US Air Force wants to avoid F-35 mistakes on sixth-gen fighter
The Air Force plans to award a contract to a vendor to build its Next Generation Air Dominance fighter in 2024.
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Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
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There is no money for an engine upgrade. all there money will go to a new engine for FCAS, which is the most sensible. Why chase yesterday's 70's tech?Why is Señor frog bringing up the topic of F-35 super cruise? Who here has claimed F-35 can SC like F-22?
Now current rafale being much heavier than A model but with same engines and claiming it can super cruise with missiles and a tank is more BS than a Bull pasture.
French company Safran, which manufactures the M88 engine of the Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft plans to increase its thrust from 7.5 tone to nine tons.
La Tribune newspaper said yesterday quoting CEO of Safran, Philippe Petitcolin that, the engine upgrade in terms of thrust was necessary as the Rafale had grown heavier over the years due to addition of weapons and other systems.
He said that the original thrust of the Rafale engine was the same since the launch of the French fighter. The Rafale was designed over two decades ago.
However, the upgrade issue had not been discussed with Dassault Aviation, the Safran CEO added.
“It is time to ask the question whether it is appropriate to launch a study that would increase the engine thrust. Technically we can do. We are in discussion with the relevant authorities to see if possible. and if so, under what conditions and at what level of performance, it would be desirable to improve it, said Philippe Petitcolin.
Safran Plans Engine Upgrade For Dassault Rafale Fighter Jet
French company Safran, which manufactures the M88 engine of the Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft plans to increase its thrust from 7.5 tone to nine tons. La Tribune newspaper said yesterday quoting CEO of Safran, Philippe Petitcolin that, the engine upgrade in terms of thrust was necessary as...www.defenseworld.net
rafale is a heavy/heavier girl and she hasn't had an engine upgrade.
This F-22 supercruise...Rafale 'me too' nonsense from them is so silly. Anyone with half a brain can see it is BS
The UK may have to make do with 74 F-35Bs out of the 138 initially envisaged
(opex360 (fr) may 29)As the United States' only first-tier partner in the Joint Strike Fighter programme, the UK had initially planned to buy 138 F-35B fighter-bombers (the STOVL version stands for Short Take-Off Vertical Landing), including 114 for the Royal Air Force [RAF] and 24 for the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm.
However, to date, only 48 aircraft have been ordered by the UK Ministry of Defence [MoD], with the last aircraft in this batch [or tranche 1] due to be delivered before the end of 2025. Obviously, this is not enough, especially as the Royal Navy has two aircraft carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales.
Also, the strategic review "Defence in an Era of Competition", published by London in March 2021, stressed the need for the Royal Air Force to increase "its air combat capability over the next few years [...] by going beyond the 48 F-35Bs already ordered". But the document said nothing about the Fleet Air Arm, the first unit of which, 809 Naval Air Squadron, is due to be equipped with the Lockheed-Martin fighter-bomber.
Finally, in May 2022, the MoD announced that negotiations had begun for an order for 26 additional F-35Bs. And these negotiations are still ongoing, despite the fact that the aim is to have these new aircraft in service by the beginning of the 2030s. This was confirmed by the RAF's new Chief of Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Richard Knighton, at a parliamentary hearing on 16 May.
As to whether the purchase of 64 F-35Bs was still on the table [in order to reach the final target of 138 aircraft, editor's note], he replied that a decision would be taken around 2025... And that it would depend on those relating to the future air combat system [Global Combat Air Programme, conducted in cooperation with Italy and Japan, editor's note].
But in the meantime, suggested the RAF Chief of Staff, the 74 F-35Bs would be sufficient for the time being to enable the UK to meet its commitments to Nato.
"If the wider question is whether the UK needs more fighter aircraft or air combat capability, the answer is yes. That's why the government seems committed to going beyond the 48 [F-35Bs] to 74. [...] But it's not just a question of numbers: it's also a question of capabilities. It's about investing in improving the Typhoon and the F-35 as well as unmanned capabilities and what we're doing in the FCAS [Future Combat Air System]," explained Air Chief Marshal Sir Richard Knighton. /deepl
All the work to be done in the F-35 to sustain new evolutions is simply to make a whole new plane...
