Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Herciv said:
Yes I have :
www.bloomberg.com

Pentagon Cuts Its Request for Lockheed’s F-35s by 35%

The Pentagon will request 61 F-35s in its next budget, 33 fewer of the stealth jets from Lockheed Martin Corp. than previously planned, according to people familiar with the spending blueprint.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com

Pentagon Cuts Its Request for Lockheed’s F-35s by 35%​

  • Defense Department to seek 61 in next budget instead of 94
  • Fighter is flying over Eastern Europe despite software issues


The Pentagon will request 61 F-35s in its next budget, 33 fewer of the stealth jets from Lockheed Martin Corp. than previously planned, according to people familiar with the spending blueprint.
The U.S. Defense Department had planned to fund 94 of the fighters in fiscal 2023, up from the 85 in this year’s budget, according to the most recent “Selected Acquisition Report” on its costliest program.

Lockheed tumbled 6.1% to $421.34, the steepest decline since Oct. 26.
The proposed reduction for the F-35 may be the most controversial procurement item in a national security budget request that’s expected to top $770 billion for the year that begins Oct. 1.
The F-35 is currently being deployed to Eastern Europe in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Six F-35s from the Air Forces 34th Fighter Squadron are flying “air policing” missions from Estonia and Romania. German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht announced Monday that Germany would buy 35 of the warplanes.

But the proposed slowdown in purchases may raise questions among lawmakers, Lockheed investors and overseas customers about a lessening of the U.S. commitment to a program projected to cost $398 billion in development and acquisition plus an additional $1.2 trillion to operate and maintain the fleet over 66 years. The people familiar with the budget plan asked not to be identified in advance of the budget release in coming weeks.

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The rationale for the reduction won’t be officially explained until the proposed Pentagon budget is made public. But the request comes as negotiations with Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed over the next F-35 contract -- for about 400 planes -- are going slower than anticipated. And F-35s remain hobbled by flawed execution of a crucial upgrade of their software and hardware capabilities that’s estimated to cost $14 billion.

Boeing’s F-15EX​


Along with the proposed F-35 reduction, the Air Force will request 24 non-stealthy F-15EX jets built by Boeing Co., up from 14 planned in the fiscal 2021 budget. The EX model carries more ordnance than the F-35 and is estimated to be cheaper to fly. Still, the service plans to purchase many more F-35s than EX jets.

Asked about the cutback in planned F-35 purchases, Laura Seal, spokeswoman for the Defense Department’s F-35 program office, said the budget request can be discussed “once it is delivered and released, but not before.” Spokespersons for the Air Force, the largest customer for F-35s, and the Navy made similar comments.
The Air Force will request 33 F-35As instead of the 48 planned, the Navy will seek 13 of its version instead of 26 and the Marine Corps will request 15 rather than 20.

The Boeing F-15EX jet.
Source: Boeing Co.
The F-35’s “Block 4” software and hardware upgrade is currently being installed on deployed jets even though it’s “immature, deficient and insufficiently tested,” according to an assessment by the Pentagon testing office released in January. Aircraft operators “identified deficiencies in weapons, fusion, communications and navigation, cybersecurity and targeting processes that required software modification and additional time and resources, which caused delays,” it said.
The aircraft flying missions now, including those in Europe, are described as capable by Pentagon officials, however. “We understand the threats that the F-35 is going up against today,” Lieutenant General Eric Fick, who heads the F-35 program office, told reporters this month. “We understand the threats largely propagated throughout Europe, and those were the threats that the airplane was developed to counter.”

Earlier: Lockheed’s F-35s Get a Flawed $14 Billion Software Upgrade
A person familiar with the Air Force’s rationale for purchasing fewer planes said it shouldn’t be seen as stepping back from the service’s long-stated goal to buy 1,763 F-35s. Instead, the person said, it’s a matter of slowing purchases until the full Block 4 capability can be delivered on new jets in order to minimize the cost to retrofit them.
In addition, the F-35 is at least 14 months from starting and completing a much-delayed combat simulation to test its performance against the most advanced Russian and Chinese air defense and aircraft threats it faces now and are likely in the future. The simulated sorties were to take place in 2017, then 2020 and are now planned for sometime between June and September of 2023, Fick told reporters this month.
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I'm aware of the unconfirmed article. I will await a statement as to what is happening.
These are your nonsense musings I was referring to. nothing in the article that I saw to support your ranting
"I think the problem is much more related to the new engine and the very risky roadmap to adapt the old F-35 to the new engines (PW and GE) with no more reservations due to the work in 2015 to reduce the weight of the F-35 using less titanium and more steel.
I thing that pentagone has a major problem and takes a high risk to lack fighters when geopolitical risks are going bigger."
 
