Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

RASALGHUL said:
Any evidence to back this claim?
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Lol, numerous videos to prove this point.

Just show me any plane of the world doing what Su-30 does at 1:09 mark(except Su-35 and Su-57) and then we're talking:


Just show me one Raptor demo with 90° high alpha pass and then we're talking or else....

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USA vs Russia Air Force Agility "F-22" vs "SU-30" #shorts

The Cobra Stance, in aerobatics, Pugachev's Cobra (or Pugachev Cobra) is a dramatic and demanding maneuver in which an airplane flying at a moderate speed su...
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Bon Plan said:
To be seen.
But F22 is mainly made for BVR fight. WVR combat is only a last option. => 6 AMRAAM for the BVR, only 2 AIM9 for WVR. Canon for warning shot.
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Obviously, Raptor is designed primarily as a BVR fighter, but in the video, the test pilot claimed that it's more manueverable than Su-30 variants, which is flat out wrong.

No plane touches Su-30MKI in high alpha and manueverability, period. No plane. In high alpha thanks to bigger LERX and canards it is even better than Su-35S.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Obviously, Raptor is designed primarily as a BVR fighter, but in the video, the test pilot claimed that it's more manueverable than Su-30 variants, which is flat out wrong.

No plane touches Su-30MKI in high alpha and manueverability, period. No plane. In high alpha thanks to bigger LERX and canards it is even better than Su-35S.
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Dogfight begins @8:50
:rolleyes:
 
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Innominate said:
Dogfight begins @8:50
:rolleyes:
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Did you miss the commentary before the actual dogfight where he's candid enough to admit he got lucky that day & that he's been beaten before by the MKM , further adding that the 2 toughest FAs he's squared up against are the Raptors & the Flankers.

Wish you had a tenth of the honesty that fighter pilot had or even a tenth of his intelligence for then you'd not have linked this video.

Autism & dyslexia is still strong in this one.
 
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Right. So it has better kinematics. That's a good advantage to have in a dog fight but is that the only advantage that determines which way a dog fight would go? What sort of retarded analysis are you peddling here?
 
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The MKI has a 2.5D TVC capability, so it has a significant advantage over the F-22's limited 2D capability. While the F-22's TVC improves pitch, the MKI's TVC significantly improves pitch, roll and yaw. The result is a significantly higher ITR and nose authority. Which means, even after the MKI slows down, it can still point its nose towards the enemy and kill it. For other aircraft, slowing down is a death sentence, even the F-22.

The Su-35S is superior to the MKI. It has a lighter nose due to a lighter radar, superior engine and better/more modern flight controls. So, even without canards, it can perform better than the MKI. Canards were added to the MKI because the Bars radar is really heavy, 650Kg versus Irbis-E's 350Kg. The Su-30SM2, with the same radar and engine, could be better, we have to wait for more information. The Su-57 blows them both outta the sky.
 
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randomradio said:
The MKI has a 2.5D TVC capability, so it has a significant advantage over the F-22's limited 2D capability. While the F-22's TVC improves pitch, the MKI's TVC significantly improves pitch, roll and yaw. The result is a significantly higher ITR and nose authority. Which means, even after the MKI slows down, it can still point its nose towards the enemy and kill it. For other aircraft, slowing down is a death sentence, even the F-22.
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Exactly.
randomradio said:
The Su-35S is superior to the MKI. It has a lighter nose due to a lighter radar, superior engine and better/more modern flight controls. So, even without canards, it can perform better than the MKI. Canards were added to the MKI because the Bars radar is really heavy, 650Kg versus Irbis-E's 350Kg. The Su-30SM2, with the same radar and engine, could be better, we have to wait for more information. The Su-57 blows them both outta the sky.
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Su-35S is better than MKI only whem it's standing on its tail and yawing thanks to more thrust.

In the pitch regime, no plane can touch MKI, not even Su-35S. It's not only canards, but MKI has much bigger LERX(derived from Su-33/Su-27M), which produces much more lift and changes its CoG and CoP versus Su-35S despite heavier nose.

Haven't seen any plane, even Su-35S or Su-57 match MKI's 90° high alpha pass in angle or timing till date.

Su-57 blows them both, but that's a different flight regime. Around 600 to 650kmph, MKI will kill any plane if the pilot knows what he needs to do.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Exactly.

Su-35S is better than MKI only whem it's standing on its tail and yawing thanks to more thrust.

