Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Hmm. Your definition of operational use is different from DOD's.

The F-35 is Combat Ready and Combat Proven

April 20, 2021

Did you know the F-35 is proven in combat with six services having employed the aircraft in combat operations or NATO missions? Highlighted below are some of the ways the F-35 is delivering impressive results for the warfighter today.
  • The U.S. Air Force’s 34th Fighter Generation Squadron recently completed exercise Red Flag 21-1 without losing a single F-35A sortie to a maintenance issue.
  • The U.S. Air Force also recently flew F-35As more than 4,700 miles from Alaska – from negative 30 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit – to Guam for exercise Cope North 2021, where F-35s conducted Agile Combat Employment training on an austere airfield.
  • The U.S. Air Force deployed the F-35 to the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility for 18 consecutive months and the jet delivered operationally: 42 jets, 1,100 airmen, 1,319 sorties, 352 total weapons dropped and 3,774 25MM rounds expended.
  • The Royal Norwegian Air Force fighter detachment has wrapped up the second deployment of the F-35 fighter aircraft to executed NATO’s Air Policing mission in Iceland.
The F-35 is Combat Ready and Combat Proven (f35.com)

What else can I correct you in? :)

Neither the DoD nor the Pentagon have cleared it for operational use. All it does is simple air policing and exercises.
 
I mean the bigger issue with US insurgencies is the brainless.

In Iraq, we were excellent at the bam bam, the sad thing is there was no post victory plan. We disbanded the Iraqi army and then faced an insurgency, which was totally unexpected.

In AF, we committed too little and too much. The goals were high without the proportional commitment, especially when you started Iraq a year and half later. I'm of the believe in 9/11 you either draft for an occupation, or you just go with strikes + negotiations. After that it was 1 year commanders with no overarching connection of strategy. Good commanders were replaced, just as bad ones. Never long enough to build an actual plan.

This is of course a trend. Eisenhower was surprised to find state and DOD not having any plans for Stalin dying. Vietnam is too much to think about.

This is the country that disbanded the millitary 3 times and rebuilt it every time. WW1, WW2, Korea.

Republicans are just the worst. Iraq and Afghanistan, and Trump. Nixon yeesh.

Anyways, it's possible to recover from a ton ton ton of mistakes. But the margin is 0 now.
 
I mean the bigger issue with US insurgencies is the brainless.

In Iraq, we were excellent at the bam bam, the sad thing is there was no post victory plan. We disbanded the Iraqi army and then faced an insurgency, which was totally unexpected.

In AF, we committed too little and too much. The goals were high without the proportional commitment, especially when you started Iraq a year and half later. I'm of the believe in 9/11 you either draft for an occupation, or you just go with strikes + negotiations. After that it was 1 year commanders with no overarching connection of strategy. Good commanders were replaced, just as bad ones. Never long enough to build an actual plan.

This is of course a trend. Eisenhower was surprised to find state and DOD not having any plans for Stalin dying. Vietnam is too much to think about.

This is the country that disbanded the millitary 3 times and rebuilt it every time. WW1, WW2, Korea.

Republicans are just the worst. Iraq and Afghanistan, and Trump. Nixon yeesh.

Anyways, it's possible to recover from a ton ton ton of mistakes. But the margin is 0 now.

Compare that to Russia, where they have more or less gained control over all the insurgencies they faced and then took care of Syria and are now in the process of taking care of Ukraine, at least what they think is their half.
 
So why exactly were you "schooling" me on the F-35 then, Puto, when we both agree I never questioned the F-35s superiority over the Rafale?

Lets see you posted a video of some ex Italian AF & aeronautical engineers opinion on the F-35 who doesn't have access to the F-35 or is in the know which means you agree with him. Had to educate you there. Also you're getting educated as I educate your fellow Apaches...(wait wrong indians)your fellow Indians on the F-35's capabilities who stupidly believed the negative rumors they heard that is until I came here to set the record straight. Aren't I such a good person? 😇

Do you suffer from an inherent inferiority complex that you feel this urge to mask it with superiority & go about strutting & spewing your knowledge like verbal diarrhea inflicting your unsolicited opinions on all & sundry.

No. But I see how correcting the many in here has driven you nuts. This is a forum butt munch where opinions are given whether asked or not allah knows you Indians are full of opinions on the F-35.


I don't speak Irish, Puto? Could you rephrase your question in English please?

Oh it wasn't a question just an observation. Since when is puto Irish? You sure into homophobic slurs usually means... well I won't go there yet I haven't seen your social media sites yet.

Pls Calm your tits down TEEHEE, little girl, take a few deep breaths, compose yourself & then type. There are no prizes to be won here for winning any debate. Unless you get off on it in which case it's an entirely different matter. Like spotting little triangles flying kilometres above earth & feeling wet wet wet in your panties followed by flipping coins on whether it's an UFO or the latest from SkunkWorks.