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Herciv said:
And you don't know the best part ... The new engines are part of the block4 : without the new engine all the block4 can't be delivered. ANd there are both of them to be integrated .
https://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=37188🥳
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I don't think I've met a bigger deceitful troll as you. Engine is a part of block 4.2. Of course block 4.1 and 4.2 can be delivered. The engine is said to be 2027, but it may slip.
 
Optimist said:
The flight hours are available. we fly the F-35 more hours per plane than our super hornet. Our F-35 are IOC and will be FOC next year. I think you mean the US full rate production with final testing.
Click to expand...

It's always a problem when initially planned flight hours are not met.
 
Optimist said:
only in your mind. they were set years ago and are surplus to requirement. did you read the statement?
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That's how it's worded to the general public though. Even we have a pilot shortage, but the IAF says we are fine. But people are unable to explain why the 13th MKI squadron is yet to be raised even though all the jets have been delivered as of a year ago.

And we can extrapolate by looking at data from the US, where they are not very happy with the availability of the jet.

www.defensenews.com

The Defense Department still isn’t meeting its F-35 readiness goals

Today, only 36 percent of F-35s are capable of performing all of the missions it was designed to accomplish.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

So if the US isn't able to keep up, foreign air forces will be worse.
 
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Guerre en Ukraine : la France relève son niveau d'alerte nucléaire

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

War in Ukraine: France raises its nuclear alert level

The French Navy has deployed almost all of its nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines (SNLE). Each submarine can carry up to 16 M51 intercontinental missiles.

16 M51 intercontinental missiles per SSBN

It is unclear how long this has lasted, and how long it may last: the Strategic Oleagic Force (SOF) has not only deployed the usual nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) on patrol, but has far exceeded its nominal contract. This is according to the FOSt's nuclear contract with the head of the armed forces and President of the Republic Emmanuel Macron. Each submarine can carry up to 16 M51 intercontinental missiles produced by ArianeGroup, of which Airbus is a shareholder. Nevertheless, from the beginning of the war in Ukraine, the Breton daily "Le Télégramme de Brest" assured that France had even put a second SNLE on patrol. This is possible thanks to the SNLE cycle: one submarine is undergoing major maintenance for several months, one is returning from patrol, another is preparing to go on mission, and the fourth is in reserve.

Three submarines on patrol

By optimising this cycle, the Navy has managed to have not two but three submarines on patrol simultaneously, a feat made necessary by the situation in Ukraine and the aggressiveness of Russia. This decision taken by the President of the Republic, no doubt on the advice of the Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces, General Thierry Burkhard, is linked to the risk of nuclear or conventional fire on Ile Longue, which leaves very little notice. By taking out its "boomers", the Navy has protected them from such a problem. Once they are "disseminated" under the ocean, they are virtually undetectable, and thus contribute perfectly to deterrence.

Deterrent posture

One way to make them last is also, possibly, to continue in the exception, and to make a crew change (each SNLE, including the one undergoing a major refit, has two) outside of metropolitan territory. Many alternatives are possible, but would be unheard of. We have never heard of a relief outside Ile Longue, only of a patrol interrupted by a patient. No formalization of this unprecedented situation in the current 4 SNLE format has been made by the French authorities. France's deterrence posture is known: at least one SNLE at sea, and two Rafale squadrons of the 4th fighter wing, within the 1/4 Gascogne and 2/4 La Fayette fighter squadrons. These Rafales carry the MBDA ASMP-A.

