Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

and the whole air force operates like this? because when French readiness numbers come up I get a fine speech about "Omnirole" and then I remember the French Air Force does not just operate Rafales, but everything has been designed around them now? Besides if it is all so well and good, I do not know why there is such concern for the numbers at all. and why there are large attempts to improve something that is under such good shape?
very proud of marginal improvements
In fact we're not that concerned about the figures, at least in the Air Force, but MPs and journalists are, for reasons that I'll try to explain.

They haven't read the definition of availability and don't understand the figures. So they write alarmist articles that suit the military well to justify their demands.

The problem for the military is that for years the military budget has served as an adjustment variable for the state budget, always being cut to limit France's deficit, and yet the operational contract has always been fulfilled. So the Ministry of Finance thinks it can cut the army budget without any consequences.

This phenomenon has increased with the arrival of the Rafale, because the Rafale, for example, doesn't need a major overhaul. Its engine is modular, with 21 modules, so any module can be replaced and the engine reassembled in the aircraft, without a test bench, so that it can be used again on a mission. The aircraft is used for 250 hours a year, but can be used for 1,000 hours a year, and even in "surge" mode for 350 hours a month.

This performance is so high that, to a first approximation, we can overlook the aircraft's logistical constraints;
When you buy an aircraft you are buying potential flight hours; 7,500 when the aircraft was brought into service, which have recently increased to 9,000.
  • There are technicians on the ground who can extract real flight hours from this potential.
  • Extraction is solely a function of the available workforce and not the number of aircraft (application of the approximation described above).
In fact, it doesn't matter whether a technician works on one aircraft or another; every time he works 8 hours, he extracts a real flight hour. The limit is that you can't have more than 8 technicians working on the same aircraft at the same time. Moreover, these figures explain why we can't exceed 350 hours in surge mode, because if we assign 8 technicians to a Rafale, for each hour of flight we'll need 8 hours of maintenance carried out by 8 technicians in one hour of time, so the Rafale will be able to fly half-time, and as there are 30 * 24 = 720 hours in a month, that's 360 hours of flight time, but Dassault has only committed to 350 with the Finns, no doubt because of the month of February.

Now, you have to understand the concerns of the French military: in peacetime we manage, but we want the Rafales to last 30 years, so we limit ourselves to extracting 7500/30 = 250 real flying hours per year per aircraft. We've just increased this to 9,000 hours per aircraft, which means that we can now extract 300 real flying hours per year per aircraft, which is what we've been doing gradually since we sold second-hand aircraft to Greece and Croatia.

But suppose there is a war: the number of aircraft will count because there will be attrition:
  • You have X aircraft and Y technicians available on line at all times (which implies a total number of technicians well in excess of Y). If Y/X = 8, as soon as you lose an aircraft you will have surplus technicians who are useless.
  • If, on the other hand, Y/X = 2, you can continue to produce the same number of flights even if you lose 3/4 of your aircraft, because all the technicians can continue to work.
Of course, it's not a question of reducing the number of technicians but of increasing the number of aircraft to achieve this Y/X < 2 ratio, and for that you have to be an alarmist, and some MEPs are well aware of this.
 
US counts the west coast of the US along with Alaska and Hawaii as the "pacific" because they all border the Pacific ocean. its not cheating to look at a map my friend. Airplanes can fly through the air in order to relocate. it seems like science fiction but it is real! even when an airplane is located in California it is still a part of the pacific theatre.
Books are your friend, try reading one from time to time. or at least consult a map.

All that has nothing to do with China.

yes my friend! when you are not ready it is a "deterrent" but when the F-35 is not ready enough it is a helpless paperweight!

very good!! but the nationalist propaganda doesn't stop there!

Nope. Even if India bought 36 F-35s instead, they would still be paperweights.

A jet needs to be operational to act at the very minimum as a deterrent.