In the pitch regime, no plane can touch MKI, not even Su-35S. It's not only canards, but MKI has much bigger LERX(derived from Su-33/Su-27M), which produces much more lift and changes its CoG and CoP versus Su-35S despite heavier nose.

Haven't seen any plane, even Su-35S or Su-57 match MKI's 90° high alpha pass in angle or timing till date.

Su-57 blows them both, but that's a different flight regime. Around 600 to 650kmph, MKI will kill any plane if the pilot knows what he needs to do.
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As per Russian test pilots, the Su-35 is better and the S-57 is even better. Su-35 has LERX too, and the canards don't help as much. In fact the Su-35 is said to be capable of manoeuvres the MKI cannot.
 
randomradio said:
As per Russian test pilots, the Su-35 is better and the S-57 is even better. Su-35 has LERX too, and the canards don't help as much. In fact the Su-35 is said to be capable of manoeuvres the MKI cannot.
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Su-35S has LERX too but it hasn't got enlarged LERX that MKI has got which is derived from Su-33 naval fighter. MKI can hold high alpha much longer than Su-35S and its pitch rate is superior to Su-35. Yaw rate is identical. Only maneuver Su-35S can do better is using its high thrust and standing on its tail J-turn.

With AL-41F-1S, Su-30SM2 would clearly be much superior to Su-35S except acceleration and top speed, since Su-35S is aerodynamically much cleaner.

For maneuverability, no design can touch the triplane unstable design of MKI. That's why Su-57 is using LEVCONs to create the same effect.

Anyways, all three of them hump the Raptor or any Western plane, that was my whole point.
Hydra said:
Read in between the lines.

@randomradio @vstol Jockey
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He is talking about LCH, lolz.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Su-35S has LERX too but it hasn't got enlarged LERX that MKI has got which is derived from Su-33 naval fighter. MKI can hold high alpha much longer than Su-35S and its pitch rate is superior to Su-35. Yaw rate is identical. Only maneuver Su-35S can do better is using its high thrust and standing on its tail J-turn.

With AL-41F-1S, Su-30SM2 would clearly be much superior to Su-35S except acceleration and top speed, since Su-35S is aerodynamically much cleaner.

For maneuverability, no design can touch the triplane unstable design of MKI. That's why Su-57 is using LEVCONs to create the same effect.

Anyways, all three of them hump the Raptor or any Western plane, that was my whole point.

He is talking about LCH, lolz.
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He is, but he had shared a vague tweet of F35 earlier too. I beleive something is cooking for sure.
 
Hydra said:
He is, but he had shared a vague tweet of F35 earlier too. I beleive something is cooking for sure.
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Lol. Ohhh the butt hurt by many F-35-contras in here if India announces it is interested in F-35's will be absolutely DELICIOUS!

But I doubt it since US doesn't trust India yet with F-35 tech.
 
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Innominate said:
Lol. Ohhh the butt hurt by many F-35-contras in here if India announces it is interested in F-35's will be absolutely DELICIOUS!

But I doubt it since US doesn't trust India yet with F-35 tech.
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There are times I think the US is more anxious to sell us the Lightnings than we are to buy them. In any case, you're definitely more keen we show even an inkling of interest in it, so that you can come boast about it here till kingdom come.

A few yrs ago the same LM was busy telling everyone out here willing to give them an ear that the US could only consider India to be a prospective buyer of the F-35, if we bought the F-21 / F-16 under the MRFA tender or thru an outright government to government deal.

Quite obviously they didn't hear all the laughter their announcement was subjected to . Meanwhile this is the kind of hard sell of an US platform well past it's sell by date we're supposed to put up with.👇

 
Very soon India is going to announce a massive Rafale deal for both IAF(repeat order of 2-3 squadrons) and IN(26 fighters), thus breaking American fanboys' heart once and forever. @Hydra
 
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Innominate said:
Lol. Ohhh the butt hurt by many F-35-contras in here if India announces it is interested in F-35's will be absolutely DELICIOUS!

But I doubt it since US doesn't trust India yet with F-35 tech.
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The IAF needs supercruisers, not a flying turkey. Props to Biden for trying though.

Try the navy instead. For the IAF, it's NGAD or bust.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Very soon India is going to announce a massive Rafale deal for both IAF(repeat order of 2-3 squadrons) and IN(26 fighters), thus breaking American fanboys' heart once and forever. @Hydra
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This is getting delusional now. Why the F would any F-35 fanboy care whether India bought the Rafale or the SU-xx , or something else? We know India isn't being offered the F-35.
 
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