Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[Lolwa]

Tejas is dependent on US components... take a guess what they are?

Engine only. Our EW and avionics are Israeli. We usually avoid American tech cause of what it will lead to further. American tech further leads to following American foreign policy diktat when it comes to offensive systems. That's why we only buy support or non-tactical offensive systems from you guys.
I would love India buying the f-15 EX and f35 B for our naval requirements. But it just isn't happening with what will follow up with Americans..

 

[BMD]

Croatia has shown interest in F-35 jets - Lockheed executive

Lockheed Martin co, the United States' largest weapons maker, has fielded interest from Croatia regarding the purchase of stealthy F-35 jets, a Lockheed executive said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

British F-35 jets to receive weapon capability enhancements

The funding allows for the SPEAR precision surface attack weapon and the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile to be integrated onto British and Italian F-35 jets.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Er... No. The NGAD and B-21 will be.

Nah, Homelander will be.

 

[Innominate]

Er... No. The NGAD and B-21 will be.

Er.... Ya. NGAD and B-21 are mid 2030's and USAF agrees with me.

"Air Force leaders have said the F-35, by virtue of its stealth, will become the main platform for the SEAD/DEAD mission in the coming decade."
Lockheed to Retrofit F-35s for Suppression/Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses Role - Air Force Magazine

 

[randomradio]

Er.... Ya. NGAD and B-21 are mid 2030's and USAF agrees with me.

"Air Force leaders have said the F-35, by virtue of its stealth, will become the main platform for the SEAD/DEAD mission in the coming decade."
Lockheed to Retrofit F-35s for Suppression/Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses Role - Air Force Magazine

Right now they are not even willing to use it in exercises. And B4 is expected to finish only in 2027, a tentative date. By then just having stealth will be useless.

 

[Lolwa]

View attachment 21025
That is thee most important component.

Israel needs US permission to sell its fighter avionics abroad so in a way you can also consider the avionics murrcan.

Err No. The Americans have no missile similar to the python or the Derby. The el 2032/2052 are no way similar to the APG 63/68 series. Nice way to cope really. We have been buying from the Israelis since before the indo-US relations normalising..

 

[Innominate]

Right now they are not even willing to use it in exercises. And B4 is expected to finish only in 2027, a tentative date. By then just having stealth will be useless.

What the hell are you talking about? F-35's are used for SEAD/DEAD in combat exercise.

Italian Air Force F-35s Carry Out SEAD and DEAD Training During Exercise Lightning 2020​

Italian Air Force F-35s Carry Out SEAD and DEAD Training During Exercise Lightning 2020 - The Aviationist

 

[Innominate]

Err No. The Americans have no missile similar to the python or the Derby. The el 2032/2052 are no way similar to the APG 63/68 series. Nice way to cope really. We have been buying from the Israelis since before the indo-US relations normalising..

Why did you go off topic? Where did I compare missiles? But since you opened your mouth and have no clue what you're talking about I'll be your huckle bearer. Aim-9x/xII is more advanced than PythonV so much so zee Israelis bought a lot of aim-9xii missiles.

IAF to Receive Additional AIM-9X Missiles​

Israel has purchased Raytheon’s AIM-9X Block II tactical missiles for $9.2 million
IAF to Receive Additional AIM-9X Missiles | Israel Defense

These are just extra more aim9-xii they bought from the previous order.

ISRAEL - AIM-9X SIDEWINDER MISSILES​

The Government of Israel has requested a possible sale of up to 600 AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II All-Up-Round Missiles, 50 CATM-9X-2 Captive Air Training Missiles, 4 Dummy Air Training Missiles, containers, missile support and test equipment, provisioning, spare and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor technical support services, and other related logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $544 million.

The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to assist Israel in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives and will enable the Older Forum to achieve those goals.

The Israeli Air Force is modernizing its fighter aircraft to better support its own air defense needs. The proposed sale of AIM-9X-2 missiles will improve the capability of the Israeli Air Force, enhance Israeli interoperability with the U.S., and help maintain regional peace and security. Israel will have no difficulty absorbing these missiles into its armed forces.
Israel - AIM-9X Sidewinder Missiles | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil)

Aim-9xii is more capable than python5 the 9x has BVR capability including air to ground.

Also Derby is nowhere near as capable as the Aim-120D. Aim-120D not only has a 100nm+ range it is also an extreme HOBs missile. In 2 years the Aim-260 will enter service with greater range and more capabilities that the US will no longer built aim-9 type IR missiles. 9xII will be the last IR missile because of the Aim-260.

 

[randomradio]

What the hell are you talking about? F-35's are used for SEAD/DEAD in combat exercise.

Italian Air Force F-35s Carry Out SEAD and DEAD Training During Exercise Lightning 2020​

Italian Air Force F-35s Carry Out SEAD and DEAD Training During Exercise Lightning 2020 - The Aviationist

Yes. But in such training, you can pretend you have certain capabilities even if you cannot actually use them.

The F-35 is still not combat-ready. Most of its capabilities are still on paper.

The exercises I'm referring to are the no-holds barred kind, with full operational capabilities that the F-35 can actually use.

 

[Lolwa]

Why did you go off topic? Where did I compare missiles? But since you opened your mouth and have no clue what you're talking about I'll be your huckle bearer. Aim-9x/xII is more advanced than PythonV so much so zee Israelis bought a lot of aim-9xii missiles.