Oh no the US lost the race! even the Chinese are barely fielding any of the things the US fields already has been using for decades already!?
We know the Chinese have overtaken the US because the US is already onto the B-21 and NGAD but the Chinese haven't fielded a single stealth bomber ever but already the US is behind! Americans should scrap all B-2s, F-22s and F-35s, Super Hornets and Growlers, B-1s, and thousands of other fighters and just start learning mandarin! it is just so sad because I was under the illusion that the American combat capability mattered but its useless compared to China just building a (copied) airplane and with little combat experience in the key areas that would be needed with engines that are still in development
it just breaks the heart my friend. China is still struggling in many aspects of combat development and even struggles to cope with basic things like indian climate, but one thing is for certain it is now the worlds premier aerial superpower! Sure it doesn't field aircraft in the same quality or of the same quantity as the US, and the US has lots of friends in the region too, and China has its own problems in many ways, but the race is lost. why even 4000 F-35s won't matter now!

J-20s don't mean anything when matched against a handful of Indian Rafales because 36 is just a "deterrent" but one day they will have 200!! sadly, 1700 F-35s won't match up to China. nor will hundreds of F-22s. but even American F-22s are no match for them! of course the Chinese have not yet achieved parity with the US, but the US has already lost!

Thank you for this post random, its really shows just how out of touch you are and the wacky stuff you say. just to go over the rules whatever is the latest is best and all other things are obsolete and doomed, but the rafale is ready despite becoming increasingly old and behind the F-22 and F-35 which the Chinese already surpass. Why don't you make us a little chart with the bestest airplanes on top and the worstest on the bottom so we can understand these weird claims.

The terrain is a great equalizer. The US has a superior air force, but have to fight from faraway islands. India has the inferior air force, but the Chinese cannot use Tibet properly 'cause of physics. Even their ground troops are struggling, never mind fighter jets.
 
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F-35 : l’avion de toutes les contradictions

F-35: the plane of all contradictions

Launched in the early 1990s, what was to become the JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) programme was intended to produce a low-cost multiple fighter capable of meeting all the needs of US forces and their allies. A quarter of a century later, and more than 950 F-35 Lightning IIs have been produced and delivered, Lockheed Martin's fighter is still not fully operational, and has a long list of technical faults and operational limitations, which has not prevented it from flooding the world's fighter aircraft market. Here's a quick look at the aircraft that is the source of all the contradictions.

In a previous article (1), we looked in detail at the F-35's setbacks, and in particular the disastrous management of the aircraft's upgrades, which at the time provoked a veritable outcry from US parliamentarians and certain former programme managers. While the war in Ukraine and rising tensions in the China Sea have quietly silenced most dissenting voices, Lockheed Martin's aircraft has nonetheless experienced several high-profile problems in recent months. In September 2022, deliveries of the F-35 were temporarily halted in order to investigate the presence on board of alloys of Chinese origin. The following month, the much-publicised crash of an F-35B during an acceptance flight led to a halt in deliveries of Pratt & Whitney F135 engines and the grounding of part of the fleet while the offending piece of pipework was identified and replaced.

More importantly, almost none of the issues we raised in 2021 were actually resolved in 2023. This is particularly true of the aircraft's two main refurbishment objectives, Technical refresh 3 (TR-3) and Block 4, which continue to accumulate delays and cost overruns, despite some timid advances, and a few statements that raise hopes as much as concerns.

Imprecise upgrades

After the relative failure of Block 3F, it is now the Block 4 hardware and software standard that should provide the F-35 with all the functionalities - more or less degraded - originally planned for the programme, more than two decades after the aircraft's first flight. On paper, Block 4 will be the first stable and complete version of the aircraft, and should finally provide it with a full anti-ship capability, an extended anti-A2AD capability, the ability to carry nuclear bombs, as well as a significant enhancement of its electronic warfare capabilities.