Page 32 GAO-23-106047 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter
overall F-35 program, which presents oversight and transparency risks
similar to those we identified with Block 4.
The F-35 uses its power and thermal management system (PTMS) to
cool the aircraft’s subsystems that generate heat. The PTMS, a system
designed by a Lockheed Martin subcontractor, among other things, uses
air pressure from the engine to provide cooling to aircraft subsystems,
such as the radar, to ensure they do not overheat and fail. The PTMS is a
complex subsystem that also includes the equipment necessary to
provide aircraft main engine start, emergency power, cockpit conditioning,
equipment cooling, and some electrical power.
The PTMS, however, needs more air pressure from the engine to cool
subsystems than originally anticipated, which is reducing the life of the
engine. Program officials explained that Pratt & Whitney designed the
engine to provide a certain amount of air pressure to the PTMS, which
Lockheed Martin defined early in the development program. While Pratt &
Whitney’s F135 engine met those air pressure specifications, program
officials stated that, in 2008, Lockheed Martin discovered that the PTMS
would need more air pressure from the engine than originally anticipated
to help cool aircraft subsystems. According to program officials, in 2013,
Lockheed Martin requested to change the F135’s design to provide more
air pressure to the PTMS, but program officials determined that it was too
late to redesign the engine given the cost and schedule effects of such a
change at that stage of the overall program. Program officials decided to
continue with the F135 engine’s original design with the understanding
that there would be increased wear and tear, more maintenance, and
reduced life on the engine because it would need to provide more air
pressure to the PTMS than its design intended.
These cooling problems will only get worse as the program adds new
capabilities to the aircraft. Modernization capabilities—including Block 4
capabilities already installed and future ones planned for through 2035—
require even more cooling capacity and air pressure than the PTMS and
the engine can support, respectively. Program officials noted that
Lockheed Martin did not anticipate needing more cooling from the PTMS
when it proposed Block 4. However, the addition of Block 4 will require
more cooling capacity. The program is planning additional future
capabilities beyond Block 4, which will also need more cooling. Therefore,
the program expects the engine will need to provide even more air
pressure to PTMS to support future capabilities, which will further reduce
engine life.
p45
However, the F-35 program plans to upgrade at least two major
components, the engine and thermal management system, and is at risk
of needing to upgrade other aircraft components, such as the electrical
power system, gearbox, and fuel thermal management system.
Collectively, the program expects these upgrades to cost billions of
dollars.
Page 32 GAO-23-106047 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter
overall F-35 program, which presents oversight and transparency risks
similar to those we identified with Block 4.
The F-35 uses its power and thermal management system (PTMS) to
cool the aircraft’s subsystems that generate heat. The PTMS, a system
designed by a Lockheed Martin subcontractor, among other things, uses
air pressure from the engine to provide cooling to aircraft subsystems,
such as the radar, to ensure they do not overheat and fail. The PTMS is a
complex subsystem that also includes the equipment necessary to
provide aircraft main engine start, emergency power, cockpit conditioning,
equipment cooling, and some electrical power.
The PTMS, however, needs more air pressure from the engine to cool
subsystems than originally anticipated, which is reducing the life of the
engine. Program officials explained that Pratt & Whitney designed the
engine to provide a certain amount of air pressure to the PTMS, which
Lockheed Martin defined early in the development program. While Pratt &
Whitney’s F135 engine met those air pressure specifications, program
officials stated that, in 2008, Lockheed Martin discovered that the PTMS
would need more air pressure from the engine than originally anticipated
to help cool aircraft subsystems. According to program officials, in 2013,
Lockheed Martin requested to change the F135’s design to provide more
air pressure to the PTMS, but program officials determined that it was too
late to redesign the engine given the cost and schedule effects of such a
change at that stage of the overall program. Program officials decided to
continue with the F135 engine’s original design with the understanding
that there would be increased wear and tear, more maintenance, and
reduced life on the engine because it would need to provide more air
pressure to the PTMS than its design intended.
