What is the answer to the question "what is the real flyaway price of the F35" if you ask ChatGPT ?
This could be funny
This could be funny
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
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My estimate of the price is 3600 million dollars, my calculations are approximate with an error of less than 10% and were made using the information included in these links:
en.wikipedia.org
And by greatly increasing the price of the JSOW-ER which is difficult to find but which is bought in small quantities. We are still quite far from 10000 Million.
The figures on the right represent the price of several lines and are for my own use so as not to forget the result of certain calculations already made.
AGM-88 HARM - Wikipedia
And by greatly increasing the price of the JSOW-ER which is difficult to find but which is bought in small quantities. We are still quite far from 10000 Million.
The figures on the right represent the price of several lines and are for my own use so as not to forget the result of certain calculations already made.
- eight hundred two (802) AIM-120C8 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); 1941
- sixteen (16) AIM-120C8 AMRAAM guidance sections spares;
- two thousand four (2,004) MK-82 500LB General Purpose (GP) Bombs;
- seventy-two (72) MK-82 Inert 500LB GP Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) MK-84 2,000LB GP Bombs;
- one thousand two (1,002) MK-83 1,000LB GP Bombs;
- two thousand five hundred (2,500) Small Diameter Bomb Increment 1 (SDB-1), GBU-39/B, with CNU-659/E Container; 650
- eight (8) GBU-39 SDB-1 Guided Test Vehicles;
- two thousand (2,000) KMU-572 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Tail Kit for 500LB Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) KMU-556 JDAM Tail Kit for 2,000LB Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) KMU-559 JDAM Tail Kit for 1,000LB Bombs;
- four thousand (4,000) FMU-139 Fuze systems;
- six hundred fifty (650) AGM-154C Joint Stand Off Weapons (JSOWs); 500
- fifty (50) AGM-154E Joint Stand Off Weapons – Extended Range (JSOW-ER);
- one hundred fifty (150) AGM-88E Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM) Tactical Missiles; 131
- six (6) CATM-88 AARGM CATMs.
- Also included are six (6) JSOW-C AGM-154C Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs);
- six (6) JSOW-ER AGM-154E CATMs;
- ARD 446-1B and ARD 863-1A1W Impulse Cartridges;
- JSOW-C Dummy Air Training Missiles (DATM);
- JSOW-C Captive Flight Vehicles (CFVs);
- JSOW-ER DATMs;
- JSOW-ER CFVs;
- PGU-23/U training ammunition, encryption devices and keying equipment for test missiles (not for export);
- Laser Illuminated Target Detector, DSU-38A/B;
- software delivery and support;
- AIM-120C Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM) and Airborne Instrumented Units (AIU) Telemetry Sections;
- missile containers;
- munitions components;
- aircraft test and integration support;
- containers;
- mission planning;
- munitions security, storage and training;
- facility design, construction and quality standards;
- weapon operational flight program software development;
- transportation;
- tools and test equipment;
- support equipment;
- spare and repair parts;
- weapons and aircraft integration support and test equipment;
- publications and technical documentation;
- personnel training and training equipment, devices and software;
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services;
- site surveys; and other related elements of logistics and program support.
i do not know what to say. I think "I try it myself. "
Look for LM "not saying" such things. Find LM saying such things. very clear. others say the same.
I look for FBW problem in Utah crash report. no problem with FBW. even herciv post says FBW working! ok herciv!
I look for Japan crash. Spatial awareness loss. Very sad. but no mayday, no ejection, speaking to control tower second before crash with no distress. no sign of mechanical failure. pilot error right into the sea. very sad but if aircraft problem airplane does not go "gently" pilot call out problem
herciv say both are FBW problem?? I look. I even read herciv post. Herciv post say "no FBW" I read report. report says "first time in 600,000 flying hours this happen. never before. never sense.
herciv says "this could be 2nd time!" I cannot even find the first. pickleoil (much aviation engineer wow!) agree with herciv, and herciv agree with pickleoil. pickleoil is experienced airplane man, does not understand simple report on airplane and agrees with herciv on problem that does not exist in report?!
