Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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Flight forbidden for japanese F-35 :
Tokyo, Dec. 9 (Jiji Press)--A computer system glitch has been found in an F-35A state-of-the-art stealth fighter of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force that made an emergency landing on Wednesday, Gen. Shunji Izutsu, ASDF chief of staff, said Thursday.
The ASDF will fix the faulty parts of the system of the aircraft, which made an emergency landing at Hakodate Airport in the northernmost Japan prefecture of Hokkaido at 12:18 p.m. on Wednesday (3:18 a.m. GMT), and inspect all F-35As in its fleet.
It will suspend the scheduled flights of F-35As for the time being, conduct safety checks and train pilots, Izutsu told a news conference.
According to the Defense Ministry, a problem occurred with the fuselage of the F-35A, which belongs to the ASDF's Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan, around 11:58 a.m. on Wednesday during a training flight over the Sea of Japan.
The computer system glitch was found in an inspection led by Misawa base technicians. A similar malfunction hit an F-35A in the past, according to the ASDF.
(2021/12/09-20:33)
For recall :
Tokyo, Dec. 8 (Jiji Press)--An F-35A state-of-the-art stealth fighter of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force made an emergency landing at Hakodate Airport in the northernmost Japan prefecture of Hokkaido around 12:20 p.m. Wednesday (3:20 a.m. GMT).
The ASDF is looking into details of the incident, believing that something wrong happened with the body of the fighter during a training flight. The F-35A belongs to the ASDF's Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan.
According to the ASDF, the F-35A left the Misawa base around 11:15 a.m. The fighter made the emergency landing after its body suffered some sort of problem while the plane was flying over the Sea of Japan, at a point some 190 kilometers west of the base, around 11:58 a.m.
Another aircraft flying in formation with the F-35A also landed at Hakodate Airport, shortly before 1 p.m. No injuries have been confirmed among the pilots of the planes or others.
Hakodate Airport temporarily closed its runway due to the F-35A emergency landing, according to the office of the airport. The runway was reopened for use shortly after 12:30 p.m., but the departure of one flight was delayed for about 30 minutes.
(2021/12/08-17:40)
Computer Glitch Causes ASDF Jet's Emergency Landing
Tokyo, Dec. 9 (Jiji Press)--A computer system glitch has been found in an F-35A state-of-the-art stealth fighter of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force that made an emergency landing on Wednesday, Gen. Shunji Izutsu, ASDF chief of staff, said Thursday.
The ASDF will fix the faulty parts of the system of the aircraft, which made an emergency landing at Hakodate Airport in the northernmost Japan prefecture of Hokkaido at 12:18 p.m. on Wednesday (3:18 a.m. GMT), and inspect all F-35As in its fleet.
It will suspend the scheduled flights of F-35As for the time being, conduct safety checks and train pilots, Izutsu told a news conference.
According to the Defense Ministry, a problem occurred with the fuselage of the F-35A, which belongs to the ASDF's Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan, around 11:58 a.m. on Wednesday during a training flight over the Sea of Japan.
The computer system glitch was found in an inspection led by Misawa base technicians. A similar malfunction hit an F-35A in the past, according to the ASDF.
(2021/12/09-20:33)
For recall :
(Update) ASDF F-35A Fighter Makes Emergency Landing at Hakodate Airport
Tokyo, Dec. 8 (Jiji Press)--An F-35A state-of-the-art stealth fighter of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force made an emergency landing at Hakodate Airport in the northernmost Japan prefecture of Hokkaido around 12:20 p.m. Wednesday (3:20 a.m. GMT).
The ASDF is looking into details of the incident, believing that something wrong happened with the body of the fighter during a training flight. The F-35A belongs to the ASDF's Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan.
According to the ASDF, the F-35A left the Misawa base around 11:15 a.m. The fighter made the emergency landing after its body suffered some sort of problem while the plane was flying over the Sea of Japan, at a point some 190 kilometers west of the base, around 11:58 a.m.
Another aircraft flying in formation with the F-35A also landed at Hakodate Airport, shortly before 1 p.m. No injuries have been confirmed among the pilots of the planes or others.
Hakodate Airport temporarily closed its runway due to the F-35A emergency landing, according to the office of the airport. The runway was reopened for use shortly after 12:30 p.m., but the departure of one flight was delayed for about 30 minutes.
(2021/12/08-17:40)
The Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II is Finland’s next multi-role fighter.
Air Force10.12.2021 14.37
The Government of Finland has 10 December 2021 authorised the Finnish Defence Forces Logistics Command to sign a procurement contract with the Government of the United States on Finland’s next multi-role fighter. The fighter replacing the Hornet fleet’s capability is the Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II.