ASMP-A missiles with Rafale

The French Naval Air Force (FANu) is also capable of deploying the ASMP-A with its Rafales, as Air&Cosmos recalled at the beginning of the crisis. Ear-marked pilots have this capability. On the other hand, because the Rafale Marine is necessarily single-seater and the base of departure is not on land, the governmental control (carried out by the nuclear weapons gendarmerie) and the implementation are different. The only limiting factor of the FOSt is in fact the number of batches of M51 missiles, and the number of missiles in working order, an exact number obviously classified. So far, the Navy has not given any definitive clue about its deployments at sea, but several clues, which it is not possible to detail here, have been planted. When asked at a meeting with AJD journalists on 8 March, Admiral Vandier remained cryptic, making it clear that there was no communication about nuclear deployments. This was in line with the United States and Great Britain, which had decided, along with France, not to detail their plans.
 
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screambowl said:
I thought Germany can build it's own 5th gen but due to arms embargo they are not allowed.
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Nah, they can't. They haven't built a fighter jet since WW2 -- and the Americans and the Russians both took their best surviving engineers back then.

If you look at post-war Luftwaffe, you'll see they just bought American equipment (West Germany) and Soviet equipment (East Germany), and didn't develop anything on their own. True, West Germany did participate in a few fighter programs, but they never made one on their own. They did the Alpha Jet with France, the Tornado with the UK and Italy, and the Typhoon with the UK, Italy, and Spain. In all these projects, they were never in charge of things such as the engine, the flight controls, the radar, or the weapon systems.

Granted, lack of experience is not an insurmountable obstacle. They could still do something. But it'd cost them a lot in R&D to get up to par with what the rest of the world is doing. I mean just compare the cost of a Bayraktar TB2 with that of the German-led Eurodrone to get an idea of how expensive things get when Germans are involved.

That's why they're just getting back into their old habits and buying the F-35 off the shelves, like they had before bought the F-4 and the F-104.
 
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randomradio said:
That's how it's worded to the general public though. Even we have a pilot shortage, but the IAF says we are fine. But people are unable to explain why the 13th MKI squadron is yet to be raised even though all the jets have been delivered as of a year ago.

And we can extrapolate by looking at data from the US, where they are not very happy with the availability of the jet.

www.defensenews.com

The Defense Department still isn’t meeting its F-35 readiness goals

Today, only 36 percent of F-35s are capable of performing all of the missions it was designed to accomplish.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

So if the US isn't able to keep up, foreign air forces will be worse.
Click to expand...
Ask @Herciv to put up his charts on the F-35 in Australia, he is so proud of. He will show you how many hours a year we are flying.
 
Optimist said:
Ask @Herciv to put up his charts on the F-35 in Australia, he is so proud of. He will show you how many hours a year we are flying.
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Hey welcome back pops. Didn't see you out here since the beginning of the Ukrainian war. Figured you may have had a bout of self righteous anger against the Russkies like all Anglos did & still do as evidenced here & went right ahead like a true Aussie & enlisted unlike loudmouth Paddy. @BMD
 
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F-35 Program Stagnated in 2021 but DOD Testing Office Hiding Full Extent of Problem

Despite more than 20 years and approximately $62.5 billion spent so far on research and development alone, program officials still haven’t been able to deliver an aircraft that can fly as often as needed or to demonstrate its ability to perform in combat, which places military personnel in jeopardy.

  • The F-35’s availability rates “plateaued” over most of 2021 and then declined in the final months of the year.
  • Program leaders abandoned the efforts to complete the troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) and instead decided to build a new network called Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN). The new system, meant to anticipate maintenance problems and track parts and repair processes, runs faster and is more deployable than ALIS but is already behind schedule and has some of the same cyber vulnerabilities.
  • The Joint Simulation Environment, meant to be a high-fidelity and fully validated and verified simulator to test the F-35’s high-end capabilities, is now more than four years behind schedule. A full-production decision can’t be made until the planned 64 tests in the simulation can be completed.
  • The F-35 program’s modernization effort, an effort to complete the delivery of capabilities that should have been included under the original development contract, is behind schedule and has done little to reduce the high number of unresolved design flaws.


https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2022/...=pogotwitter&utm_medium=link&utm_content=live
 
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One of the most schizophrenic article I have ever seen on the F-35 !
www.forbes.com

Tone Deaf: Key Allies Buy New F-35s As Pentagon Aims To Cut Program

Today, the F-35 is the standard for top-tier air forces throughout the world. But this under-estimated and hard-won success may crumble away as a Pentagon begins pulling the rug out from under the F-35 program, hitting it with an abrupt 35% cut to next year’s order book.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Tone Deaf: Key Allies Buy New F-35s As Pentagon Aims To Cut Program​