Continuous capability development and delivery (C2D2)/Block 4 was designed to adopt an agile approach to the incremental development of the F-35. A number of components essential to the future Block 4 are gradually being incorporated into Block 3F production aircraft. From 2023, aircraft produced under lots 15 to 17 should be delivered with the TR-3 structural upgrade, which includes a new cockpit interface, new, more powerful computers, hardware improvements to the electro-optical sensors (EOTS) and even an update to the electronic warfare suite, as early as next year.

In theory, these aircraft will be able to accept the Block 4 software standard without any major modifications, with only two or three weeks downtime, whereas aircraft already delivered with the TR-2 standard will have to undergo a huge (and costly) modernisation programme. But the exact cost and scale of the switch to Block 4 is not yet known. The most optimistic estimates put the cost of converting an aircraft from the TR-2 standard to a TR-3 standard with certain Block 4 functionalities at at least 25 million dollars. However, it seems increasingly clear that the real Block 4, which is not expected before 2029, will be much more ambitious than initially envisaged.

While the initial plan was to equip the entire F-35 fleet with the APG-81 Active Electronic Antenna Radar (AESA), Northrop Grumman announced in January 2023 that it had been selected to develop the APG-85, a new radar based on its APG-81, but whose antenna would incorporate new-generation GaN (gallium nitride) components instead of GaAs (gallium arsenide). This new radar, which could be fitted to TR-3s as early as 2025, will be at the heart of the Block 4 detection and electronic warfare suite. And since GaN components withstand heat much better than GaAs, the temptation will undoubtedly be great to push the new antenna to its limits, imposing greater energy consumption.

This incremental approach, also adopted for the Rafale's F4 standard, is not a bad idea in itself, since it ensures that the aircraft delivered are systematically equipped with the latest technological developments. However, in the case of the F-35, it raises a number of backward compatibility problems. While aircraft delivered from the TR-3 onwards will natively use the ODIN logistics system, older aircraft will have to continue to use the ALIS suite, forcing the air force to juggle with two systems renowned for their complexity and repeated errors. And these problems of double standards could increase in the future, including for hardware components, given that the definitive Block 4 standard is not really set in stone and that, at the same time, the provisions made for the TR-3 are calculated as accurately as possible. This is a recurring problem on the F-35, where the stealth of the airframe systematically means installing new equipment in a fuselage that is already crowded and has an undersized cooling system. This blind incremental approach is responsible for numerous delays and cost overruns, but also tends to limit the retrofit capability of older aircraft.

Is the world's most powerful engine lacking in power?


One of the most symptomatic examples of the problems posed by this approach concerns the re-engining of the F-35. The new engine was not selected until March 2023, to be integrated into the TR-3 with a view to bringing Block 4 into service. The problem is that the TR-3 began flight testing two months earlier, and is due to start being delivered to customers in the summer of 2023 with a standard engine bay, which means that the new engine will have to offer improved performance while retaining the format, interface and inlet airflow of the current engine.

For several years now, those in charge of the aircraft's development have been pointing out that the future Block 4 will be severely lacking in power. That's quite an understatement when you consider that Pratt & Whitney's F135 is the most powerful engine ever fitted to a fighter jet. In reality, the F135 is not necessarily short of thrust, but rather of power generation capacity. What's more, the current F135 heats up enormously, posing real problems for the heat dissipation of the other on-board equipment, which will consume more and more energy as the Blocks go on.

For Block 4, consideration was at one stage given to equipping the F-35 with a new-generation engine from the AETP (Adaptive Engine Transition Programme), which aimed to offer a variable-cycle engine capable of greatly improving the aircraft's range, in addition to solving the problems of heat dissipation and electrical production. In the end, it was decided to opt for a more conservative solution by simply upgrading the existing F135, theoretically allowing greater backward compatibility with the current F-35. In its ECU (Engine core update) version, the F135 should therefore be pushed to the limit to enable full exploitation of the Block 4 standard.

However, this new engine is not expected before 2030, even though the Block 4 is still officially scheduled for 2029. Notwithstanding possible - and very likely - delays, this means that a significant proportion of F-35 Block 4s (whether delivered as such, or retrofitted from TR-2s) will initially be delivered with the old engine. The latter will probably have to operate for at least a few years with degraded systems, pending an eventual change of engine.