The procurement contains 64 F-35A Block 4 multi-role fighters, substantial and versatile wea-ponry tailored for the operating circumstances, required training and sustainment solutions, other related systems as well as sustainment and maintenance services until the end of 2030.
In the HX Fighter Programme evaluation of the tenderers’ offers, the F-35 fulfilled the security of supply, industrial participation and affordability requirements of the decision-making areas. In the military capability assessment, the F-35 comprehensive system was the best. The F-35 combat, reconnaissance and survival capabilities were the best suited of the HX candidates.
The F-35 operating and sustainment costs fit the allocated cost frame, and the aircraft devel-opment during the life cycle will be feasible with the normal resources of the Finnish Defence Forces. Within the procurement process, several essential security of supply requirements and significant industrial participation have been agreed upon. The essential security of supply re-quirements relate specifically to independent ability to operate in exceptional circumstances.
The F-35 programme is multinational and its user community large. The system is in service in many European nations including Norway and Denmark.
The current Hornet fleet will be phased out as planned from the year 2025. The first Finnish F-35 fighters will begin service with the Finnish Air Force in 2025 as part of the training of Finn-ish personnel in the United States. The first F-35s will be delivered to Finland in 2026. In Fin-land the F-35 system will replace the Hornet fleet in the fighter wings between 2028 and 2030.
HX Programme Bidding Competition
The HX programme replacing the Hornet capability was launched in 2015 by the decision of the Minister of Defence and subsequent Request for Information (RFI) phase. The HX bidding competition began in 2018 with the initial Requests for Quotation (RFQ) sent to the govern-ments of France, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States. The aim of the competi-tive bidding was to build with each tenderer a comprehensive solution fulfilling the require-ments and producing the best possible capability to replace the Hornet fleet for the Finnish de-fence system in the operational environment of the 2030s as well as within the HX system’s lifespan.The offered solutions in the HX programme were set up around the following fighter aircraft systems: Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-35 and Saab Gripen.
Evaluation of Offers
The Defence Forces Logistics Command received the final and binding offers from all five HX tenderers by the end of April 2021 deadline. The offers were assessed in accordance with the HX Request for Quotation, decision-making model and Evaluation Handbook to reach the pro-curement proposal.The tendering was based on four decision-making areas: Military Capability, Security of Sup-ply, Industrial Participation and Affordability. When a tenderer passed the Security of Supply, Industrial Participation and Affordability considerations, it proceeded to the final phase of the Military Capability evaluation in which the offered solutions were placed in order.
The Defence Forces evaluated the offered comprehensive solutions’ capability in three phas-es based on performance demonstrated in testing events. In the final phase, the military capa-bility effectiveness of each candidate’s HX system was evaluated via a thorough and long-run war game supported by simulation. The Defence Forces’ proposal for the system to be selected was based on the results of the war games and estimated future development potential.
Success of F-35 System
In the HX bidding competition, the F-35 passed the security of supply, industrial participation and affordability decision-making areas. The F-35 solution achieved the highest operational effectiveness and future growth potential in the capability assessment.Security of Supply
The F-35 solution fulfils the national security of supply requirements of Finland. The sustain-ment of the system is based on the F-35 global sustainment solution tailored to meet the do-mestic security of supply requirements. The critical maintenance capacity will be created in the Defence Forces and domestic industrial organisations. The solution encompasses the mainte-nance capabilities to be built in Finland as well as spare components and replaceable assem-blies for exceptional circumstances that are under the sole national control of Finland as well as participation in the multinational maintenance network.Affordability
The F-35 solution fitted to the allocated funding frame was the most cost-effective. The F-35 had the lowest procurement cost when considering all aspects of the offer. The operating and sustainment costs of the system will fall below the 254 million euro yearly budget. F-35 opera-tions and lifespan development will be feasible with the Defence Forces’ resources.No offer was significantly less expensive than others in operating and sustainment costs.
Industrial Participation
The F-35 industrial participation offer met the requirements in quality and content. The main focus of the offered industrial participation is in direct industrial cooperation that will create significant independent maintenance capabilities. The industrial participation solution will de-velop credible knowhow in the domestic industry from the security of supply perspective and become significant in the national economy.The key industrial participation projects include large-scale production of the F-35 front fuse-lage in Finland also for other users, production of structural components as well as equipment testing and maintenance capability. In addition, Finland has been offered an engine final as-sembly project for the Air Force aircraft.
The industrial participation’s domestic employment impact will be 4500 and indirect impact 1500 person-workyears.
The industrial participation contract will be signed by the Ministry of Defence as well as Lock-heed Martin and the engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney.
