Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[thinkingcap81]

"According to the sources", take it with bottle of salt...

They are simply saying, either accept current border postions or keep it in limbo, it suits them either way until any of the two parties commit to next round of harakiri.

A final statement of sorts - China has bluntly said take it or leave it.

Now that the army has been forced to vacate it's vantage points, there's pretty much nothing else for us to do. Our diplomacy has failed in the face of overwhelming Chinese power across all spectrums. War is not an option for some more years till we're in a better position.

All that we can do for now is to accept the loss of territory that we claim as ours and prevent a similar thing from happening again.

Talking rubbish like 'no loss of territory' is a failure from Modi and the bureaucrats.

 

[Cole_phelps]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447541836935876610

"not in line with the real situation or its strength" means India should always negotiate from position of weakness.

 

[screambowl]

Talking rubbish like 'no loss of territory' is a failure from Modi and the bureaucrats.

That Jaishanker has ruined every thing. Now only one option left, get back some territory from POK. And keep this Mallushanker away from PMO. Now he can retire and come on talk shows write books.

 

[zapper]

Otherwise CCP wouldn't have leaked those images. It's hilarious how easily two photos of a known skirmish easily demoralise everyone. Even on the other forum they are having a meltdown. It's well known a lot of our soldiers were injured in the skirmish how it is shocking everyone is really perplexing

We did injure em and they might as well be faking deaths. BS reasons like we've been outnumbered or ambushed doesn't matter in this regard since they clearly played us and we ended up vacating strategic gains like the Kailash range while they're still sitting in places they occupied or those where we had patrolling rights before

Secondly, what the world sees is those 4 photos of battered Indian troops who clearly look like POWs based on which they start perceiving us and I highly doubt our troops actually made any gains on the ground given our appeasement policy and not to provoke the dragon. Yesterday's talks failed as well and it looks like we lost both on a strategic standpoint and psyops as well

 

[zapper]

That Jaishanker has ruined every thing. Now only one option left, get back some territory from POK. And keep this Mallushanker away from PMO. Now he can retire and come on talk shows write books.

PoK is heavily militarized with troops on both sides armed to the fullest mirroring each other's deployments...any move to occupy territory will lead to a full fledged war. I don't think we're currently prepared for that either

 

[Lolwa]

We did injure em and they might as well be faking deaths. BS reasons like we've been outnumbered or ambushed doesn't matter in this regard since they clearly played us and we ended up vacating strategic gains like the Kailash range while they're still sitting in places they occupied or those where we had patrolling rights before

Secondly, what the world sees is those 4 photos of battered Indian troops who clearly look like POWs based on which they start perceiving us and I highly doubt our troops actually made any gains on the ground given our appeasement policy and not to provoke the dragon. Yesterday's talks failed as well and it looks like we lost both on a strategic standpoint and psyops as well

You are talking of completely different locations and scenarios.

Also stop caring about what mlecchas think.

 

[screambowl]

PoK is heavily militarized with troops on both sides armed to the fullest mirroring each other's deployments...any move to occupy territory will lead to a full fledged war. I don't think we're currently prepared for that either

Every one in the world knows the side India favours no opposition can stand in front of that allaince Because India has man power. In a nutshell I tell you that Pakistan is nothing, India if opens up it's actual strength it can absorb every thing upto Iran. India remains silent and mosquitoes shout due to that.

 

[randomradio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447426737818816517

China is trying to drive home the narrative that India is being aggressive in order to make ground for its offensive against us.
But the timing feels bit off with snow fall starting in the forward areas and the winter will be on, within next few days.

There's still time until Nov end.

If they begin an offensive at the waning weeks of fall and end at the beginning of winter, then our counterattack can only happen in the summer. They probably plan on using the brief lull to avoid a larger conflict. It will also give the Chinese enough time to dig in.

 

[zapper]

Every one in the world knows the side India favours no opposition can stand in front of that allaince Because India has man power. In a nutshell I tell you that Pakistan is nothing, India if opens up it's actual strength it can absorb every thing upto Iran. India remains silent and mosquitoes shout due to that.

They'd resort to nukes the moment the Lahore falls...let alone gobbling upto Iran. All of Pakistanis elites reside in punjab and that's what matters the most. Nevertheless, our govt neither has the balls to go on the offensive nor the willingness to retaliate or cause disproportionate damage conventionally or unconventionally because foreign policy has always been one of our major shortcoming

 

[Defc0n]

There's still time until Nov end.

If they begin an offensive at the waning weeks of fall and end at the beginning of winter, then our counterattack can only happen in the summer. They probably plan on using the brief lull to avoid a larger conflict. It will also give the Chinese enough time to dig in.

Thing is, if we can come to this conclusion, so can our Army top brass. I am sure preventive actions will take place in order to thwart any such ops from the Chinese side.
One thing that I am circumspect about is, given how GoI is hell bent on "not offending" China, it should not force our forces to fight with a hand tied to the back.