Commercial success and foggy pricing policy

Since 2021, and even more so since the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, contracts have been signed with Finland, Switzerland and Poland, while Greece, the Czech Republic, Thailand and Romania have officially expressed an interest in the aircraft. So, despite a programme management that could magnanimously be described as chaotic, the F-35 continues to rack up export contracts. The American stealth fighter can count on flawless communication from Lockheed Martin, which manages to turn the slightest problem into a commercial opportunity. For example, the F-35's low availability and heavy maintenance requirements reduce the number of flying hours available for a given fleet. Not that it matters! In Switzerland, where Lockheed has offered to provide more simulator hours as compensation, the limitation is presented as an excellent way of reducing fuel consumption, pollution and noise pollution.

In other countries, such as Australia, South Korea and the Netherlands, maintaining the initial operational contract simply means ordering additional aircraft, if the F-35s already delivered cannot be made to fly any more. In any case, Lockheed Martin stands to gain. In addition to its builder's baguette, the F-35 is also benefiting greatly from the diplomatic steamroller of the US State Department, which is throwing all its weight behind the new spearhead of the US armed forces in all the markets where it is competing, even if it means crushing other American competitors, such as the Super Hornet. Officially, of course, the F-35 is winning every market thanks to its extraordinary competitiveness. However, this competitiveness raises a number of questions.

Although FMS (Foreign Military Sales) contracts officially prohibit selling at a loss, it seems clear that the F-35 is, at best, offered at cost price on all highly competitive markets. Even if the prices offered contradict the Pentagon's internal figures. In Finland, for example, the F-35 in FMS mode was offered at a much lower price than the Super Hornet, also in FMS mode, with a delta that in no way corresponds to that observed between the F-35A and the Super Hornet purchased for US forces. The Finnish F-35 is 34% cheaper than the Norwegian F-35, even though Oslo is a long-standing partner in the programme.

In fact, when selected against competing aircraft, off-the-shelf F-35s appear to be offered at a relatively contained price, between 80 and 100 million dollars each. Politically, this price tag justifies such purchases in the court of public opinion, but it does not reflect the real cost of the aircraft over its operational life. So, in addition to the $25 million already mentioned for upgrading from the TR-2 standard to the advanced TR-3, modernisation to the full Block 4 standard will require the purchase of an APG-85 radar and an F135 ECU engine, pushing the retrofit bill up to around $50 million. And that's without even mentioning the costs associated with compulsory subscriptions to ALIS and ODIN services or threat libraries. Knowing that some of the first Blocks cannot be modernised, we can imagine that several operators will have no choice but to order new aircraft.

With the development of Block 4 still in its infancy, the future of the F-35 seems hard to foresee. If Block 4 is developed in the same way as the previous standards, there is every reason to be seriously concerned about the possibility of retrofitting the 2,000 or so aircraft that will have been delivered between now and the advent of this new standard. The risk, therefore, is that the world's F-35 fleet will be divided into two categories, with on the one hand a basic F-35, equipped with the basic engine and radar, but with a stabilised system, and on the other a full-option F-35, natively equipped with the new engine, allowing full exploitation of the latest hardware and software advances. Ironically, if it comes down to it, it is the aircraft's first export customers, long-standing members of the JSF programme, who could be the least well off.
 
ANd to go in the same way than the article above, we have the figures for the number of Australian f-35 hours for FY22/23: 7388 hours for 14000 hours targeted in the PAES 2020-2021. It should be noted that even in the PAES 22-23 the target was still 8800 hours. That's to show how complicated it is to plan anything with the F-35 in operational terms.



 
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ANd to go in the same way than the article above, we have the figures for the number of Australian f-35 hours for FY22/23: 7388 hours for 14000 hours targeted in the PAES 2020-2021. It should be noted that even in the PAES 22-23 the target was still 8800 hours. That's to show how complicated it is to plan anything with the F-35 in operational terms.