Military Capability
The F-35 system’s capability was best suited for the Finnish operating environment and HX requirements. The comprehensive system and aircraft’s capabilities in combat, reconnaissance and survival are unsurpassed. The F-35 came first in the assessment or shared the top score in all mission areas and achieved the highest total score. The proposed F-35 package will meet the defined tasks with sufficient efficacy in respect to the requirements of the future operating environment. The quantity of aircraft and weaponry included in the quotation had an impact in the result. The Finnish F-35 fleet can achieve operational capability within the scheduled timeframe.The F-35 solution will produce a significant addition to the entire defence system and enhance preventive capability of defence. The F-35A is capable of initiating action in counter-air opera-tions as well as generating and sharing the necessary situational awareness and target data, enabling the F-35 to best support land and maritime operations. The F-35 multi-domain effec-tiveness across air, land and sea received the highest rating in the assessment. The stealth and other unique features, such as sensors and networks, support the F-35’s survival in com-bat. The F-35 multi-role fighter has the highest internal fuel capacity and all sensors incorpo-rated negating the need for an external targeting system or fuel tank.
The F-35 system’s technological solution is sustainable and its future growth potential the best of the offered solutions. The development has been guaranteed for the entire life cycle until the 2060s.
Procurement Package
The procurement object is 64 F-35A multi-role fighters in the newest, Block 4 -configuration. The procurement encompasses multi-role fighter weaponry. The offered F-35 package in-cludes the following weapon types: AMRAAM, Sidewinder, SDB I and II, JDAM-family weapon-ry, JSM and JASSM-ER. The weaponry is to be procured within the programme funding avail-ability by the end of the year 2035. The weapons package will be optimised during the pro-curement process, taking into account availability of the newest weapon types and changes in the operating environment. With optimised weapons procurement, the system’s capability will be maximised in the Finnish operating environment and the F-35 system’s life-cycle guaran-teed for the longest feasible time.A remarkable number of additional products and services to be acquired concurrently are relat-ed to the procurement of the fighter system and its use. These comprise the sustainment sys-tem including test equipment, tools, replaceable assembly and spare part services, as well as information systems, training systems and services, mission support systems and related ser-vices as well as the US Government Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procurement process related administrative services to be used. The procurement package also includes the fleet sustain-ment costs for the years 2025-2030.
Procurement Funding
The funding for the HX programme totals 10 billion euros. The Parliament has granted the fighter programme a procurement authorisation of 9.4 billion euro for the acquisition of the Hornet replacement system and 579 million euros of a five-year transferable allocation. The transferable allocation is to ensure that the procured entity will be obtained into service as part of the Finnish defence system. Twenty-one million euros have thus far been spent in prepar-ing for the procurement.Procurement Costs
The acquisition equals approximately 8.378 billion euros. The cost of multi-role fighters is 4.703 billion euros and air-to-air missiles AMRAAM and Sidewinder 754,6 million euros. Ser-vice equipment, spare and exchange parts, training and sustainment solutions, other related systems as well as sustainment and maintenance services until the end of 2030 cost 2,920 bil-lion euros.Operational facilities, aircraft hangars and storages as well as runway structures and infrastructure for the procured system will be constructed in Finland. This is based on national and international safety and security requirements. Construction costs, costs of industrial participation, personnel costs and other project costs amount to 777 million euros.
Additionally 823,8 million euros is reserved for the final optimised weapons package and to control future contract amendments. Part of the weaponry will be obtained at a later date as per the aircraft delivery schedule.
HX Programme Implementation
The defence system research in the Defence Forces strategic planning has concluded that multi-role fighters have a key role and responsibility in the defence system of the 2030s’ operating environment. The HX programme was established to find a replacement for the current multirole fighters and since 2015 it has been working to obtain the best HX solution for Finland.In various phases of the HX programme, preparation and evaluation work has involved the best national and international expertise of 100-200 personnel with wide skills profiles.
The Defence Command oversees the progress and quality control of the development pro-gramme projects. The HX procurement process’ quality has been assured with an internal and external quality verification. The external quality verification provider was Deloitte Inc. The task of the external quality verification was to gain confirmation for the impartial, systematical and traceable procurement process from an independent provider outside defence administration. Moreover, the National Audit Office of Finland has assessed the programme in accordance with its auditing plan and presented the necessary recommendations.
Congratulations !!
Informative thread.
64 aircraft, weaponry suitable for Finnish scenario, all gate checks passed, budget within framework (including annual costs below set limit of 254 MEUR). https://t.co/VnNtYYUKdU
Front fuselage assembly in Finland for Finnish and global fleet.
MoD stresses that all four countries remain valued and important partners, and close cooperation will continue with all in the field of foreign and national security policy. #FISE
Block 4 as delivery standard. https://t.co/Wz3dLtXSG2
Importance of mission sets in evaluation:
Air superiority 30%
Air to ground/support of ground forces 20%
Support of naval forces 10%
Long-range fires/interdiction 20%
ISR 20%
Note importance placed on long-range precision strike.
