rafale victory should give us a signature in the second half of 2026.


Wait, what? It's like someone from MoD or PMO literally whispered it in my ears back in 2022.

How many people have you seen making such an accurate prediction? It's obvious my work speaks for itself at this point.

@Ankit Kumar
I had to bring up post 1041 prematurely, but it's happening as stated.
 
I'm really not in the mood to pee on professional story teller's parade especially since he's spent a lot of time in proving his credentials with some evidence for a change except to point out the old P D F was gutted more than 2 years ago. Make out of that whatever you want to .

While there are a few members here who were also present there , doubt if there's anybody who'd corroborate professional story teller's alibi.

I first heard of 100 new FAs for IN Naval.Aviation from @vstol Jockey on I D F including shore based flying which he rightly claimed the IAF strenuously objected to but which the IN was pursuing nevertheless. In any case that forum went defunct a long while back too .

26 Rafales will jump by 13 to 31 more ? If anyone can explain this mathematical equation he shall earn my gratitude .

Yup he did predict that after he lost his chaddies claiming there's no way the HTT-40 would be inducted over the Pilatus. Nobody contested that claim because for one he spent months ( was almost 6 months IIRC ) duelling everyone around that the HTT 40 would not be inducted only the Pilatus would.

Suddenly one fine day a story about corruption broke out regarding the procurement of Pilatus & he immediately changed his tune to the procurement schedule of the HTT 40. By that time people lost their interest ( & energy ) combatting his silly arguments online.

Those morbidly curious can check out the sequence of events & the veracity of what we both put out on the said thread. Let me know if interested & I will guide you to where the fracas began. Incidentally I didn't play any part in it . Those who did either retired from the forum or make rare appearances here . That's how much they aged in those 6 months.

The ATAGS would always be ordered . I mean who here claimed it won't be. The issue was always whether it would be ordered in the qtys required or we'd get to see another Arjun like repeat. So I don't know what's professional story teller talking about.

He's done the same earlier in the post with the failure of the CPEC. He wasn't the only Indian to claim that . Frankly I don't even recall reading him on P D F . Multiple Indian members did so .

There were a lot of articles on the issue by Indian & international experts including a few Paxtani authors arguing the same which these members used to underline their arguments.

But if he wants to claim sole credit for it who am I to deny the kid his lollipop ?

Can't say about the others but personally speaking I've witnessed professional story teller like @Lolwa in the present compile lists frequently 8-10 years ago .

Some 300 Rafales & 300 FGFA were predicted. More than the IAF & the MoD , even more than the Russians , professional story teller was in shock when we exited the PAKFA / FGFA program . It took him quite some time to recover his moorings IIRC.

And no , that he seems unhinged in the present has nothing to do with that incident. He's always been like this although his pathology has gotten worse as he ages.

Frankly I don't recall complaining about the Project 76 at all. In any case have we launched the program ?

No clue about the rest of his claims but wasn't the SSN predicated on us developing the ~ 200 MW Thermal N reactor ? Once again what in that prediction is out of the world is something only he can answer .

Oh I've no clue if professional story teller predicted all 3 services would be getting imported hptrs if Ka-226T didn't make it & as of the present they've not gotten it .

So one swallow does make a summer. @DEW to protect Trump in 2020. I never knew professional story teller laid that much stock in my validation.

Once again I've no idea what professional story teller claimed about PN submarines . Nothing he's claimed appears out of the ordinary from what I've read on forums from other members or even experts from TTs or other defence aficionados on X or other SM mostly ex B R F much before PST made his views on the topic known

Lowy Institute certainly missed a trick when they didn't employ PST as a think tank although is this really what's being claimed as some earth shattering revelation ?

I mean if PST was to claim the flooding of little britain with illegal immigrants from Muslim countries predominantly I would take it as a revelation but this ?

As far as Paddy goes , he can't tell his front from his back when he's sober. I wouldn't bring him up to back up any of my alibis. He's the kind who'd definitely be taken apart by the prosecution & puncture my case.

So EU countries raising their defence budget gas nothing to do with the issues they're having with the US especially Trump & the Ukraine war ?! Hmm

That was being claimed since before 2022. There was Avi Raina who predicted Paxtan would come apart in June (?) 2022 on X & in here PST was claiming a golden year for procurement in 2022 with enhanced budgets since 2018 IIRC.

Avi Raina subsequently absconded & PST never went anywhere to begin with except change the year to 2025 then immediately to 2028 & later IIRC to 2032.

Thank God he brought up only those he remembered top of his mind. I thought I would be up for the rest of the night.

I've always maintained Rand Corporation's loss is Strat Front's gain or is the other way around ? The former don't know on what they're missing on especially the entertainment quotient particularly if they're easily entertained.

This confession of more hits than misses is something you'd never see even 3 years ago irrespective how true it is which it isn't but the confession matters to those who've been suffering him from ages .

And no he doesn't shift goal posts at all ! Absolutely not !! They shift on their own.

I'd personally like to see evidence of at least a dozen such predictions for 2022 come true . Even half a dozen would suffice.

Congratulations ! I will not give in to attempts at saying even a stopped watch is correct twice a day. No I will not .

Congratulations once again.

Yup the PMO's loss is now Strat Front's gain. Evidently they've more than their share of jokers there whereas all we have is Hydrocele & ....

Aww , he's gotten e motional. Breaks my heart . Look what you did Haridwar wale bhaiya ? @babablacksheep

Shame on you for making a grown up man cry ! I wasn't referring to him but myself.

Someone give him a trophy for the love of God . Or an ice cream .Hell even a cookie will do at this point.

 
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