Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[randomradio]

this is the good kind of out of control spending and risky development to counter China, while previously the F-35 employed the bad kind of out of control spending and risky development to counter China. totally different.

if GE jam an ATEP into an F-35 because China-- costs don't matter? even though the majority of F-35s are arrayed in the pacific theater already? The first operational F-35 unit arrived in Japan back in 2017 my friend.

The majority of F-35s are in the US and Europe.

It's important for the US to have this new engine, the others within NATO don't have to bother. It will show up as an upgrade option after 2035 anyway.

And I told you already, you are the one arguing about cost. My argument is whether it's cheaper or not is irrelevant, it's not ready, and it won't be ready to fight Russia or China until B4 is available.

The most expensive fighter in an air force is the one that cannot be used against an enemy.

You wanna argue about cost, we can do that only after 2030. Today, all we can say for sure is the F-35's costs were calculated based on flight hours 20% less that its competition using unstable prices. Whether that's cheap or expensive, who cares... The only thing that matters is if it can fight China, and the US doesn't think so. Until the USAF certifies the jet, it's a very expensive or a very cheap paperweight, depending on your opinion. Or you can use it to prop open the hangar door. Lots of uses for deadweight.

 

[BMD]

F-35B Just Touched Down On The Old Pacific Coast Highway

The USMC is developing a playbook to use its F-35Bs from improvised areas and to work with other services to better fight at the forward edge.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Panzerjager]

The majority of F-35s are in the US and Europe.

US is considered a part of the pacific theater. the US is divided into Atlantic Fleet and Pacific Fleet the generally speaking the Pacific fleet is 2 out of every 3 portions of the Navy and 2 out of every 3 portions of the US marines. the west coast of the United States is the start of the pacific theater and Hawaii is in the pacific theater, and Alaska is the pacific command to

It's important for the US to have this new engine, the others within NATO don't have to bother. It will show up as an upgrade option after 2035 anyway.

And I told you already, you are the one arguing about cost. My argument is whether it's cheaper or not is irrelevant, it's not ready, and it won't be ready to fight Russia or China until B4 is available.

The most expensive fighter in an air force is the one that cannot be used against an enemy.

You wanna argue about cost, we can do that only after 2030. Today, all we can say for sure is the F-35's costs were calculated based on flight hours 20% less that its competition using unstable prices. Whether that's cheap or expensive, who cares... The only thing that matters is if it can fight China, and the US doesn't think so. Until the USAF certifies the jet, it's a very expensive or a very cheap paperweight, depending on your opinion. Or you can use it to prop open the hangar door. Lots of uses for deadweight.

If the US doesn't think F-35 can fight China they would not deploy them to the pacific theater at all? you continue to confuse "not block 4" with "harmless" which is funny when we remember that even you say the F-35 has key advantages over any other current aircraft. If an F-35 is doomed against China, what chance does an F-15, F-16 or F-18 have? why bother at all? or do we understand that thing are not so black and white as "Block 4 or nothing"

in the end, it is an arms race once Block 4 is here, block five is next:

The US just put China on notice with F-35s in the Pacific — but China may be ready with a counter punch

China has a few surprises of its own.

www.businessinsider.com

INDOPACOM Boss Wants the Air Force to Base Fifth-Gen Fighters Closer to China | Air & Space Forces Magazine

INDOPACOM commander Adm. John Aquilino said he would like the Air Force to base F-35 or F-22 fighters west of the international date line.

www.airandspaceforces.com

my friend I will use the commander of the pacific fleets words "are we ready? yes. Could we be more ready? yes" that is the status of the F-35, just like the rest of the military. you seem to think F-35s are deployed in the pacific so they can be paperweights or to run away? Australia, ROKAF, US, Japan all have F-35s in the pacific. if there is a war they will not sit back and wait to be conquered. I do not know why this is such a difficult thing to understand. actions speak louder than words, the US is stationing a lot of F-35s in the pacific this adds to the F-35s already used by countries I mentioned and not to mention the UK and any others that would join in. its not so they can be "deadweight"... such a shame you are not in american military. Tell them to buy 36 Rafale and be ready to take on all of china because French posters say so! if the only thing that matters is that the F-35 can "fight China" it can do that, and it would only continue to get better. The additional blocks only improve the F-35. even you tell us it has key advantages over other fighters? and stop using the "US doesn't think so" there are people in India who think the Rafale is a giant mistake i don't say "india doesn think so!"

