Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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Planes always turn less well above 12km. Where's your evidence it's worse than a Jaguar? Wing loading and TWR says otherwise, even taking a clean Jaguar. The Rafale also has the same service ceiling and it likely won't top M1.6 with any stores either. The only difference is that it has a lower internal fuel fraction and isn't stealthy and has relatively poor SA.High altitude begins at 12Km. That's not service ceiling.
Unless that is the F-35's service ceiling.
You're comparing the armament of an aircraft in stealth configuration against the armament of planes with no stealth configuration. Your statement on stealth is also garbage.
Both problems have been listed in an article in the previous page.
At extremely high altitudes, the Navy and Marine Corps versions of the F-35 can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time without risking structural damage and loss of its stealth capability, a problem that may make it impossible for the Navy’s F-35C to conduct supersonic intercepts.
“It has random oscillations, pitch and yaw issues above [its] 20-[degree angle of attack]," the aviator said. "[So] if I had to perform the aircraft — if I had to maneuver to defeat a missile, maneuver to fight another aircraft, the plane could have issues moving. And if I turn around aggressively and get away from these guys and use the afterburner, [the horizontal tail and tail boom] start to melt or have issues.”
The Jaguar can sustain supersonic speeds. And can demonstrate high AoA, high G agility in order to dodge missiles.
I am perfectly aware of that fact sir. But the problem is if F35 doesn't fly in stealthy configuration then it has no advantage whatsoever against a 4.5 gen plane. Hence whole logic of buying such an expensive aircraft turn to ashes.
That statement on stealth is not mine but of some of the world's leading aviation experts.
Is it though? let's look at weapons likely used by the RNoAF only, AShMs specifically. If using solely internal stores the payload can be up to one internal cannon, 2 JSM missiles and 2 AMRAAMs, not a high payload by any means surely, but that's in a stealth optimized configuration where the air-frame actually has significantly improved kinematic and economy performance over legacy air-frames like the F-16. Each internal bay can support 1 JSM and an A2A missile.
If stealth isn't a concern the F-35 can be outfitted with 6 JSM - 4 externally, 2 internally - 2 WVRAAM on external hard-points and 2 BVR internally. It's a configuration that'd look like this, just with JSM instead.
An F-16 could at maximum carry 2 JSM, 2 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9s. And F-18E/F could carry 4 JSM, 2 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9.
Given the overall size of the JSM missile, the likely operational configuration for a legacy aircraft like the Super Hornet is going to be similar to that of the air-frame when outfitted with the LRASM - 2 WVRAAM, 2 BVR, 4 AShM.
Both would suffer kinematic and economy penalties while being as stealthy as a Christmas tree.
The air-frame is by no means under armed and compares favorable to other air-frames like the JAS 39 - 4 RBS-15, 2 WVRAAM, 2 BVR.
A Typhoon can carry either 4 RBS-15 or 6 Matre ER while also carrying 2 WVRAAM missiles, but would need to sacrifice weight on the recessed hard-points to carry drop tanks. 3 Harpoon, 4 BVR and 2 WVRAAMs is another configuration that's been explored, but in this the aircraft can not carry drop tanks.
The F-35 has a very comparable payload.
Probably written by Boeing.
A 4.5 gen plane carrying a full load of bombs and drop tanks is in no fit state to defend itself against anything, not even a clean Jaguar. And you are quite wrong, by carrying some of the load internally and some externally and being a general stealth design, the F-35 would still have a lower RCS than an equivalent 4.5 gen plane. It also has a superior radar, SA and EW system. You achieve air superiority with the internal load only, and then you can carry more after.
MoD: First Polish F-35 Jets Expected in 2024, Agreement to be Signed Next Week
MoD: First Polish F-35 Jets Expected in 2024, Agreement to be Signed Next Week
(Source: Defence24 Poland; posted Jan. 23, 2020) (Edited for style)
The first F-35 fighter aircraft that Poland is planning to order would be “ready in 2024”, Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak said in an interview with Polish Radio. He also confirmed that the conclusion of the F-35 acquisition agreement is planned for next week.
The agreement would cover 32 aircraft and the negotiation process has practically been concluded. Błaszczak emphasized the fact that introduction of the F-35 would provide the Polish Air Force with air superiority, comparing its significance to introduction of the F-16 in the early 2000s. When asked about deliveries, he said that Poland should expect the first aircraft to be ready in 2024.
Błaszczak noted that F-35 also brings in reconnaissance and command capabilities as well. He added that acquisition of the type has been made possible thanks to the fact that Poland and the US remain on very good terms. He added that the F-35 procurement is particularly significant within the context of replacing the Polish Air Force’s MiG-29 fighters.
Poland requested acquisition of 32 F-35A multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) in May 2019, with consent issued by the Department of State and by the US Congress in the autumn that year. The maximum value of the deal has been set at the level of $6.5 billion. The final amount is probably going to be lower than that, and unofficial estimates mention approximately $4 billion. The primary FMS agreement does not cover the infrastructure or armament purchases, which would be subject to separate contracts.
As we reported in the past, the MoD decided to skip the offset in its F-35 acquisition. The Ministry says that the above is motivated by savings (amount exceeding 1 billion dollars).