I try. I look. I can't see. I look at Canada very much. I look at DSCA for Germany. I check and recheck. I read more reports. I check government website. I read more reports from other people who investigate F-35. I do not see what herciv says is there. even in optimist post he quotes LM person. LM person specifies not flyaway cost. read article.
herciv cannot read. herciv misread. causes himself confusion. Then declares great mystery! such confusion! gives himself unsolvable puzzle by ignoring obvious. others say "no herciv, this is not what you said earlier" herciv declares himself Hercule Poirot! "catches" LM using open source government contract sight that only confirms payment and contract.
DOT&E Watchdog group! say:
"Testing Completed To Date The F-35 is nearing the end of a multi-year initial operational test and evaluation (IOT&E) program. To date, the test team has completed: cold-weather trials; actual weapons employment, which included bombs and missiles; cybersecurity testing of air vehicle components and the Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); deployments to ships and austere environments; and testing that compared F-35 performance to that of fourth-generation fighters against traditional and more contemporary threats currently used by our adversaries. Open-air test missions evaluated the roles of offensive and defensive counter-air, including: cruise missile defense; suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses (S/DEAD); offensive counter air; reconnaissance; electronic attack; close air support; forward air control airborne; strike control and armed reconnaissance; combat search and rescue; anti-surface warfare; and air-to-surface attack, in higher-threat environments, in two-, four- and eight-aircraft missions. During the S/DEAD trials, the F-35 faced robust, realistic surface-to-air threats represented by Radar Signal Emulators (RSEs).
The only remaining element of the IOT&E program is 64 trials in the Joint Simulation Environment at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland. These trials will include all three variants."
Pickleoil say "LM inventing tests!" pickleoil and herciv unknown about DOT&E. do not realize DOT&E watch all test. report for all tests. assess all tests etc etc.
I have a simple strategy. I read there posts. I remember there posts. and then I wait for next post that makes last lie obvious. then they get to choose. what happened in UAE? no contract, F-35 too much $$$ UAE insulted. now pic says "oh wait actually they did sign contract!" what?!
This comes from too low a level to be raised,
Yet it was clear that the reaction I reported was induced by the Finnish contract price of 10 December 2021, whereas the signature I reported was of 22 January 2021 11 months earlier!
On the other hand, the UAE told the US that it was suspending discussions on the F-35 on 14 December 2021, 4 days after the US "success" in Finland.
" The description and dollar value is for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements. Actual dollar value will be lower depending on final requirements, budget authority, and signed sales agreement(s), if and when concluded."My estimate of the price is 3600 million dollars, my calculations are approximate with an error of less than 10% and were made using the information included in these links:
AGM-88 HARM - Wikipedia
And by greatly increasing the price of the JSOW-ER which is difficult to find but which is bought in small quantities. We are still quite far from 10000 Million.
The figures on the right represent the price of several lines and are for my own use so as not to forget the result of certain calculations already made.
- eight hundred two (802) AIM-120C8 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); 1941
- sixteen (16) AIM-120C8 AMRAAM guidance sections spares;
- two thousand four (2,004) MK-82 500LB General Purpose (GP) Bombs;
- seventy-two (72) MK-82 Inert 500LB GP Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) MK-84 2,000LB GP Bombs;
- one thousand two (1,002) MK-83 1,000LB GP Bombs;
- two thousand five hundred (2,500) Small Diameter Bomb Increment 1 (SDB-1), GBU-39/B, with CNU-659/E Container; 650
- eight (8) GBU-39 SDB-1 Guided Test Vehicles;
- two thousand (2,000) KMU-572 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Tail Kit for 500LB Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) KMU-556 JDAM Tail Kit for 2,000LB Bombs;
- one thousand (1,000) KMU-559 JDAM Tail Kit for 1,000LB Bombs;
- four thousand (4,000) FMU-139 Fuze systems;
- six hundred fifty (650) AGM-154C Joint Stand Off Weapons (JSOWs); 500
- fifty (50) AGM-154E Joint Stand Off Weapons – Extended Range (JSOW-ER);
- one hundred fifty (150) AGM-88E Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM) Tactical Missiles; 131
- six (6) CATM-88 AARGM CATMs.