Time For Congress to debate the F-35 value proposition
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
As the Cold War faded, the U.S. took a big gamble that the nation would need the advanced F-35 Lightning II fighter-bomber. And, after two decades, America’s big bet has, for all intents and purposes, been proven correct as advanced technologies are coming on-line to counter a resurgent Russia and an increasingly aggressive China. Today, the F-35 is the standard for top-tier air forces throughout the world. But this under-estimated and hard-won framework for global success may crumble away as the Pentagon, eager for the “next big thing,” begins pulling the rug out from under the F-35 program, hitting it with an abrupt 35% cut to next year’s order book.

Observers expect next year’s Air Force order will be chopped by a third, the Marine Corps will buy 25% fewer aircraft, and the Navy will slash purchases of the marinized F-35C by half. In total, 33 aircraft will be cut from an expected procurement of 94.
This drastic cut makes little sense. With the F-35 working and with fifteen countries currently operating or committed to operate F-35s, disengaging from the program is difficult for the Pentagon to defend. No alternatives are in public view, and the F-35 is well on the way to becoming the global fighter it was originally intended to be.
Doctrinally, the production cut is hard to justify. Certainly, the new National Defense Strategy has yet to emerge from the depths of the Pentagon, but President Joe Biden’s Interim National Security Strategic Guidance supports the F-35’s value proposition. The Interim Guidance highlights the international threats the F-35 was crafted to meet. It also urges the reinvigoration and modernization of alliances and partnerships around the world. As such, the F-35 is already part of the “smart and disciplined” glue that keeps the U.S. a vital contributor to NATO and other critical alliances.
With a little effort, the Navy, Air Force, Congress and the administration can come together to take the win. There is still time for the Biden Administration to roll back the proposed cuts, and, even if it moves ahead, locking itself into a cost-constrained, “divest-to-reinvest” strategy, service secretaries can still encourage both the Navy and the Air Force to include the restoration of lost F-35’s in their respective Unfunded Priorities Lists, enabling Congress to debate both the value and future of the F-35 program.
MORE FOR YOU

​


The F-35 Works​

Despite the dire headlines from testing reports, the F-35 works. Put another way, the aircraft is no flying version of the Navy’s hapless Zumwalt class destroyer—a 22-billion-dollar catastrophe. And, even though, after fifteen years, only one of three Zumwalt-class destroyers is currently commissioned, the Pentagon seems set to allow those ships to wallow around, with no mission and no functional primary armament. In contrast, the F-35 is going to work every day in countries throughout the world.

It’s not something that the public hears much about due the classified nature of the F-35’s mission and capabilities.
As more defense agencies move to keep their “high-end” warfighting capabilities secret, F-35 success stories are rarely discussed or disclosed. The F-35’s first combat success was kept secret for a year. Just this month, the Israeli Defense Forces revealed the F-35’s first combat success. Twelve months ago, F-35I Adir fighters shot down two Iranian Shahad 197 drones in the “first operational interception of a UAV by an F-35I aircraft in the world,” with the Israeli aircraft precisely detecting, identifying and engaging their targets.


If demonstrated performance is insufficient, the conflict in Ukraine is reinforcing the value of the F-35’s ambitious focus on warfighter integration and alliance operations. In Ukraine’s contested airspace, Russia’s top-tier 4th Generation Air Force platforms, unable to integrate effectively with other Russian warfighting systems, have completely failed to live up to their robust reputation. Russia’s arsenal of electronic warfare systems—systems that observers feared would hopelessly scramble the F-35’s ambitious integration and sensor networking capabilities—have proven to be far more vulnerable and fragile than expected.
The daunting computing and simulation challenges enmeshed with the 5th generation F-35 platform are paying enormous dividends. The work completed on the F-35 will help keep the United States in the lead as warfighters endeavor to bring other platforms—friendly aircraft, networked UAVs, attritable drones and other warfighting networks—together.
Let’s get this right before cutting production and dashing off to procure the next new thing.