I cannot wait until magic certification process complete. USAF bless F-35 with magic computer test. Magic computer says "you can win against china now!" oh thank you magic computer! Missiles and bombs and guns and electronics were pretend until magic computer say so. airplane just paperweight but now magic computer changes everything! also magic computer knows all Chinese capabilities and can replicate them perfectly just like real war! once Magic computer says "you win against china" then it is finished and decided. Wars are like that. They do what the computer say! Computer says Ukraine conquered in 72 hours-- and just like real life!!

makes so much since!! Can't accurately predict or model what an F-35 costs until 2030? Can accurately model Chinese capability with 64 unit JSE test! magic computer so useful, we use JSE test for other aircraft-- just kidding! no we do not. Other airplanes not blessed by magic computer. but no difference! just as ready!!

 

[Panzerjager]

As I said, the F-35 is the best fighter in the world, it is better than the Rafale, but only on paper. In reality it's vapourware. Today, it is just a 4th gen jet with stealth. That still gives it an enourmous advantage because passive stealth is still a few more years away from being defeated. But mano-a-mano, the Rafale will lose against the F-35 9 out of 10 times 'cause of stealth, until radar tech catches up.

Block 3F basically combines passive stealth with more advanced avionics, so by default it's better. But a lot of its capabilities are still locked away. It's like a video game in alpha testing or a movie in pre-production.

Until the USAF certifies the jet, it's a very expensive or a very cheap paperweight, depending on your opinion. Or you can use it to prop open the hangar door. Lots of uses for deadweight.

oh boy oh boy! what will he say next, folks?! make it make since, my friend!

 

[Innominate]

When F-35's are in blk 4 and the US says the F-35 needs blk 5 to fight China 2040 duh-radio will once again tells us how the F-35 is useless against China without blk 5, which is why NGAD was built. He'll keep doing this until you get tired of responding to his crap and once you do that it's a win for him and his monkeys that cheer him on... at least that is what he'll say to himself.

 

[randomradio]

US is considered a part of the pacific theater. the US is divided into Atlantic Fleet and Pacific Fleet the generally speaking the Pacific fleet is 2 out of every 3 portions of the Navy and 2 out of every 3 portions of the US marines. the west coast of the United States is the start of the pacific theater and Hawaii is in the pacific theater, and Alaska is the pacific command to



If the US doesn't think F-35 can fight China they would not deploy them to the pacific theater at all? you continue to confuse "not block 4" with "harmless" which is funny when we remember that even you say the F-35 has key advantages over any other current aircraft. If an F-35 is doomed against China, what chance does an F-15, F-16 or F-18 have? why bother at all? or do we understand that thing are not so black and white as "Block 4 or nothing"

in the end, it is an arms race once Block 4 is here, block five is next:

The US just put China on notice with F-35s in the Pacific — but China may be ready with a counter punch

China has a few surprises of its own.

www.businessinsider.com

INDOPACOM Boss Wants the Air Force to Base Fifth-Gen Fighters Closer to China | Air & Space Forces Magazine

INDOPACOM commander Adm. John Aquilino said he would like the Air Force to base F-35 or F-22 fighters west of the international date line.

www.airandspaceforces.com

my friend I will use the commander of the pacific fleets words "are we ready? yes. Could we be more ready? yes" that is the status of the F-35, just like the rest of the military. you seem to think F-35s are deployed in the pacific so they can be paperweights or to run away? Australia, ROKAF, US, Japan all have F-35s in the pacific. if there is a war they will not sit back and wait to be conquered. I do not know why this is such a difficult thing to understand. actions speak louder than words, the US is stationing a lot of F-35s in the pacific this adds to the F-35s already used by countries I mentioned and not to mention the UK and any others that would join in. its not so they can be "deadweight"... such a shame you are not in american military. Tell them to buy 36 Rafale and be ready to take on all of china because French posters say so! if the only thing that matters is that the F-35 can "fight China" it can do that, and it would only continue to get better. The additional blocks only improve the F-35. even you tell us it has key advantages over other fighters? and stop using the "US doesn't think so" there are people in India who think the Rafale is a giant mistake i don't say "india doesn think so!"

I cannot wait until magic certification process complete. USAF bless F-35 with magic computer test. Magic computer says "you can win against china now!" oh thank you magic computer! Missiles and bombs and guns and electronics were pretend until magic computer say so. airplane just paperweight but now magic computer changes everything! also magic computer knows all Chinese capabilities and can replicate them perfectly just like real war! once Magic computer says "you win against china" then it is finished and decided. Wars are like that. They do what the computer say! Computer says Ukraine conquered in 72 hours-- and just like real life!!

makes so much since!! Can't accurately predict or model what an F-35 costs until 2030? Can accurately model Chinese capability with 64 unit JSE test! magic computer so useful, we use JSE test for other aircraft-- just kidding! no we do not. Other airplanes not blessed by magic computer. but no difference! just as ready!!