- Also included are six (6) JSOW-C AGM-154C Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs);
- six (6) JSOW-ER AGM-154E CATMs;
- ARD 446-1B and ARD 863-1A1W Impulse Cartridges;
- JSOW-C Dummy Air Training Missiles (DATM);
- JSOW-C Captive Flight Vehicles (CFVs);
- JSOW-ER DATMs;
- JSOW-ER CFVs;
- PGU-23/U training ammunition, encryption devices and keying equipment for test missiles (not for export);
- Laser Illuminated Target Detector, DSU-38A/B;
- software delivery and support;
- AIM-120C Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM) and Airborne Instrumented Units (AIU) Telemetry Sections;
- missile containers;
- munitions components;
- aircraft test and integration support;
- containers;
- mission planning;
- munitions security, storage and training;
- facility design, construction and quality standards;
- weapon operational flight program software development;
- transportation;
- tools and test equipment;
- support equipment;
- spare and repair parts;
- weapons and aircraft integration support and test equipment;
- publications and technical documentation;
- personnel training and training equipment, devices and software;
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services;
- site surveys; and other related elements of logistics and program support.
might have meant something before you changed your mind on the UAE contract (is contract or no?) and the 2 billion dollars in helicopters that never happened.
aw yes. the tried and true tactic of signing the contract and then having discussions!
The US had also signed, but that didn't stop them from suspending the contract and adding conditions. When you do that, you have to expect that the other party will also be called into question, but the Finnish contract was the straw that broke the camel's back.aw yes. the tried and true tactic of signing the contract and then having discussions!
As a result, the Standard 3F (where F stands for Final) is unable to pass all the IOT&E tests as originally planned, and this is the only time the F-35 will meet the real thing because the previous tests, which were development tests, were carried out by the manufacturer and were complacent.
And for you I said "LM inventing tests!"
Development tests are the responsibility of the manufacturer, who does what he wants to ensure that his product complies with the specifications he has signed up to. A lot of tests have been removed by LM on version 3F because they had been carried out on version 2B, which means that non-regression tests are useless.
On the other hand, the IOT&E tests are not defined by L.M. but he is obliged to submit to them by contract, and the 64 tests that are missing are the most complex and those that simultaneously implement several functions that consume limited resources and therefore have the greatest chance of uncovering bugs that have not yet been discovered.
And for you I said "LM inventing tests!"
Development tests are the responsibility of the manufacturer, who does what he wants to ensure that his product complies with the specifications he has signed up to. A lot of tests have been removed by LM on version 3F because they had been carried out on version 2B, which means that non-regression tests are useless.
On the other hand, the IOT&E tests are not defined by L.M. but he is obliged to submit to them by contract, and the 64 tests that are missing are the most complex and those that simultaneously implement several functions that consume limited resources and therefore have the greatest chance of uncovering bugs that have not yet been discovered.
As a result, the Standard 3F (where F stands for Final) is unable to pass all the IOT&E tests as originally planned, and this is the only time the F-35 will meet the real thing because the previous tests, which were development tests, were carried out by the manufacturer and were complacent.
And for you I said "LM inventing tests!"
Development tests are the responsibility of the manufacturer, who does what he wants to ensure that his product complies with the specifications he has signed up to. A lot of tests have been removed by LM on version 3F because they had been carried out on version 2B, which means that non-regression tests are useless.