These cooling problems will only get worse as the program adds new
capabilities to the aircraft. Modernization capabilities—including Block 4
capabilities already installed and future ones planned for through 2035—
require even more cooling capacity and air pressure than the PTMS and
the engine can support, respectively. Program officials noted that
Lockheed Martin did not anticipate needing more cooling from the PTMS
when it proposed Block 4. However, the addition of Block 4 will require
more cooling capacity. The program is planning additional future
capabilities beyond Block 4, which will also need more cooling. Therefore,
the program expects the engine will need to provide even more air
pressure to PTMS to support future capabilities, which will further reduce
engine life.
p45
However, the F-35 program plans to upgrade at least two major
components, the engine and thermal management system, and is at risk
of needing to upgrade other aircraft components, such as the electrical
power system, gearbox, and fuel thermal management system.
Collectively, the program expects these upgrades to cost billions of
dollars.
Being a Rafale fanboy. You don't know much about updates from your 1980's aircraft. There is still a list of things it doesn't have. Let alone updating the things that it does have.
It's true that you have absolute knowledge of it by divine right and that we're lucky to have you to enlighten us. That said, we may be teaching you things about the F-35 that you don't want to see?
Two very interresting articles :
belisarius21.wordpress.com
and https://belisarius21.wordpress.com/2023/05/11/το-f-35-θα-συμβάλλει-στην-αποτροπή-ή-μήπ/
Το F-35 θα συμβάλλει στην αποτροπή – ή μήπως όχι;
γράφει Ειδικός Συνεργάτης Εικόνα 1: Ένα F-35 Joint Strike Fighter προσγειώνεται στην Edwards Air Force Base στις ΗΠΑ το 2007. Στο πλευρό της ατράκτου διακρίνονται οι σημαίες των κρατών που συ…
belisarius21.wordpress.com
and https://belisarius21.wordpress.com/2023/05/11/το-f-35-θα-συμβάλλει-στην-αποτροπή-ή-μήπ/
OUPS. no more F-35/TR3 until the end of the tests.
Jun 12, 08:51 PM
An F-35 Lightning II performs a flyover during noon meal formation at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., May 12, 2023. Delays in the F-35's Technology Refresh 3 upgrades will cause the Defense Department to halt deliveries of the fighters this summer. (Trevor Cokley/Air Force)
WASHINGTON — The Defense Department will stop accepting some newly built F-35 Joint Strike Fighters beginning next month as delays in upgrading the fighter drag on.
The planned delivery halt of new fighters loaded with Technology Refresh 3 hardware means manufacturer Lockheed Martin may have to store dozens of the planes at its main factory in Fort Worth, Texas, for much of the rest of the year, and perhaps into spring 2024.
The F-35′s Technology Refresh 3 effort — a slate of improvements that aim to give the fighter better displays, computer memory and processing power — was originally due this past April. TR-3 is necessary before the F-35 can receive a more expansive modernization known as Block 4, which will allow the fighter to carry more long-range precision weapons, improve its electronic warfare capability and provide better target recognition.
The TR-3 schedule has slipped considerably, and the F-35 Joint Program Office is now expecting it to arrive no early than this December — and perhaps as late as April 2024, a full year behind schedule.
The F-35 Joint Program Office said in a statement to Defense News that the TR-3 delays will in turn disrupt deliveries, causing new fighters to have to be stored in the meantime.
“Starting later this summer, F-35 aircraft coming off the production line with TR-3 hardware will not be accepted until relevant combat capability is validated in accordance with our users’ expectations,” JPO spokesman Russ Goemaere said in an email. “The JPO and Lockheed Martin will ensure these aircraft are safely and securely stored until [acceptance] occurs.”