Now moving to the next problem,
from the current posture of China, it is evident that it will not disengage. So in order for them to come back to the discussion table, we have to do something that will jeopardize their forces like how we had captured higher ridges of Kailash. I am not clear on the positional situation of Chinese army now, so I am also not sure on what we can do to put the pressure back on them.

 

[screambowl]

They'd resort to nukes the moment the Lahore falls...

Negative. That will not happen.

All of Pakistanis elites reside in punjab and that's what matters the most. Nevertheless, our govt neither has the balls to go on the offensive nor the willingness to retaliate or cause disproportionate damage conventionally or unconventionally because foreign policy has always been one of our major shortcoming

Problem is not Pakistan or China , the problem is within India, there are people who will sabotage India's militry might for their cosy life. Nothing else, as you correctly said.

 

[randomradio]

They'd resort to nukes the moment the Lahore falls...let alone gobbling upto Iran. All of Pakistanis elites reside in punjab and that's what matters the most. Nevertheless, our govt neither has the balls to go on the offensive nor the willingness to retaliate or cause disproportionate damage conventionally or unconventionally because foreign policy has always been one of our major shortcoming

There are many reasons for not going to war. But the main reason is we currently enjoy the status quo we have with Pakistan. Pakistan's economy is in a deep mess, its population growth is well past the danger mark, the army's political power inside Pak has been on the wane as it's being militarily challenged in all problem areas making it a divided country, major terrorist attacks on India have ceased and the world is no longer listening to their lies which has isolated them on the global arena. The only thing more damaging than this to Pakistan is an all-out war, but that would be damaging to us as well. So what's happening now is the best we can achieve with the least expenditure.

Right now, we are in the middle of regorganising the army and setting up threater commands, which is expected to be completed only in 2024. So it's not in our best interests to go to war over the next few years either.

 

[randomradio]

Thing is, if we can come to this conclusion, so can our Army top brass. I am sure preventive actions will take place in order to thwart any such ops from the Chinese side.
One thing that I am circumspect about is, given how GoI is hell bent on "not offending" China, it should not force our forces to fight with a hand tied to the back.

I don't think the govt is on the backfoot militarily. We have a very strong presence where we need to be or if the Chinese had already planned to attack beforehand, they would have pushed into India last year itself. Our civilian infrastructure is our weak point. For example, it's likely that our power infrastructure is not adequately prepared to deal with cyber attacks. We may be facing the same issue with our financial system as well. We have no idea what has been happening at the cyber front ever since last year. There's also the question of whether we can commit to cyber offensives of our own of the same scale and capacity.

Now moving to the next problem,

from the current posture of China, it is evident that it will not disengage. So in order for them to come back to the discussion table, we have to do something that will jeopardize their forces like how we had captured higher ridges of Kailash. I am not clear on the positional situation of Chinese army now, so I am also not sure on what we can do to put the pressure back on them.

Talks will not solve this problem. Pretty much our entire border with China will eventually convert into the LoC.

 

[Defc0n]

I don't think the govt is on the backfoot militarily. We have a very strong presence where we need to be or if the Chinese had already planned to attack beforehand, they would have pushed into India last year itself. Our civilian infrastructure is our weak point. For example, it's likely that our power infrastructure is not adequately prepared to deal with cyber attacks. We may be facing the same issue with our financial system as well. We have no idea what has been happening at the cyber front ever since last year. There's also the question of whether we can commit to cyber offensives of our own of the same scale and capacity.



Talks will not solve this problem. Pretty much our entire border with China will eventually convert into the LoC.

In the long run, that kind of plays out in China's favour. The financial issues which you pointed out hold true for this as well. The cost that India needs to incur to maintain troops and machinery at that altitude is huge. When put in perspective, it will be quite a botheration for us if compared to China. For our sake, I feel the lesser this drags on, the better it is. LOC-isation of LAC won't be a pretty picture for us I feel.

 

[randomradio]

In the long run, that kind of plays out in China's favour. The financial issues which you pointed out hold true for this as well. The cost that India needs to incur to maintain troops and machinery at that altitude is huge. When put in perspective, it will be quite a botheration for us if compared to China. For our sake, I feel the lesser this drags on, the better it is. LOC-isation of LAC won't be a pretty picture for us I feel.

Money needed for modernisation will have to be diverted towards manning the border instead. What used to be manned by a brigade is now manned by a division. That's a 3x expenditure by default. This does not count all the hard hitting equipement that have been moved to the front, and requires a lot of money to maintain, fighter jets, SAMs etc. Then there's the massive cost of infrastructure needed for all of this to work. Money that could have helped raise a whole new mountain strike corps or modernise our entire Northern Command infantry.

And, if the LAC becomes hot, like the LoC is today, then that creates a whole new financial pressure. We are simply far too poor today to engage China in anything beyond fisticuffs.

The Chinese have definitely played this well. They are using Taiwan to divert the world's attention away from the LAC, while putting a lot of financial pressure on us by both forcing us to match their deployment while engaging in cyberattacks and espionage in our civilian sector. We seem to be the first on China's hit list. Not to mention, they need to test their weapons and training before they can fight the US.