2022-2023: 7388 2023-2024: 12500 with "F-35A Forward Estimate figures are based on maturing understanding of F-35A within the Air Combat Program" :ROFLMAO:
 
Is it that time of year again?

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last year it was devisation becuase hours were cut..this year they aren't flying the hours they can if they want to. As per the chart above, there are excess hours allocated for most aircraft

Before that, in February 2022, budget estimates documents filed by the Australian Department of Defense (DoD) revealed that RAAF’s F-35 Lightning II aircraft would spend less time in the air over the next four years than previously expected, igniting a national debate on the aircraft’s capability and viability.

Flying hours of the F-35 have been revised by 25% in the 2021-22 financial year (FY22) and are slated to be cut down by 17% in FY23, 14% in FY24, and 13% in FY25.

What is funny is that the F-35 is being deployed and actually increased hours from 3096 to 7388

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last year it was devisation becuase hours were cut..this year they aren't flying the hours they can if they want to. As per the chart above, there are excess hours allocated for most aircraft

Before that, in February 2022, budget estimates documents filed by the Australian Department of Defense (DoD) revealed that RAAF’s F-35 Lightning II aircraft would spend less time in the air over the next four years than previously expected, igniting a national debate on the aircraft’s capability and viability.

Flying hours of the F-35 have been revised by 25% in the 2021-22 financial year (FY22) and are slated to be cut down by 17% in FY23, 14% in FY24, and 13% in FY25.

What is funny is that the F-35 is being deployed and actually increased hours from 3096 to 7388
The first F-35s were due to arrive in Australia at the end of 2018 and the first operational squadron was scheduled for 2020 - 2021, so the ramp-up from 3096 hours to 14519 hours was normal, but instead we only had 7388 hours.
 
The first F-35s were due to arrive in Australia at the end of 2018 and the first operational squadron was scheduled for 2020 - 2021, so the ramp-up from 3096 hours to 14519 hours was normal, but instead we only had 7388 hours.
Of course it was 'normal'..I was showing how the numbers can be taken out of context. Remember the doom and gloom when the budgeted hours were reduced? Only to have RAAF say the the F-35 is doing all it is asked of. Do we need to put up that link again?

"Flying hours of the F-35 have been revised by 25% in the 2021-22 financial year (FY22) and are slated to be cut down by 17% in FY23, 14% in FY24, and 13% in FY25."
 
Poor Rafale fanboys. They are really devastated that The Rafale F4.2 upgrade is being cut back and what was planned is now on the scrap heap. They are keeping it a secret what has been deleted.

So they try to make up a story about Australia, where there isn't one.

Australia, first it's bad news because they reduced the estimated budget hours.
Now it's bad news because they didn't use all their estimated hours.

RAAF say they were happy before and they are happy now. They have recently put a squadron up north and are working out CONOPS.
I think we have 54-57 F-35 delivered and used 7388 hr or 130-137 hours each.
 
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What is funny is that the F-35 is being deployed and actually increased hours from 3096 to 7388
What is funny is that for 20-21 8204 hours were planned with 42 F-35. And that in 2022-23 only 7000 are made with 60 aircrafts. That's truly amazing :ROFLMAO:

Each rafale can fly more than 3 F-35.
Each rafale can carry more than 1,5 time more weapons than F-35 even in beast configuration. We can consider that rafale is 4,5 more efficient than f-35 for ground attack configuration.
In Recco mode with very few weapons and a Recco POD, one rafale can stay two time longer in the air than F-35. We can consider that rafale is 6 times more efficient than F-35 in this mode. Not even considering how best the RECCE Pod is to F-35 EOTS.
 
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In an omnirole mission one rafale is enough when 4 f-35 are needed. We can say than rafale is 8 times more efficient than F-35.
 

To maintain the paintwork on 63 F-35s, Australia needs 750 direct and indirect employees, whereas to build and maintain more than 500 Rafales, France needs 7,000 direct and indirect employees. Is it just me who is shocked by this?