On the other hand, the IOT&E tests are not defined by L.M. but he is obliged to submit to them by contract, and the 64 tests that are missing are the most complex and those that simultaneously implement several functions that consume limited resources and therefore have the greatest chance of uncovering bugs that have not yet been discovered.
all testing on F-35s is a joint military and civilian operation and overseen by the pentagon DOT&E
"The JOTT at Edwards is part of a joint enterprise that conducts operational test and evaluation of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The unit consists of all U.S. services that will operate the different F-35 variants along with coalition partners such as the United Kingdom and the Netherlands who will also operate the JSF."
civilians, military, international military and civilians. it is impossible for LM to do any of this all by itself even if it wanted to. its a hybrid my friend.
is now the "UOTT"
The UOTT, formed in December 2019, is a joint team comprised of approximately 60 Air Force, Marine Corps, and Navy personnel. The team performs operational test and evaluation on the F-35A, F-35B, and F-35C models, and operates with congressional oversight. As part of AFOTEC and the Navy’s Commander Operational Test and Evaluation Force (COTF), the members of this team conduct testing that delivers unbiased, operational truth about the F-35 platform. This testing ensures the F-35 can meet both the current and future needs of the warfighter.
Unpacking the UAE F-35 Negotiations
In what has become a major test of America’s shift to great power competition, Washington must weigh its desire to maintain a close security partnership with the UAE against Abu Dhabi’s growing ties with China.
their gambit failed. plus no more Trump
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It's a lie since I have showed that what was inked is 32 billion with the TR3 developement.
Contracts for May 2, 2023
Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.
www.defense.gov
And that's only a price by LM then without engine. The engine contract is N0001920C0011 with $5,2 billions for 382 fighters.
For those who want to follow what's the LM price for sustainment (without engine of course) that's here :
N0001921C0020, USAspending.gov
That's more or less $2,3 billion/year
This one is funny.
N0001922C0032
www.usaspending.gov
That's for integration costs directly for FInland for $0,6 billion.
This one is also very funny
www.usaspending.gov
That's for flight test for $0,75 billion.
N0001922C0032
USAspending.gov
This one is also very funny
USAspending.gov
There is also poor herciv. That has gone down the rabbit hole of procurement contracts. That he is unable to understand and sanity is never to be seen again. What new conspiracy is associated to the Finns?
I think they know it is BS. They just cheer his stamina, to repeat the same nonsense over and over again. In some obsessive compulsive loop.
Contracts for May 2, 2023
Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.www.defense.gov
And that's only a price by LM then without engine.
brother, development costs are not "flyaway costs" or manufacturing costs. they "research and development" Development=Development
F4 development for Rafale alone 2.3 billion dollars
is France orders $2.3 billion upgrade for Rafale warplanes
add research costs to the Rafale that have been poured into that program since the 1980s and divide that into the 300 Rafales (??) that have been produced and watch the costs rise dramatically LOL
from website you show: 6.6 billion also contract starts dec 31 2020 end december 30 2026 5 years contract not 3 years. contract has over 4000 entries! "sub award" (scroll down) includes things like fatigue testing, IT support, even something in there about solar panels? money for laptop computers from Hewlett Packard, list is over 4000 items can't even fit it all here. "Sustainment" is not for aircraft directly. sample:
DELL / EMC UNITY 380 XT HYBRID ARRAY
HP ELITEBOOK 840 G7
CISCO CTLYST 9500 - 32 PORT MANGD SWTCH CISCO - POWER SUPPLY - 1600 WATT CISCO QSFP TO SFP ADAPTER CISCO - SFP+ TRANSCVER MODULE - 10 GIGE CISCO SMRT NET TTL CARE - EXT SRV AGRMT HOOK AND LOOP 8 CABLE TIE - BLACK KVM SWTCH USB SVR I/F UNIT HD15 USB RJ45 SEAGATE EXPANSION 4TB HRD DRV - USB 3.0 TRIPP LITE RACK CONSOLE KVM SWTCH 8-PRT
HARD DRIVE 2 TB USB 3.2 GEN 1
CLIN 0920/SUSA21 J0810 TECH DATA
you take everything you can find on the site and say it is cost of airplanes.