Ew. Dude you really need to get laid lately you've been getting very porn-ish.

Come to what conclusion, Puto? There were a whole host of points addressed by me. Which one are you specifically referring to here?

Ugh. That saying you're getting educated on the facts of the F-35 is somehow accusing you of questioning the F-35's superiority over the Rafail. Pay attention boy.
 
I mean the bigger issue with US insurgencies is the brainless.

In Iraq, we were excellent at the bam bam, the sad thing is there was no post victory plan. We disbanded the Iraqi army and then faced an insurgency, which was totally unexpected.

In AF, we committed too little and too much. The goals were high without the proportional commitment, especially when you started Iraq a year and half later. I'm of the believe in 9/11 you either draft for an occupation, or you just go with strikes + negotiations. After that it was 1 year commanders with no overarching connection of strategy. Good commanders were replaced, just as bad ones. Never long enough to build an actual plan.

This is of course a trend. Eisenhower was surprised to find state and DOD not having any plans for Stalin dying. Vietnam is too much to think about.

This is the country that disbanded the millitary 3 times and rebuilt it every time. WW1, WW2, Korea.

Republicans are just the worst. Iraq and Afghanistan, and Trump. Nixon yeesh.

Anyways, it's possible to recover from a ton ton ton of mistakes. But the margin is 0 now.
Republicans are the worst so are democrats. Dems gave us Vietnam and many wars too the recent ones being Libya and Syria. How those two turn out? And what's wrong with Trump? He gave us the best economy since 1969 with the lowest unemployment numbers for minorities and wanted the US out of the business of wars. Republicans hated this guy but had to follow him for fear their own constituents would turn on them but the moment they had their chance they were happy to stab him in the back. Trump was going after these neocons/neoliberals but in this end the elite/swamp/nwo/globalist controls all. He was killing China which the elites/swamp hated.

Biden's nick name is China-Joe for a reason you know.
 
Lets see you posted a video of some ex Italian AF & aeronautical engineers opinion on the F-35 who doesn't have access to the F-35 or is in the know which means you agree with him. Had to educate you there.
Retweets don't mean endorsement is a common disclaimer on Twitter. It's also common among millenials. Perhaps you ought to acquaint yourself with it.

Besides that gentleman was an ex Italian AF pilot & an aeronautical engineer. What's your qualification Puto to educate me or anyone else here ?

Why should we take a fan boy seriously, who posts promotional videos of the JSF from it's OEM to prove a technical point where clearly those videos would be obvious propaganda material & very generic as far as technicalities go apart from quoting obscure blogs / publication with laughable theories from some General that only people who believe in the 2nd coming would accept & peppering your posts with conspiracy theories of some whacked out nutcases of some new mysterious bomber / jet which thankfully you didn't claim you've received from extra terrestrial beings?

Also you're getting educated as I educate your fellow Apaches...(wait wrong indians)your fellow Indians on the F-35's capabilities who stupidly believed the negative rumors they heard that is until I came here to set the record straight. Aren't I such a good person? 
Well if you wish to educate the rest pls do so in response to their posts. Why should you be inflicting your views on me? Besides since we both agree the JSF is superior to the Rafale what exactly are you educating me about unless you're a bit thick & in spite of constant repetition from my end you either refuse to comprehend the point I'm making or you can't.

Is it OCD you're suffering from or is your behavior a consequence of in breeding in your family running from generations? Which one is it?
No. But I see how correcting the many in here has driven you nuts.
It hasn't driven me nuts. I'm just grateful that you provided me a way to kill time given my insomnia & further demonstrates why you're not to be taken seriously.

Also that you're easily flustered suffer from a deep inferiority complex masked by a superiority complex & other childhood traumas. It comes across very clearly.

I once read that people with symptoms such as yourself were raised confused about their gender as their mothers often dressed them up as girls ,in some cases right till their teens.

Was that the case with you TEEHEE? Do you identify yourself as non binary & liberally pick up from the alphabet soup to define yourself? Do you write Him / Her / They ; Xim / Xer etc in the column against gender. Do you Cross Dress occasionally or frequently & in public or in pvt?

I mean you're a very interesting specimen & an exact text book case of what I read a long time ago. It's as fascinating as it's eerie.

This is a forum butt munch where opinions are given whether asked or not allah knows you Indians are full of opinions on the F-35.
Remember what did I tell you about etiquettes & about Americans moving from barbarism to decadence.... I'm sure you do. Now be a Good boy & fill in the blanks & thanks for living upto your reputation once more.

You certainly do your country & countrymen's reputation a lot of justice as your armed forces are now doing in Afghanistan!

BTW you ought to brush up your general knowledge by more than a little bit. Muslims usually are to be found to the West of us i.e Pakistan Afghanistan Iran etc. India is a Hindu majority country.