Over the subsequent three decades, the ongoing sustenance and enhancements orchestrated at Newcastle Airport are forecasted to facilitate the creation of up to 750 direct and indirect employment opportunities throughout Australia.
 
To maintain the paintwork on 63 F-35s, Australia needs 750 direct and indirect employees, whereas to build and maintain more than 500 Rafales, France needs 7,000 direct and indirect employees. Is it just me who is shocked by this?
Keep reading..We are making money. You know that Australia is a major F-35 hub, in this, engines and other stuff don't you?
"“The new coating facility will support the maintenance of other F-35A fleets operating in the Indo-Pacific, transforming Newcastle Airport into a future regional hub,” the government added."
 
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Keep reading..We are making money. You know that Australia is a major F-35 hub, in this, engines and other stuff don't you?
"“The new coating facility will support the maintenance of other F-35A fleets operating in the Indo-Pacific, transforming Newcastle Airport into a future regional hub,” the government added."
I'd love to see the business plan :love:
 
In fact we're not that concerned about the figures, at least in the Air Force, but MPs and journalists are, for reasons that I'll try to explain.

They haven't read the definition of availability and don't understand the figures. So they write alarmist articles that suit the military well to justify their demands.

The problem for the military is that for years the military budget has served as an adjustment variable for the state budget, always being cut to limit France's deficit, and yet the operational contract has always been fulfilled. So the Ministry of Finance thinks it can cut the army budget without any consequences.

This phenomenon has increased with the arrival of the Rafale, because the Rafale, for example, doesn't need a major overhaul. Its engine is modular, with 21 modules, so any module can be replaced and the engine reassembled in the aircraft, without a test bench, so that it can be used again on a mission. The aircraft is used for 250 hours a year, but can be used for 1,000 hours a year, and even in "surge" mode for 350 hours a month.

This performance is so high that, to a first approximation, we can overlook the aircraft's logistical constraints;
When you buy an aircraft you are buying potential flight hours; 7,500 when the aircraft was brought into service, which have recently increased to 9,000.
  • There are technicians on the ground who can extract real flight hours from this potential.
  • Extraction is solely a function of the available workforce and not the number of aircraft (application of the approximation described above).
In fact, it doesn't matter whether a technician works on one aircraft or another; every time he works 8 hours, he extracts a real flight hour. The limit is that you can't have more than 8 technicians working on the same aircraft at the same time. Moreover, these figures explain why we can't exceed 350 hours in surge mode, because if we assign 8 technicians to a Rafale, for each hour of flight we'll need 8 hours of maintenance carried out by 8 technicians in one hour of time, so the Rafale will be able to fly half-time, and as there are 30 * 24 = 720 hours in a month, that's 360 hours of flight time, but Dassault has only committed to 350 with the Finns, no doubt because of the month of February.

Now, you have to understand the concerns of the French military: in peacetime we manage, but we want the Rafales to last 30 years, so we limit ourselves to extracting 7500/30 = 250 real flying hours per year per aircraft. We've just increased this to 9,000 hours per aircraft, which means that we can now extract 300 real flying hours per year per aircraft, which is what we've been doing gradually since we sold second-hand aircraft to Greece and Croatia.

But suppose there is a war: the number of aircraft will count because there will be attrition:
  • You have X aircraft and Y technicians available on line at all times (which implies a total number of technicians well in excess of Y). If Y/X = 8, as soon as you lose an aircraft you will have surplus technicians who are useless.
  • If, on the other hand, Y/X = 2, you can continue to produce the same number of flights even if you lose 3/4 of your aircraft, because all the technicians can continue to work.
Of course, it's not a question of reducing the number of technicians but of increasing the number of aircraft to achieve this Y/X < 2 ratio, and for that you have to be an alarmist, and some MEPs are well aware of this.
my friend I hear, but the problem that I see is that when the Americans do the same things; you and your friends cry "foul" and don't apply the same reasonability as the above post. when the American commander in the Pacific says "We need more airplanes or we die against China!" or they say "we need block IV F-35! or we die!" That is the same "scare tactics" are being employed. and often the same "panic" the americans too can say:

"In fact we're not that concerned about the figures, at least in the Air Force, but MPs and journalists are, for reasons that I'll try to explain.