as always Post first. read later. HP elite laptop! very nice!!you must trying my friend-- hopefullly before posting! I cannot express importance of reading. Will solve your "great mystery" that you made for yourself.
my friend this is sad.
none of what you claim is happening, while you call others "liars" and actively try to deceive others. it is patently dishonest. herciv once again= do you realize that you are being dishonest and post anyway? or are you truly this slow?
you no realize that development costs are for development?
this is the worst thing since randomradio try to convince us that 105 -110 percent of 6 billion is higher cost than 100 percent of 8 billion. because 8 billion is "Stable"
as already said:
The F135 engine generally consumes about 18-19% of the overall flyaway cost of the F-35A. If that trend remains consistent, the cost of an F-35A ordered in Lot 15 would rise to about $82-83 million each, reflecting a 5-6.5% increase over F-35A flyaway costs in Lot 14. Lockheed says the airframe will cost about $69-70 million each during the new, three-year ordering period.
about 13 million each, if my math is correct-- everyone is in agreement. in fact better deal because there is always more engines than airplanes. (spares) not buying 382, buying even more for 5.2 billion.
that is funny more research ande development that i not included in the cost of aircraft.This one is funny.
N0001922C0032
That's for integration costs directly for FInland for $0,6 billion.USAspending.gov
This one is also very funny
That's for flight test for $0,75 billion.USAspending.gov
AC13: R&D- DEFENSE SYSTEM: AIRCRAFT (ADVANCED DEVELOPMENT)
"THE PURPOSE OF THIS MODIFICATION IS TO AWARD THE SECOND PART OF A NEW FMS CUSTOMER'S INTEGRATION CONTRACT."
FMS contract includes things like "U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support."
I see same link posted two times! Very on brand herciv! post twice= cost twice as much!!
no matter! testing is testing too. not buying cost for airplane. you very great researcher and detective. and how do we know that the finland contract is even "new costs" ?have you tried including the cost of the employees gourmet coffees in "flyaway"?
You are a good friend to herciv. Even when he harms your credibility you stand by him. it is sad that a technical man like yourself suffers for it, but it is kind. I love how you back him on FBW problem even when report say there no FBW problem!
and you say you work for aviation in real life but believe whatever herciv say? He your boss at airplane factory? "thats right sir!" ??? is very hard to believe professional competency when such fools are entertained. I keep hearing about great French company and professionalism. Then I'm subjected to man who cannot read and man from great airplane company always agrees! with whatever crazy thing he say.wait herciv is not buggy AI bot?
you are fooling no one my friend! I saw entries for "Australia" funding in those 4000+ subsets. clearly a made up country that is being used for fraudulent purposes. the "Real cost" (TM) of the F-35 is being "hidden" in "Australia"
fulfilling contract obligations I think.
The F-35 is "not stable" and "does not work" according to you, but the answer is "not price control" and gambling on an engine that has never been tried before? has AETP even been flown in a real airplane? my friend, just say "no" to drugs.
That discussion is different.
It doesn't matter if the F-35 costs $200M after the upgrade, but the engine is necessary to maintain an advantage over China. The current engine is not good enough, it can be used by the export market.
The biggest NATO related contracts are over anyway. Only the US and some future export partners will have room for the new engine.
For the US in particular, the era of controlling prices in lieu of capability is gone. China has the ability to outmatch them.
this is the good kind of out of control spending and risky development to counter China, while previously the F-35 employed the bad kind of out of control spending and risky development to counter China. totally different.
if GE jam an ATEP into an F-35 because China-- costs don't matter? even though the majority of F-35s are arrayed in the pacific theater already? The first operational F-35 unit arrived in Japan back in 2017 my friend.