Why do I see the catastrophe of the US education system whenever you write. Can you start a sentence without lol.
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
I can smell you from here.
The F-35 had 336 Points in the evaluation. 2nd best Fighter had 95 Points less. Yikes.
Also interesting, 36 F-35 cots 5.1 billion Fr. At least 2 billion less then the other candidates.
Kampfjet-Entscheid - Amherd: «Wollen kein Steuergeld verschleudern»
36 F-35A-Kampfjets möchte der Bundesrat für die Schweiz beschaffen. Die Kosten belaufen sich auf rund 5 Milliarden.
I can't blame India for buying an inferior fighter (Rafail) they didn't have much of a choice they weren't offered the F-35
Get out of the basement and ask who came by last night. You might get some answers.
No it's you.Get out of the basement and ask who came by last night. You might get some answers.
Don't be so butthurt Rafail lost by a huge margin try to stay on topic.... and make sure you poop in toilets.
It appears the Swiss made their choice based on procurement/upfront cost rather than LCC.
Had pointed out earlier that no jet will be able to compete with the F-35 when it comes to upfront costs.
www.strategicfront.org
As long as the jets make the cut, the cost decides the winner. If the Swiss are only looking at upfront costs, then LM can easily underquote today and then make it back later when sustainment costs come in. But if the Swiss are looking at lifecycle costs, then LM can't afford to sell the jets at a loss.
www.strategicfront.org
Even if the upfront costs are higher, the LCC is gonna favour the Rafale.
$5.5B for 36 comes up to $152M. But LCC costs $477M, which is insane. The additional 350M easily makes up for the difference.
Rafale's LCC was around $300M in India, although that was nearly 10 years ago. But it shouldn't be any different today considering French inflation rate is very low. This cost apparently included ToT and Indian production.
www.srf.ch
The operating costs per flight hour are between 55,000 and 60,000 francs. "
That's a CPFH of $60000 to $65000. So the only way to make it more realistic is to reduce flying hours of each pilot by half and compensate that time on the simulator by an additional hour or more. Or pay the entire amount. This is unaffordable for major air forces.
But I suppose these costs are only specific to the Swiss and for major air forces it will be much lower than that.
"With the F-35A, the total CO2 emissions are reduced by around 25 percent compared to the operation of the current F / A-18C / D and F-5 fleet, due to the overall significantly lower number of flight hours."
And this quote confirms that the Swiss aren't planning to fly the jet a lot. Generally, the idea behind upgrading to a new jet is it can fly more. Also the costs are based on a simulator that is yet to complete development.
Had pointed out earlier that no jet will be able to compete with the F-35 when it comes to upfront costs.
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
F-35 carrier by Hyundai presented at MADEX 2021
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
It's not over till it's over. I would just say that the reaction that some people are gonna have would be the opposite if their plane won. Lockheed may offer a performance based contract. The Finnish choice should be able to by and large conclude the debate to a significant extent. What...
$5.5B for 36 comes up to $152M. But LCC costs $477M, which is insane. The additional 350M easily makes up for the difference.
Rafale's LCC was around $300M in India, although that was nearly 10 years ago. But it shouldn't be any different today considering French inflation rate is very low. This cost apparently included ToT and Indian production.
Kampfjet-Entscheid - Amherd: «Wollen kein Steuergeld verschleudern»
36 F-35A-Kampfjets möchte der Bundesrat für die Schweiz beschaffen. Die Kosten belaufen sich auf rund 5 Milliarden.
That's a CPFH of $60000 to $65000. So the only way to make it more realistic is to reduce flying hours of each pilot by half and compensate that time on the simulator by an additional hour or more. Or pay the entire amount. This is unaffordable for major air forces.
But I suppose these costs are only specific to the Swiss and for major air forces it will be much lower than that.
"With the F-35A, the total CO2 emissions are reduced by around 25 percent compared to the operation of the current F / A-18C / D and F-5 fleet, due to the overall significantly lower number of flight hours."
And this quote confirms that the Swiss aren't planning to fly the jet a lot. Generally, the idea behind upgrading to a new jet is it can fly more. Also the costs are based on a simulator that is yet to complete development.
Funny how you leave out info that totally contradicts with your delusion.It appears the Swiss made their choice based on procurement/upfront cost rather than LCC.
Had pointed out earlier that no jet will be able to compete with the F-35 when it comes to upfront costs.
As long as the jets make the cut, the cost decides the winner. If the Swiss are only looking at upfront costs, then LM can easily underquote today and then make it back later when sustainment costs come in. But if the Swiss are looking at lifecycle costs, then LM can't afford to sell the jets at a loss.Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
F-35 carrier by Hyundai presented at MADEX 2021
Even if the upfront costs are higher, the LCC is gonna favour the Rafale.Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
It's not over till it's over. I would just say that the reaction that some people are gonna have would be the opposite if their plane won. Lockheed may offer a performance based contract. The Finnish choice should be able to by and large conclude the debate to a significant extent. What...
$5.5B for 36 comes up to $152M. But LCC costs $477M, which is insane. The additional 350M easily makes up for the difference.
Rafale's LCC was around $300M in India, although that was nearly 10 years ago. But it shouldn't be any different today considering French inflation rate is very low. This cost apparently included ToT and Indian production.
The operating costs per flight hour are between 55,000 and 60,000 francs. "Kampfjet-Entscheid - Amherd: «Wollen kein Steuergeld verschleudern»
36 F-35A-Kampfjets möchte der Bundesrat für die Schweiz beschaffen. Die Kosten belaufen sich auf rund 5 Milliarden.
That's a CPFH of $60000 to $65000. So the only way to make it more realistic is to reduce flying hours of each pilot by half and compensate that time on the simulator by an additional hour or more. Or pay the entire amount. This is unaffordable for major air forces.