The F-35 is Democracy’s Arsenal​

Even worse, if Congress permits the Pentagon to step away from the F-35 program now, it leaves important members of key U.S. alliances high and dry. By slashing procurement and potentially driving the platform into a death spiral, where unit and operational costs spike to the point where customers balk, the Pentagon risks throwing away America’s global dominance in air warfare and, potentially consigning the program to an early termination.
Big, abrupt cuts send a terrible message to NATO, making a mockery of President Biden’s clear guidance on alliance-building. Defense leaders throughout Europe are taking real risks to support the F-35. What does it say to walk back America’s F-35 program of record just as foreign orders are pouring in? Late last year, Finland committed to 64 F-35A’s, turning down high-end and low-end competitors from Boeing, Dassault, Saab and the Eurofighter consortium. Last week, in something of a surprise, Germany signed up, aiming to replace aging Tornado fighter-bombers with 35 F-35As. Even cost-conscious, economy-minded Switzerland bought F-35s.
At sea, until Russia wiggles out from sanctions and China starts delivering carrier-ready aircraft, the marinized F-35B and F-35C jets are the sole modern aircraft available for countries looking to generate aircraft carrier capability. For the next few decades, the F-35 will be the platform of choice for friendly navies.
Across the globe, other countries are mulling their options as they modernize their air forces. And with poorly integrated Russian aircraft failing to demonstrate their effectiveness over Ukraine, the F-35—and the painstaking effort to seamlessly fuse the platform into cohesive sensor constellations—is starting to look like the last remaining option for countries that aspire to field a modern air force.
As Russia’s airborne offerings are now out of favor, the Pentagon’s efforts to save a few pennies risks pushing potential “unaligned” buyers to re-evaluate their options. And if the only other viable top-tier offering is Chinese, the machinations of the Pentagon’s green-eyeshade strategists will have unintentionally tossed a lifeline to America’s primary technological competitor.
In short, every extra F-35 purchase helps control F-35 program costs. And with every purchase, the global industrial base deepens, offering the U.S. F-35 fleet an extra measure of resiliency. Wide employment of the F-35 grants American policymakers far more opportunities to leverage easy coordination with overseas partners.
Few other platforms in the U.S. arsenal have done more to irreversibly entangle the U.S. in alliance structures that are, today, proving their value in standing tall against creeping authoritarianism.

Let’s Debate the F-35 Value Proposition​

In D.C., the technology wrapped into the F-35 is becoming “old news” and Pentagon technologists are, in the name of “divest-to-reinvest,” looking to the hot new thing.
We already know how that story goes. In a decade or so, if the next “big new thing” fails to live up to its full potential, Washington could well be scrambling to keep America’s attenuated F-35 fleet operational and mulling fantastical initiatives to resurrect long-dead F-35 production lines.
The F-35 has come a long way. A surprise 35% procurement cut, right now, is a penalty only meted out to the poorest-performing programs. It is a step that deserves to be evaluated by Congress, and, if the Pentagon is forcing the Air Force and Navy to limit their purchases, endangering America’s goal of a 2,400-strong F-35 fleet, the services should add their missing F-35s to their Unfunded Priorities Lists, and have Congress open the debate on the F-35’s value proposition. We may find that, in this case, the much-abused F-35 is worth every penny—and more.

My comments :
The risk that this Forbes article sees is that of the PONZI pyramid.

Congress tried to save the program with the engine renewal. There is no choice without AETP the block4 can not be installed completely. The new systems are too power hungry and the F-135 is really unreliable. But in doing so it almost sent a torpedo.

The problem is that you can't integrate two new engines with brand new technologies and a very different use without redesigning part of the aircraft. And it's already coming out of an intensive redesign.


This article is great, it contains everything we have been saying for years: PONZI's pyramid, obsolescence, Roadmap largely exploded which steals budget from the programs which come after, chained allies, Schizophenia of the lobbyists of all kinds...

If Dassault is looking for industrial capacities in Europe, there are some there will be some available at CAMERI.

Anyway. Who wants popcorn?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
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screambowl said:
So the indigenous European project to develop their own 5th and 6th gen aircraft will be further delayed after F35 entry in German air force?
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Germany could go for both. They have the industrial, technological and economical advantage. Must say they have population advantage as well courtesy the middle eastern saga.
 
The US Navy has revealed the inability of fifth-generation F-35 fighters to withstand sea salt. Rust stains have become visible on the planes, there is corrosion of the outer skin.


 
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