You actually remind me of a clod who killed a Sikh mistakenly thinking he was a Muslim - an Arab to be precise coz of his headgear in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. It was a case of mistaken identity & quite obviously a hate crime.

The killer was sentenced to life without parole. Imagine his plight. He couldn't even savor his deed or justify it to the world or himself. It should come as no surprise that he was Irish. Perhaps he received the sentence he did less for the crime & more for his stupidity & his ethnicity.

Oh it wasn't a question just an observation.
Could you rephrase your observation in English then?

Since when is puto Irish? You sure into homophobic slurs usually means... well I won't go there yet I haven't seen your social media sites yet.
Who says Puto is Irish? One defines the ethnicity the other your profession. I don't see why you're so offended when you gave us a comprehensive description of your a r s e & the kind of grooming you subjected it to. Remember my response then.

Ew. Dude you really need to get laid lately you've been getting very porn-ish.
For someone who spends Saturday nights on a forum when all those in the US who can are partying after being in & out of quarantine for more than a year, that's a very interesting observation coming from you.

I could categorise you as an incel . You come pretty close to it's standard definition apart from the other traits you've displayed. All dead ringers for typical incel behavior.

Ugh. That saying you're getting educated on the facts of the F-35 is somehow accusing you of questioning the F-35's superiority over the Rafail. Pay attention boy.
I see your OCD / genetic disease on a/c of in breeding has struck once more. I'd reproduce what I did post earlier right below once again..

Is it OCD you're suffering from or is your behavior a consequence of in breeding in your family running from generations? Which one is it?

Also that you're easily flustered, suffer from a deep inferiority complex & other childhood traumas. It comes across very clearly.

I once read that people with symptoms such as yourself were raised confused about their gender as their mothers often dressed them up as girls in some cases right till their teens.

Was that the case with you TEEHEE? Do you identify yourself as non binary & liberally pick up from the alphabet soup to define yourself? Do you write Him / Her / They ; Xim / Xer etc in the column against gender.

Do you Cross Dress occasionally or frequently & in public or in pvt? I mean you're a very interesting specimen & an exact text book case of what I read a long time ago. It's as fascinating as it's eerie.

P. S - why didn't you quote me instead of surreptitiously responding to me. I didn't receive any notification thanks to your act. Any specific reason you'd do that Puto?
 
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Same with Dassault and the Rafale and even the Typhoon had a more powerful engine on the drawing board and nobody ever said that even needed more power.
EF and Rafale used the same engine from their beginning. It's rare to see a modern jet needed a new engine while not FOC.
 
They were discussing power upgrades for Rafale and Typhoon from early days.
Yes, but nothing made 20 years after, because the original powerplants were studied adequaly (and the frame weight remained in a small margin from what was expected at the beginning, thanks to longer and detailed R&D phase).
F35 is becoming fater and fater, so the actual already big engine is over exploited.
 
Yes, but nothing made 20 years after, because the original powerplants were studied adequaly (and the frame weight remained in a small margin from what was expected at the beginning, thanks to longer and detailed R&D phase).
F35 is becoming fater and fater, so the actual already big engine is over exploited.
Oh honey your dumbness really needs to stop.

-1. Qualification of the M88-2 engine ended in 1996 and the first production engine was delivered by the end of the year.
2. In May 2010, a Rafale flew for the first time with the M88-4E engine, an upgraded variant with greater thrust and lower maintenance requirements than the preceding M88-2.

And for a few years now Duh-ssault has been looking once again to get more power out of its underpowered engines.

Safran Plans Engine Upgrade For Dassault Rafale Fighter Jet​

2016.

-French company Safran, which manufactures the M88 engine of the Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft plans to increase its thrust from 7.5 tone to nine tons.

La Tribune newspaper said yesterday quoting CEO of Safran, Philippe Petitcolin that, the engine upgrade in terms of thrust was necessary as the Rafale had grown heavier over the years due to addition of weapons and other systems.

He said that the original thrust of the Rafale engine was the same since the launch of the French fighter. The Rafale was designed over two decades ago.

However, the upgrade issue had not been discussed with Dassault Aviation, the Safran CEO added.

"It is time to ask the question whether it is appropriate to launch a study that would increase the engine thrust. Technically we can do. We are in discussion with the relevant authorities to see if possible. and if so, under what conditions and at what level of performance, it would be desirable to improve it, said Philippe Petitcolin (the quote has been translated from French).
Safran Plans Engine Upgrade For Dassault Rafale Fighter Jet (defenseworld.net)

Your Rafail is too fat for its current engines. F-35 isn't getting fatter you putz it's been the same weight since it entered service
block3F was software upgrade.
 