 

[SrNair]

Money needed for modernisation will have to be diverted towards manning the border instead. What used to be manned by a brigade is now manned by a division. That's a 3x expenditure by default. This does not count all the hard hitting equipement that have been moved to the front, and requires a lot of money to maintain, fighter jets, SAMs etc. Then there's the massive cost of infrastructure needed for all of this to work. Money that could have helped raise a whole new mountain strike corps or modernise our entire Northern Command infantry.

And, if the LAC becomes hot, like the LoC is today, then that creates a whole new financial pressure. We are simply far too poor today to engage China in anything beyond fisticuffs.

The Chinese have definitely played this well. They are using Taiwan to divert the world's attention away from the LAC, while putting a lot of financial pressure on us by both forcing us to match their deployment while engaging in cyberattacks and espionage in our civilian sector. We seem to be the first on China's hit list. Not to mention, they need to test their weapons and training before they can fight the US.

Wrong.Chinese can play but not that much.Because they knows unlike Taiwan we have nuclear weapons.In worst case scenario they knows we can level their eastern seaboard.
In Taiwan case they want to do a Crimea.
And whether it will work or not remains to be seen.
In our case , now its the time for control, knows the weak point and convert the situation in border for our advantage.
Under any circumstances India must avoid a war .Focus on economy.
Improvise and gets strength..

 

[screambowl]

Under any circumstances India must avoid a war .Focus on economy.

sorry, but people from Himachal Uttarakhand Ladakh North East can't focus on economy when death is sitting up there on hills. It's easily said than done. It hardly affects people in Kerala or Tamil Nadu its not a border state and but those people up there in hills are facing the PLA! And that another version of Kirshna Menon = S Jaishanker must realize this soon it will be better for his career before he gets the bloat.

1962 you focused on economy people of Ladakh lost their land Uttarakhand lost Mansarovar kailash. We need Aksai Chin and Mansarovar back for better tourism to focus on economy.
there are plenty of water resources and it will add to our economy!

 

[randomradio]

Wrong.Chinese can play but not that much.Because they knows unlike Taiwan we have nuclear weapons.In worst case scenario they knows we can level their eastern seaboard.
In Taiwan case they want to do a Crimea.
And whether it will work or not remains to be seen.
In our case , now its the time for control, knows the weak point and convert the situation in border for our advantage.
Under any circumstances India must avoid a war .Focus on economy.
Improvise and gets strength..

Taiwan has maintained the ability to make nukes since decades. They are considered a threshold nuclear weapons state. So they can make a nuke whenever they want to.

China is not considered an existential threat to India. Any border war will remain conventional.

 

[jetray]

In the long run, that kind of plays out in China's favour. The financial issues which you pointed out hold true for this as well. The cost that India needs to incur to maintain troops and machinery at that altitude is huge. When put in perspective, it will be quite a botheration for us if compared to China. For our sake, I feel the lesser this drags on, the better it is. LOC-isation of LAC won't be a pretty picture for us I feel.

problem with India is that we are playing to china's strength not their weakness. One of the reasons why pakistan resorts to terrorism is the enormous cost advantage. Instead of trying to match china boot for boot ,bullet for bullet we need to find other ways to tie them down and raise the cost of confrontation. The existing idea of arming ourselves to teeth wont simply work with china.

The political/govt leadership should step up the game and rise up to the occasion, conventional thinking wont take us too far. There are countries like israel which are vastly outnumbered but still hold out with better training, technology and by being pro-actively tackling the enemy before they can cause problems. Govt should stop this stupidity of mud wrestling with opposition which is creating a lot of chaos and focus the bureaucracy to tackle threat.

First we need to get off the china's import list and free our economy. We do need to accept the fact that there certainly will be unavoidable damage & loss when things go south. china is getting emboldened day by day bcos they know we wont fight them they are more or less banking on our fear rather than their strength. India should get off that predictable behavior , china does the same they blow hot & cold all the time.

 

[jetray]

sorry, but people from Himachal Uttarakhand Ladakh North East can't focus on economy when death is sitting up there on hills. It's easily said than done. It hardly affects people in Kerala or Tamil Nadu its not a border state and but those people up there in hills are facing the PLA! And that another version of Kirshna Menon = S Jaishanker must realize this soon it will be better for his career before he gets the bloat.

1962 you focused on economy people of Ladakh lost their land Uttarakhand lost Mansarovar kailash. We need Aksai Chin and Mansarovar back for better tourism to focus on economy.
there are plenty of water resources and it will add to our economy!

dude , seriously stop thinking like a juvenile. I am not a big fan of south block and their crawling manners. You do understand that they are under PMO and their guidance. Its not they are independent and can do whatever they want. They will only parrot what is conveyed to them by PMO. We certainly can replace them with any one we want but it wont change anything.

You should remember that talks are being held at military level and commanders need to send that message. That will only happen when the govt stands up and backs them. china will deal with those who have power and ppl who have power should step up instead of wringing their hands aimlessly.