Breaking Defense first reported the Defense Department’s plan to not accept new F-35s.
Lockheed is now building F-35s with TR-3 hardware installed, and the first such fighter is expected to come off the production line by the end of July, Goemaere said.
The challenge lies in the TR-3 software and getting the programming to work with the new hardware., he said.
In March, F-35 program executive officer Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt told the House Armed Services subcommittee on tactical air and land forces that the development of TR-3′s hardware had lagged behind and its production started slow, but that it had improved and became reliable.
Software integration, Schmidt said, began late and was proving difficult.
The JPO on Monday said the Defense Department will continue to accept deliveries of fighters with the previous hardware and software known as Technology Refresh 2.
“The government and industry team will continue to work this issue until full resolution is achieved,” Goemaere said.
Lockheed said it remains committed to delivering the first TR-3-enabled F-35 this year.
“Our team is fully dedicated to delivering TR-3 F-35 aircraft and will continue to work with the JPO on software development while maintaining the highest levels of safety and quality,” the company said in a statement to Defense News. “We continue to deliver aircraft in the TR-2 configuration as planned.”
CEO Jim Taiclet this year downplayed the potential for the problems to affect F-35 deliveries. In an April earnings call, after the TR-3 delays were acknowledged to lawmakers, he said the company expected deliveries to be lower than anticipated, but said they would be a “fraction” of total Lockheed’s total deliveries and would have “little to no” effect on the company’s aeronautics revenue.
If the problem is not resolved by the end of the year, perhaps dozens of new F-35s could be undelivered by the end of the year.
Lockheed Martin said in an email to Defense News that it is too early to say how many fighters might be affected, and the company did not say how many F-35s with TR-3 hardware it expects to build this year. The company originally planned to deliver between 147 and 153 total fighters in 2023.
Lockheed on Monday said that it has so far delivered more than 45 F-35s this year, with about 50 more TR-2 F-35s now under construction.
This will be the third time in less than a year that F-35 deliveries have been halted. In September 2022, the Pentagon announced that it had temporarily halted F-35 deliveries after the discovery of a Chinese-sourced alloy had for years been used to make a key magnet in the fighter. Those deliveries resumed in October 2022 after the Pentagon decided the Chinese material did not pose a danger to security or flight safety and issued a waiver.
Pre-delivery acceptance flights were also halted in December, which had the effect of also halting deliveries, due to an engine vibration problem that led to a Dec. 15 mishap involving an F-35B. After a fix was put in place that allowed Lockheed Martin to resume acceptance flights, the Defense Department once again began accepting new F-35s.
In the March hearing, subcommittee chairman Rep. Rob Wittman, R-Va., called the TR-3 delays “unacceptable,” and said it would hurt Air Force squadrons that need the new fighters to replace older, retiring aircraft.
Wittman also quoted an unnamed Air Force official who said of the F-35, “We currently are paying for a great capability, but we’re currently only getting a good capability fielded.”
Pentagon to halt upgraded F-35 deliveries in July amid software woes
By Stephen LoseyJun 12, 08:51 PM
WASHINGTON — The Defense Department will stop accepting some newly built F-35 Joint Strike Fighters beginning next month as delays in upgrading the fighter drag on.
The planned delivery halt of new fighters loaded with Technology Refresh 3 hardware means manufacturer Lockheed Martin may have to store dozens of the planes at its main factory in Fort Worth, Texas, for much of the rest of the year, and perhaps into spring 2024.
The F-35′s Technology Refresh 3 effort — a slate of improvements that aim to give the fighter better displays, computer memory and processing power — was originally due this past April. TR-3 is necessary before the F-35 can receive a more expansive modernization known as Block 4, which will allow the fighter to carry more long-range precision weapons, improve its electronic warfare capability and provide better target recognition.
The TR-3 schedule has slipped considerably, and the F-35 Joint Program Office is now expecting it to arrive no early than this December — and perhaps as late as April 2024, a full year behind schedule.