You can't wish away hard facts.

As for the Pacific, INDOPACOM is only 375000 strong out of 1.3 million personnel. They don't have the strength you think you claim. Just the other day, the USAF was complaining about insufficient forces to deal with China.

 

[randomradio]

oh boy oh boy! what will he say next, folks?! make it make since, my friend!

My earlier post was in reference to the F-35, using its working passive stealth, defeating 4th gen designs without equivalent stealth and cooperative techniques. You forget the Chinese have passive stealth too.

 

[randomradio]

When F-35's are in blk 4 and the US says the F-35 needs blk 5 to fight China 2040 duh-radio will once again tells us how the F-35 is useless against China without blk 5, which is why NGAD was built. He'll keep doing this until you get tired of responding to his crap and once you do that it's a win for him and his monkeys that cheer him on... at least that is what he'll say to himself.

It's a 20-year cycle. In the first one, there's the F-35 B4 with all the new hardware like GaN, the next one will be whatever is important in the 2040s, could be photonics or even quantum.

Rafale's the same. The first cycle gave the F3 and F3+, the next one is the F5.

Anyway, it's the USAF saying they need B4 to fight China, not me.

NGAD is a different discussion.

See, the other guy said make it make sense, so I have to dumb down my posts for you guys.

 

[Herciv]

F-35 in a bad day against Rafale in WVR fight :

https://zupimages.net/up/23/31/51qc.jpg

 

[Innominate]

F-35 in a bad day against Rafale in WVR fight :

23/31/51qc.jpg - Visionneuse Zupimages

zupimages.net

Lol. You might want to take a closer look at the pic, sunshine.


Btw Rafale had a bay day against F-18 with two drop tanks in WVR fight.

See what I did there?

 

[Rajput Lion]

F-35 in a bad day against Rafale in WVR fight :

https://zupimages.net/up/23/31/51qc.jpg

Even though pilot makes the biggest difference in WVR HOBS or guns only fight, chances of F-35 coming on top versus Rafale is literally zilch...nada...nil.

Rafale in a capable hands would dance around F-35 all day long without much muster. F-35 should just stick with BVR and lob AMRAAMS from far and go home.

 

[Herciv]

My bad its a f-22

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

Read more: France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

France is gunning for another major warplane deal with Qatar. News surfaced in July that Doha may purchase 24 additional Rafale fighters, a contract potentially worth around $6 billion. This comes as Middle East states have lined up to buy the French warplane over rival US-made F-35s, which is seeing regional customers helping fuel France’s record arms exports. That’s threatening the dominance of US defense contractors in the Middle East as Washington’s relations fray with traditional allies, which are seeking to diversify their weapons suppliers. The frontlines of that rivalry may soon shift to Saudi Arabia, a market where the United States commands 78% of arms imports. France now looks poised for more defense dealmaking in the kingdom amid President Emmanuel Macron’s charm offensive with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, which in June 2023 produced a new Airbus joint venture to produce military helicopters in the Gulf country.

 

[randomradio]

France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

Read more: France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

France is gunning for another major warplane deal with Qatar. News surfaced in July that Doha may purchase 24 additional Rafale fighters, a contract potentially worth around $6 billion. This comes as Middle East states have lined up to buy the French warplane over rival US-made F-35s, which is seeing regional customers helping fuel France’s record arms exports. That’s threatening the dominance of US defense contractors in the Middle East as Washington’s relations fray with traditional allies, which are seeking to diversify their weapons suppliers. The frontlines of that rivalry may soon shift to Saudi Arabia, a market where the United States commands 78% of arms imports. France now looks poised for more defense dealmaking in the kingdom amid President Emmanuel Macron’s charm offensive with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, which in June 2023 produced a new Airbus joint venture to produce military helicopters in the Gulf country.

Tapping the ME market is boring. More profitable, but all these countries will also eventually buy the F-35.

 

[Bon Plan]

When F-35's are in blk 4 and the US says the F-35 needs blk 5 to fight China 2040 duh-radio will once again tells us how the F-35 is useless against China without blk 5, which is why NGAD was built. He'll keep doing this until you get tired of responding to his crap and once you do that it's a win for him and his monkeys that cheer him on... at least that is what he'll say to himself.