They haven't read the definition of availability and don't understand the figures. So they write alarmist articles that suit the military well to justify their demands."

that is same thing happening with the F-35. The frontline F-35s are meeting their readiness objectives thanks to the DOT&E report that states this. but my friend, tomorrow Randomrandio will post something that says "50 percent readiness in F-35!" and I'm sure your friend herciv will do the same thing with his invented cost numbers. but of course the 50 percent readiness is taking every F-35 flying including all the training and all the testing F-35s. The frontline squadrons are getting much better readiness. they post the MP and journalists still don't they? There is clearly two stories being told. journalists and politicians say "F-35 bad" and then they keep buying and making and selling F-35. I wonder my friend when the difference between words and actions will finally be realized, but until herciv learns to read, it probably will not happen. Can you calmly explain it to him in one of your personal messagings in French?

have you explained it to your friends yet? they reacted to your posts so they must see what you say. Why is it a "ploy" when the french do it, but the truth is different! its secretly much better than what journalists say! but when the Americans so the same things it is take as literal truth? Why is one group judged in way and another group the other way? do random and your french friends know better and just say it anyway? or are they truly ignorant and in need of your help and teachings? you are clearly their leader, why are they such a mess?
 
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In an omnirole mission one rafale is enough when 4 f-35 are needed. We can say than rafale is 8 times more efficient than F-35.
How does that kool-aide taste my friend?


To maintain the paintwork on 63 F-35s, Australia needs 750 direct and indirect employees, whereas to build and maintain more than 500 Rafales, France needs 7,000 direct and indirect employees. Is it just me who is shocked by this?
"Over the subsequent three decades, the ongoing sustenance and enhancements orchestrated at Newcastle Airport are forecasted to facilitate the creation of up to 750 direct and indirect employment opportunities throughout Australia."

it is often hard to tell if the French are illiterates, or if they understand completely what they read and ignore reality to advance an agenda. It must not be a coincidence ; it is always the same people.
This is an F-35 and F-22 thread but the French cannot resist coming in and making it all about the Rafale because they are small and petty and can't stand the F-35 beating them. since the F-35 wins, they must find any reason to salvage some kind of victory and we find ourselves going over the most insignificant minutia in order to pull something positive away from their humiliations. The belgians F-16s will use thales helmet sights, this is brought into an F-22 and F-35 for no other reason than an attempt to troll. Meanwhile the Belgians are buying F-35s, not Rafales which will replace the F-16s anyway but desperation is a powerful thing and destroys judgement. see the 1:4 F-35 ratio above!! lies must at least be somewhat believable! :ROFLMAO:


Poor Rafale fanboys. They are really devastated that The Rafale F4.2 upgrade is being cut back and what was planned is now on the scrap heap. They are keeping it a secret what has been deleted.

So they try to make up a story about Australia, where there isn't one.

this is sad my friend. I notice these stories continue at a constant

Indeed...

Rafales have to fly more because they are harder to learn, less user friendly and more complex. 2 engines vs 1 engine. old cockpit vs new cockpit, old 4th generation sensors vs modern sensors. a Rafale must fly more than an F-35 to achieve competency. you are convinced this is virtue F-35s do more, and need to fly less which is the entire purpose and also why you lose abroad. my friend, you would rather get french cheers from flight hours than win contracts selling to people who don't want to pay so much for so many flying hours! look at swiss! You are on the wrong end of history. its like a swordsman telling a machine gunner how many hundreds of hours go into creating a good swordsman. meanwhile machine gun is easy to use, mastered in fewer hours and more efficient. You keep trying to sell swords to countries looking for buying guns.
 
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