2. In May 2010, a Rafale flew for the first time with the M88-4E engine, an upgraded variant with greater thrust and lower maintenance requirements than the preceding M88-2.
FALSE my dear. M88-4E has the same thrust than the original M88-2. the two goals of "-4E" is to reduce the global cost of the engine by increasing the life of the hot core and to reduce the fuel consumption.
The more powerfull version is M88-X then M88-9 but was never serially produce.
Sorry for you. Another try?
 
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Your Rafail is too fat for its current engines.
Rafale is supercruising Mach1.4 with 4 AAM and a central tank, with (according to you) too weak engines.
F35 is not able to supercruise (a 5th gen asset according to Lockeed Martin itself, but it was before) despite a 12 tons dry engine..... Search the error my poor average american.
 
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FALSE my dear. M88-4E has the same thrust than the original M88-2. the two goals of "-4E" is to reduce the global cost of the engine by increasing the life of the hot core and to reduce the fuel consumption.
The more powerfull version is M88-X then M88-9 but was never serially produce.
Sorry for you. Another try?

The M88-2 powerplant is rated at 10,971 lbs dry and 16,620 lbs with afterburner. It is equipped with redundant “full authority digital engine control” (fadec), which provides for carefree engine handling anywhere in the flight envelope : the throttle can be slammed from combat power to idle and back to combat power again, with less than three seconds from idle to full afterburner.

Launched in 2008, the M88 TCO (“Total Cost of Ownership”) programme was initiated to further improve engine durability and bring support costs down. Capitalising on the ECO project, SAFRAN AIRCRAFT ENGINES was able to upgrade the high-pressure compressor and the high pressure turbine of the M88-2: cooling is ameliorated and stronger components have been introduced, boosting durability by up to 50%. Life expectancy between overhaul has been considerably expanded for a number of modules, helping further minimise the impact of planned maintenance on engine availability.

The M88 is the subject of a constant improvement effort by SAFRAN AIRCRAFT ENGINES, leading to the latest M88-4e version, which builds on the TCO programme. This version is now in final qualification tests. Production deliveries are expected shortly, and from 2012 RAFALE Aircraft will come out of the production line with m88-4es fitted on them.
RAFALE India - M88 : More Thrust Than Enough

In May 2010, a Rafale flew for the first time with the M88-4E engine, an upgraded variant with greater thrust and lower maintenance requirements than the preceding M88-2.

Lets not forget what SAFRAN said...
La Tribune newspaper said yesterday quoting CEO of Safran, Philippe Petitcolin that, the engine upgrade in terms of thrust was necessary as the Rafale had grown heavier over the years due to addition of weapons and other systems.

So two engine upgrades so far for Rafail and they want another one because Rafail has grown heavier.
 
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Rafale is supercruising Mach1.4 with 4 AAM and a central tank, with (according to you) too weak engines.
F35 is not able to supercruise (a 5th gen asset according to Lockeed Martin itself, but it was before) despite a 12 tons dry engine..... Search the error my poor average american.
Dassault propaganda. See what I did there?

You gotta understand F-35 wasn't built for supercruise it doesn't need it its capabilities speak for itself however it can "supercruise" for 150+ miles.

Rafail with its SKINNY center tank has much less fuel than F-35 no way can Rafail supercruise longer than F-35 that is just Duhssault propaganda.


-The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners.

"Mach 1.2 is a good speed for you, according to the pilots," O’Bryan said.

The high speed also allows the F-35 to impart more energy to a weapon such as a bomb or missile, meaning the aircraft will be able to "throw" such munitions farther than they could go on their own energy alone.

There is a major extension of the fighter’s range if speed is kept around Mach .9, O’Bryan went on, but he asserted that F-35 transonic performance is exceptional and goes "through the [Mach 1] number fairly easily." The transonic area is "where you really operate."

In combat configuration, the F-35’s range exceeds that of fourth generation fighters by 25 percent. These are Air Force figures, O’Bryan noted. "We’re comparing [the F-35] to [the] ‘best of’ fourth gen" fighters. The F-35 "compares favorably in any area of the envelope," he asserted.
The F-35’s Race Against Time (archive.org)
 
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Yes, but nothing made 20 years after, because the original powerplants were studied adequaly (and the frame weight remained in a small margin from what was expected at the beginning, thanks to longer and detailed R&D phase).
F35 is becoming fater and fater, so the actual already big engine is over exploited.
Lack of funding is why. And 'fatter' has two 't's.
 
F15E, F15EX.... Ok, you are a noob, your are forgiven.
F-15EX didn't exist yet you dope and an F-15E wit a combat load is very draggy with bombs, tanks and pods
hanging F-15E uses a lot of fuel to carry such load. Put on your listening ears to what this USAF pilot says.

I see you have no retort to SAFRAN's claim? Face it the Rafail is too heavy for its current engines that were upgraded in 2010-2012.
 
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