MoD don't see this as altering Finland's defence and foreign policy choices, but instead shows continuity and a resolve to take care of our own defence.
#Rafale and #Eurofighter did not pass gate checks! No comment on ranking in evaluation between the other three, besides the fact that F-35 was a "clear" winner.
#Sidekick coming, i.e. making it possible to fly with six AIM-120 #AMRAAM internally. Norwegian brake chute also included.
"Large number of weapons" included in offer played an important role.
LJDAM in 1,000 and 250 kg versions, SDB I/II, JSM, and JASSM-ER included.
Aircraft scored highest or shared highest in all mission sets.
No "major difference" in annual operating cost between bids. Notes that in particular Swiss and Dutch numbers aren't comparable with Finnish due to major differences in calculation principles.
Independent engine maintenance capability coming.
All current bases (including road bases) can take F-35A in all conditions, two main operating bases as currently in use will continue.
The cost of block 4 in Europe FMS, according to the Finns is US$83.125 m each.
The air force chief: "The F-35 was consistently good in all the tasks that Finland requires of it. "The technological lead was clear and dizzying"
So beyond all the hype, it’s clear that a Fourth gen non stealth fighter has no chance against a Fifth gen LO fighter.
Clearly it’s not that unexpected.
I think we in India now should look seriously to counter the upcoming upgraded J20 and J35.
J35 can be tackled by AMCA(possibly) and for J20, we need some novel solution.
Does this mean the debate over which is the better fighter aircraft has ended? Does the French contingent here concede F-35 is superior to the Rafale? @Picdelamirand-oil ; @Bon Plan
In a way yes, because there are not many explanations:
- either the F-35 is superior to the Rafale,
- or the Europeans don't like the French very much
- or both
We'll just sell where we can in the rest of the world, we don't need to sell 3000 planes to make the programme profitable anyway.
I think with the UAE order Dassault has notched up in excess of 200 fighters as orders from foreign clients plus a few more orders in the pipeline viz Qatar , Egypt , India & a few more under negotiations viz Indonesia , etc.
It's not bad at all considering the amount of aircraft sold to foreign clients in case of both the Gripen & Eurofighter .
Don't you agree Paddy ? Unless you insist the JSF wouldn't be possible without British collaboration , hence it's also a British fighter , more so since the Eurofighter has proved to a bit of a lemon compared to the Rafale or even the Gripen. Pathetic state of the British aerospace industry , I tell you Paddy. @BMD
It was clear from day one but many (majority Indians ourselves) were too biased to see the informative posts made by minority opinion posters.
This line makes no sense. You are projecting, since, majority of the indians on this forum are passive viewers and rarely post. Just like, this is the first time I have posted on this thread, since:
1. F-22, F-35 have nothing to do with India
2. This thread easily becomes a cesspit of rafale fanboys vs f-35 fanboys.
So, naturally people stay away from the mudslinging going on.
Also, majority of the people(indians & non-indians) understand 2 basic facts:
1. A 4+ gen fighter, no matter, even if gold plated will never be able to compete with a proper 5th gen aircraft.
2. Defence deals like this will always include politics, and US has more clout than France and outspends them by a large margin due to larger economy. Simple.
People who usually indulge in these fanboys vs fanboys fights have too much free time. And The Indians who were on the side of Rafale were doing so just because India bought rafale and they wanted to feel validated(basically coping). Had India bought F-35, they would be cheering for that plane.
Regardless, this thread does have a lot of useful information but it was pretty clear that f-35 was gonna win. Most of the countries that bought rafale did so because they couldn't buy f-35 or wanted to be free of US pressure and nonsense that comes with it. Rafale users bought that plane because of reasons other than merit of plane itself, which is fine.
Congrats to finns for their shiny new f-35s.
There are many valid reasons to choose the American jet. A lot of them are even independent of the aircraft type in question:
- America's domestic market is at least 10 times larger than France's. So there's massive economies of scale to be had.
- This, crucially, extends not just to the aircraft themselves, but their weapons too.
- Crucially, one point that was important to Finland was the ability to replenish bombs and missiles quickly by borrowing them from the vendor country. Obviously America's reserves are much larger than France's.
- And of course, America's diplomatic and military clout is unmatched.
- It is the most recent aircraft in the competition, being about 15 years younger than the others. That does give it an edge in potential service life duration.
- The much vaunted stealth.
Does that make it superior to the Rafale? If these points are enough for you, yes. But there are other points that are actually in its disfavor -- it's just these points are not relevant to Finland.
Amca can deal will both j-31 and j-20 problem is when amca comes online the plaaf will have atleast 200-500 j-20 and 100 j-31. We need atleast two squadrons of su-57 or the f-35 by that time