The F-35 Joint Program Office said in a statement to Defense News that the TR-3 delays will in turn disrupt deliveries, causing new fighters to have to be stored in the meantime.
“Starting later this summer, F-35 aircraft coming off the production line with TR-3 hardware will not be accepted until relevant combat capability is validated in accordance with our users’ expectations,” JPO spokesman Russ Goemaere said in an email. “The JPO and Lockheed Martin will ensure these aircraft are safely and securely stored until [acceptance] occurs.”
Breaking Defense first reported the Defense Department’s plan to not accept new F-35s.
Lockheed is now building F-35s with TR-3 hardware installed, and the first such fighter is expected to come off the production line by the end of July, Goemaere said.
The challenge lies in the TR-3 software and getting the programming to work with the new hardware., he said.
In March, F-35 program executive officer Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt told the House Armed Services subcommittee on tactical air and land forces that the development of TR-3′s hardware had lagged behind and its production started slow, but that it had improved and became reliable.
Software integration, Schmidt said, began late and was proving difficult.
The JPO on Monday said the Defense Department will continue to accept deliveries of fighters with the previous hardware and software known as Technology Refresh 2.
“The government and industry team will continue to work this issue until full resolution is achieved,” Goemaere said.
Lockheed said it remains committed to delivering the first TR-3-enabled F-35 this year.
“Our team is fully dedicated to delivering TR-3 F-35 aircraft and will continue to work with the JPO on software development while maintaining the highest levels of safety and quality,” the company said in a statement to Defense News. “We continue to deliver aircraft in the TR-2 configuration as planned.”
CEO Jim Taiclet this year downplayed the potential for the problems to affect F-35 deliveries. In an April earnings call, after the TR-3 delays were acknowledged to lawmakers, he said the company expected deliveries to be lower than anticipated, but said they would be a “fraction” of total Lockheed’s total deliveries and would have “little to no” effect on the company’s aeronautics revenue.
If the problem is not resolved by the end of the year, perhaps dozens of new F-35s could be undelivered by the end of the year.
Lockheed Martin said in an email to Defense News that it is too early to say how many fighters might be affected, and the company did not say how many F-35s with TR-3 hardware it expects to build this year. The company originally planned to deliver between 147 and 153 total fighters in 2023.
Lockheed on Monday said that it has so far delivered more than 45 F-35s this year, with about 50 more TR-2 F-35s now under construction.
This will be the third time in less than a year that F-35 deliveries have been halted. In September 2022, the Pentagon announced that it had temporarily halted F-35 deliveries after the discovery of a Chinese-sourced alloy had for years been used to make a key magnet in the fighter. Those deliveries resumed in October 2022 after the Pentagon decided the Chinese material did not pose a danger to security or flight safety and issued a waiver.
Pre-delivery acceptance flights were also halted in December, which had the effect of also halting deliveries, due to an engine vibration problem that led to a Dec. 15 mishap involving an F-35B. After a fix was put in place that allowed Lockheed Martin to resume acceptance flights, the Defense Department once again began accepting new F-35s.
In the March hearing, subcommittee chairman Rep. Rob Wittman, R-Va., called the TR-3 delays “unacceptable,” and said it would hurt Air Force squadrons that need the new fighters to replace older, retiring aircraft.
Wittman also quoted an unnamed Air Force official who said of the F-35, “We currently are paying for a great capability, but we’re currently only getting a good capability fielded.”
Pratt & Whitney on track for F135 upgrade design review completion
Pratt & Whitney is on track to complete the F135 Engine Core Upgrade preliminary design review (PDR) and move into the detailed design phase in early 2024.
www.aero-mag.com
GE already has the next gen engine ...Pratt & Whitney on track for F135 upgrade design review completion
Pratt & Whitney is on track to complete the F135 Engine Core Upgrade preliminary design review (PDR) and move into the detailed design phase in early 2024.