The Polish MoD has also declared Poland’s willingness to join the “Loyal Wingman” UAV programme at the very early stage to secure the potential industrial benefits that this could bring. However, when it comes to the F-35 programme, it is planned that collaboration agreements would be signed according to the business-to-business formula, by and between Polish and US-based entrepreneurs, even though those contracts would have no direct ties to the fighter acquisition.
Lockheed Martin representatives said in Kielce last year, during the MSPO exhibition, that the first four Polish F-35 could be delivered as early as in 2024. However, these would not be sent to Poland, but remain at Luke AFB in Arizona for training.
During the Kielce event it was declared that the first F-35A squadron of the Polish Air Force would become operational by 2026, with the second one reaching the same status by 2030.
MoD: First Polish F-35 Jets Expected in 2024, Agreement to be Signed Next Week
(Source: Defence24 Poland; posted Jan. 23, 2020) (Edited for style)
The first F-35 fighter aircraft that Poland is planning to order would be “ready in 2024”, Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Błaszczak said in an interview with Polish Radio. He also confirmed that the conclusion of the F-35 acquisition agreement is planned for next week.
The agreement would cover 32 aircraft and the negotiation process has practically been concluded. Błaszczak emphasized the fact that introduction of the F-35 would provide the Polish Air Force with air superiority, comparing its significance to introduction of the F-16 in the early 2000s. When asked about deliveries, he said that Poland should expect the first aircraft to be ready in 2024.
Błaszczak noted that F-35 also brings in reconnaissance and command capabilities as well. He added that acquisition of the type has been made possible thanks to the fact that Poland and the US remain on very good terms. He added that the F-35 procurement is particularly significant within the context of replacing the Polish Air Force’s MiG-29 fighters.
Poland requested acquisition of 32 F-35A multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) in May 2019, with consent issued by the Department of State and by the US Congress in the autumn that year. The maximum value of the deal has been set at the level of $6.5 billion. The final amount is probably going to be lower than that, and unofficial estimates mention approximately $4 billion. The primary FMS agreement does not cover the infrastructure or armament purchases, which would be subject to separate contracts.
As we reported in the past, the MoD decided to skip the offset in its F-35 acquisition. The Ministry says that the above is motivated by savings (amount exceeding 1 billion dollars).
The Polish MoD has also declared Poland’s willingness to join the “Loyal Wingman” UAV programme at the very early stage to secure the potential industrial benefits that this could bring. However, when it comes to the F-35 programme, it is planned that collaboration agreements would be signed according to the business-to-business formula, by and between Polish and US-based entrepreneurs, even though those contracts would have no direct ties to the fighter acquisition.
Lockheed Martin representatives said in Kielce last year, during the MSPO exhibition, that the first four Polish F-35 could be delivered as early as in 2024. However, these would not be sent to Poland, but remain at Luke AFB in Arizona for training.
During the Kielce event it was declared that the first F-35A squadron of the Polish Air Force would become operational by 2026, with the second one reaching the same status by 2030.
87.2m flyaway for a FMS customer with drag chutes which is probably a million extra.
Someone wanna tell me the flyaway for the Rafale?
Someone wanna tell me the flyaway for the Rafale?
The only way to compare is if a single country, like Finland, holds a competition and releases some information, like at least which of the two is cheaper.
Otherwise, it's difficult to tell because the French profit margin for export is very high whereas the US charges whatever their own air force pay in FMS. Also, export Rafales do not have the same configuration as export F-35s, which can add to the price considerably since the numbers producured are only in the few dozens.
If I recall, Korea reduced their 60 aircraft purchase to 40 due to budget constraints. And the British offered to sell all 60 Typhoons (54+6) within the budgeted price. And we know for sure that Rafale is cheaper than the Typhoon.
The F-35 was eliminated in Korea due to budget.
F-35 and Eurofighter Eliminated From S. Korea’s FX-III Competition
“South Korea is seeking 45 one-seater aircraft and 15 two-seaters. But EADS proposed only six two-seater aircraft, which are costly to produce, due to budget problems.”
So they proposed 6 two-seats because 15 two-seats exceeds the budget. Whereas the F-35 order was reduced by 20.
Yes for this price you have new F-35A which are cracking due to gun use !
https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa...bjpGUg&usg=AFQjCNE-QOl0i_tg2EAZccRjQEFdgkSHdQ
The problem is that there are 1000 "small" anomalies like this to correct plus 13 major anomalies that should prevent the deployment of the aircraft in operational units.
Another Year and Additional F-35 Complications
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Lockheed Martin could be financially liable to DoD for unmet F-35 SDD requirements
Lockheed Martin could be financially liable to DoD for unmet F-35 SDD requirements | Jane's 360
Lockheed Martin could be financially liable to DoD for unmet F-35 SDD requirements | Jane's 360
A plane's maintenance cost has direct correlation to its purchasing cost so that's good news for the F-35.
Five F-35 issues have been downgraded, but they remain unsolved
www.defensenews.com
What a easy solution ! you can't solve a problem, so you downgrad it !
In french we called that "mettre la poussière sous le tapis" ( put the dust under the carpet )
Five F-35 issues have been downgraded, but they remain unsolved
Five of the 13 major technical issues first revealed by Defense News have been downgraded in the last year.
www.defensenews.com
What a easy solution ! you can't solve a problem, so you downgrad it !
In french we called that "mettre la poussière sous le tapis" ( put the dust under the carpet )