My opinion for at least 5 years is that F35 will never be war ready.
Weapon system far too complex from the first standart. When they fix a bug, another 2 appear. Or to completely re write the soft....

 

[Panzerjager]

You can't wish away hard facts.

As for the Pacific, INDOPACOM is only 375000 strong out of 1.3 million personnel. They don't have the strength you think you claim. Just the other day, the USAF was complaining about insufficient forces to deal with China.

indeed you can't wash away hard facts! which is why you shifted the argument from the disproportional number of F-35s in the Pacific vs the Atlantic and instead are now talking about personnel numbers!! There are more F-35s in the pacific which is what I said. why did I say that?


because you keep assuring me that the F-35 can't fight China but the US has been sending them this entire time all along and specifically to counter China. You still have not learned my friend that actions are louder than words. one would think that at this point it would be obvious but they are not really telling the truth my friend. in fact they are saying multiple things and you pick the one you want to believe!

INDOPACOM is the largest of the commands and the commander is always going to want more firepower, because that is what commanders always want. but there are multiple other commands that also need firepower. If there is a war with China the numbers change because more forces are added. You can look at the americans in 1941 vs 1945. 375,000 is 1 out of every 4 military people... 3.4 in fact but we cannot cut people up my friend. So we have this. I wonder what would be happy for this commander? 1 in 3 in INDOPACOM? 1 in 2? its already very many of people as it is. and it can be expanded when war comes anyway because the US has reach. INDOPACOM is just a US command too. let us not forget Japan, ROK, Australian etc which is also a factor.

My earlier post was in reference to the F-35, using its working passive stealth, defeating 4th gen designs without equivalent stealth and cooperative techniques. You forget the Chinese have passive stealth too.

I don't forget that at all, however you seem to when it comes to the magical 36 Rafale that will take on China with no issues. (other than the issues they already have of course)

Anyway, it's the USAF saying they need B4 to fight China, not me.

They don't want to just "fight china" they want to dominate. The F-35 can fight China right now. Block 4 makes shifts even more in favor of the F-35 and again this is a political game that you struggle to understand.

France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

Read more: France challenges US defense industry in Middle East as Rafale fighter jet sales outshine F-35

France is gunning for another major warplane deal with Qatar. News surfaced in July that Doha may purchase 24 additional Rafale fighters, a contract potentially worth around $6 billion. This comes as Middle East states have lined up to buy the French warplane over rival US-made F-35s, which is seeing regional customers helping fuel France’s record arms exports. That’s threatening the dominance of US defense contractors in the Middle East as Washington’s relations fray with traditional allies, which are seeking to diversify their weapons suppliers. The frontlines of that rivalry may soon shift to Saudi Arabia, a market where the United States commands 78% of arms imports. France now looks poised for more defense dealmaking in the kingdom amid President Emmanuel Macron’s charm offensive with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, which in June 2023 produced a new Airbus joint venture to produce military helicopters in the Gulf country.

The French always said that sales don't mean anything.

My opinion for at least 5 years is that F35 will never be war ready.
Weapon system far too complex from the first standart. When they fix a bug, another 2 appear. Or to completely re write the soft....

I guess you missed your friend pickle oil's post about how the Rafale is "omnirole" and "full missions capable" less than 60 percent of the time. This is with an aircraft the French have had for 20 years and I am assured is not as complex as the F-35 and far more mature. less than 3 out of 5 Rafale are working fully at any given time?
how strange that when an F-35 doesn't work, the French tell me "F-35 doesn't work!" but with the Rafale the (almost!) 60 percent readiness rate for the full "omnirole" Rafale is actually kinda awesome! with a lot of effort they were able to improve French Air Force Rafale from 53 percent to 55 percent. its sad, you would think it would be fixed by now

 

[Panzerjager]

Lol. You might want to take a closer look at the pic, sunshine.


Btw Rafale had a bay day against F-18 with two drop tanks in WVR fight.
View attachment 29435
View attachment 29436



See what I did there?

my friend this cannot be real! A super Hornet!?

 

[Innominate]

my friend this cannot be real! A super Hornet!?

F-18C but still the same. You should see the video of F-18D vs SU-30MKM which is a MKI, rajlion says it can't be beaten in a dogfight the video begs to diffa, yawl.

 

[Optimist]

We use to snot the Malaysian mig 29 with our hornets. They also had hornets, so you'd think the mig pilots had enough practice against hornets.

 

[Optimist]

My bad its a f-22

I don't know why you apologise? You are clueless, of course you can't tell the difference between the F-22 and the F-35. I'm sure someone pointed it out to you. You wouldn't have figured it out by yourself.