But I suppose these costs are only specific to the Swiss and for major air forces it will be much lower than that.
"With the F-35A, the total CO2 emissions are reduced by around 25 percent compared to the operation of the current F / A-18C / D and F-5 fleet, due to the overall significantly lower number of flight hours."
And this quote confirms that the Swiss aren't planning to fly the jet a lot. Generally, the idea behind upgrading to a new jet is it can fly more. Also the costs are based on a simulator that is yet to complete development.
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- • In terms of effectiveness, the F-35A achieved the best result because it has a marked technological advantage over the other candidates: it includes entirely new, extremely powerful and comprehensively networked systems for protecting and monitoring airspace. The F-35A is able to ensure information superiority; this means pilots benefit from a higher situational awareness in all task areas when compared with the other candidates. This is especially true for day-to-day air policing. What is more, the F-35A is the only aircraft that has been designed from the ground up to be especially difficult for other weapons systems to detect. The resulting high survivability is a great advantage for the Swiss Air Force. In addition, because the F-35A is comparatively easy to operate and is able to provide information superiority, it requires less training and has a better ratio of flight to simulator hours. Because of this, the F-35A requires about 20% fewer flight hours than other candidates, and about 50% fewer take-offs and landings than the Air Force’s current jet aircraft, which the F-35A will be replacing. Finally, it can be assumed that as the newest of the weapons systems evaluated, the F-35A will be able to sustain its technological lead well into the future. Given the planned service life of 30 years, this is a major advantage over the other candidates.
• In terms of product support, the F-35A achieved the highest rating because of its efficient operation and maintenance, modern training design, and the high security of supply throughout its service life. This is attributable in part to the F-35A being manufactured in the highest numbers and it being the aircraft most commonly used by air forces in Europe.
• The F-35A was also the best performer in terms of cooperation, offering extensive opportunities for operational collaboration and broad access to data and technical resources. - Air2030: Federal Council decides to procure 36 F-35A fighter aircraft
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The result of the F-35A in the area of effectiveness is based on a clear technological lead over the other candidates, with which capabilities are greatly expanded or newly created in many areas.
Based on this, the F-35A has novel, very powerful and comprehensively networked systems for the protection and monitoring of the airspace. In this way, the F-35A achieves superior information and enables the pilots to be more aware of the situation in all areas of activity than with the other candidates. This also applies in particular to the daily air police service.
In addition, only the F-35A is designed from the ground up in such a way that it is difficult for other weapon systems to detect. The resulting high survivability is a particular advantage for the Swiss Air Force.
Ultimately, as the most modern weapon system, the F-35A can be assumed to have a technological lead well into the future. Given the intended useful life of at least 30 years, this is a major advantage over the other candidates.
In product support, the F-35A achieved the highest rating due to its efficient operation and maintenance, advanced training and high security of supply during the entire service life. This is also due to the fact that the F-35A is produced in the largest number of units and is also used in Europe by the largest number of countries.
The F-35A also shows the best result in cooperation. It offers extensive opportunities for collaboration in operations and broad access to data and technical resources.
Has reality slapped you yet? The rafail is wayyyy inferior to the F-35 not only in performance which was obvious to anyone with a IQ higher than a chimp but it is also less expensive to operate.
When the Rafail goes up against the F-35 in a nations fighter competition it always loses. FACT!
Would recommend you not acting so immature. Kinda proving the stereotype of a dumb,loud American..No it's you.
Don't be so butthurt Rafail lost by a huge margin try to stay on topic.... and make sure you poop in toilets.
I mean they are better off buying the F-35. Appease the Americans on top of that swiss officials get some good bribe from LMT and still transfer all there American based weaponry on a capable plane. Plus the aren't facing any real enemies in the coming century so even if the f35 has quality issues and lack of upgradeability(as per some reports) they still have a pretty capable plane that can be formidable in the late 2030's.
Though I feel the swiss f35 might end up having a similar fate to the Austrian eurofighters.
Most probably living in a basement in an isolated suburban home in middle America. I hope he doesn't end up shooting a school the way he seems constantly on edge here..
Just returning the favor.
Ah yes because your Rafail lost to a superior fighter it must be bribes!!!. Don't lecture me about maturity when you post such immature response to a lost.
Our Rafale ??!
It's a French plane for crying out loud . What do we care if the Swiss or any other AF select the Rafale or the JSF . It's not as if we go to town celebrating if the Rafale won .
Every defence contractor gives bribes. I know that F35 has superior sensor fusion and stealth. I'm not on "Rafale is the best fighter" hype train. So calm your tits.
The Eurofighters won against Rafale in the early 2000's with the Saudis and some later reports of bribing. And German defence companies are known to bribe. Wouldn't be surprised with LMT considering how sneaky they are as a company. And bribing in the western world is called as
"Lobbying" so wouldn't be really surprised.
Yup. That's a real danger . He also comes across as someone who'd live stream his suicide were the JSF not chosen by the Swiss . Hillbilly here must be celebrating wildly . Must be fried chicken & corn bread all week from today washed down by potent moonshine & we'd be left facing the consequences of that all week starting now .
You just screwed a well known Rafale critics here.No it's you.
Don't be so butthurt Rafail lost by a huge margin try to stay on topic.... and make sure you poop in toilets.
Here's another . Confuses fanboys for critics .
..
So do you have proof that LM bribed the Swiss or are you just talking out of your butt? Why don't you actually read wht the Swiss Gov said on why they chose the F-35. They pretty much break it down.