IAF to Receive Additional AIM-9X Missiles​

Israel has purchased Raytheon’s AIM-9X Block II tactical missiles for $9.2 million
IAF to Receive Additional AIM-9X Missiles | Israel Defense

These are just extra more aim9-xii they bought from the previous order.

ISRAEL - AIM-9X SIDEWINDER MISSILES​

The Government of Israel has requested a possible sale of up to 600 AIM-9X-2 Sidewinder Block II All-Up-Round Missiles, 50 CATM-9X-2 Captive Air Training Missiles, 4 Dummy Air Training Missiles, containers, missile support and test equipment, provisioning, spare and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor technical support services, and other related logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $544 million.

The United States is committed to the security of Israel, and it is vital to U.S. national interests to assist Israel in developing and maintaining a strong and ready self-defense capability. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives and will enable the Older Forum to achieve those goals.

The Israeli Air Force is modernizing its fighter aircraft to better support its own air defense needs. The proposed sale of AIM-9X-2 missiles will improve the capability of the Israeli Air Force, enhance Israeli interoperability with the U.S., and help maintain regional peace and security. Israel will have no difficulty absorbing these missiles into its armed forces.
Israel - AIM-9X Sidewinder Missiles | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil)

Aim-9xii is more capable than python5 the 9x has BVR capability including air to ground.

Also Derby is nowhere near as capable as the Aim-120D. Aim-120D not only has a 100nm+ range it is also an extreme HOBs missile. In 2 years the Aim-260 will enter service with greater range and more capabilities that the US will no longer built aim-9 type IR missiles. 9xII will be the last IR missile because of the Aim-260.

Derby is closer to the mica in performance than aim 120d different class tbqh..I never said it was superior just nothing similar in the American inventory..

 

[Innominate]

Yes. But in such training, you can pretend you have certain capabilities even if you cannot actually use them.

The F-35 is still not combat-ready. Most of its capabilities are still on paper.

The exercises I'm referring to are the no-holds barred kind, with full operational capabilities that the F-35 can actually use.

What are you talking about? Do you purposely practice at being dumb or does it come naturally?

F-35 doesn't pretend in combat training it goes in combat training with what is capable. At Red Flag when F-35 went IOC they were in block 3i and could only use JDAMS and Aim-120's and were taking out F-15 and F-16 aggressors at BVR ranges they lost when the fighting went WVR. They were also doing DEAD with JDAMS getting JDAM range of AN/MPQ-53/65 without being detected. Block 3F already gives them superior capability in SEAD/DEAD with SDB, JSOW, etc... including hitting 5 moving targets at same time using its own sensors.

I guess the french plane isn't combat ready either since most of its capabilities that will help it survive the modern high-tech battlefield is in F4?

 

[Innominate]

Derby is closer to the mica in performance than aim 120d different class tbqh..I never said it was superior just nothing similar in the American inventory..

Err No. The Americans have no missile similar to the python or the Derby

There was an insinuation that Murrcans have no missile similar to the python5 or derby as in as capable. Why bring it up if that is not what you meant?

 

[randomradio]

What are you talking about? Do you purposely practice at being dumb or does it come naturally?

F-35 doesn't pretend in combat training it goes in combat training with what is capable. At Red Flag when F-35 went IOC they were in block 3i and could only use JDAMS and Aim-120's and were taking out F-15 and F-16 aggressors at BVR ranges they lost when the fighting went WVR. They were also doing DEAD with JDAMS getting JDAM range of AN/MPQ-53/65 without being detected. Block 3F already gives them superior capability in SEAD/DEAD with SDB, JSOW, etc... including hitting 5 moving targets at same time using its own sensors.

I guess the french plane isn't combat ready either since most of its capabilities that will help it survive the modern high-tech battlefield is in F4?

That question is definitely for you to answer. You are talking about something entirely different since those are absolutely minimuim capabilities to even enter an exercise.

Derby is closer to the mica in performance than aim 120d different class tbqh..I never said it was superior just nothing similar in the American inventory..

Derby is, but the Derby ER outranges the Aim-120D.

The AIM-9X lost to both the Python V and ASRAAM in India. It did not even get shortlisted.

 

[Innominate]

That question is definitely for you to answer. You are talking about something entirely different since those are absolutely minimuim capabilities to even enter an exercise.

Italians already demonstrated SEAD/DEAD capability in combat exercise. There was no pretending man-up and say oops I was dumb and wrong.

Derby is, but the Derby ER outranges the Aim-120D.

Lol. Derby-er is an estimated 100km Aim-120D is 100nm estimate.

The AIM-9X lost to both the Python V and ASRAAM in India. It did not even get shortlisted.

Lol. India is famously known for making very stupid choices especially when it comes to their military so India not choosing certain US weapons is not taken as a rebuke in the weapons performance. Aim-9x is currently serving with 24 countries including Israel which bought over 600 of them over their python5. Get where I'm going?

Aim-9xII will is far more capable than 9x and the 9x is a very capable HOBs missile

 

[randomradio]

Lol. Derby-er is an estimated 100km Aim-120D is 100nm estimate.

Derby ER is 200+Km. The 100Km advertised range is at medium altitude.

As per the Israelis, the overall capability of the Aim-120D is 50% of the Derby ER. It uses a dual pulse motor after all.

 

[Innominate]

Derby ER is 200+Km. The 100Km advertised range is at medium altitude.

As per the Israelis, the overall capability of the Aim-120D is 50% of the Derby ER. It uses a dual pulse motor after all.

Dumb.

I Derby-ER improvements include increase range (100km) utilizing data link ( missile uplink based on Rafael Global link)
I-Derby-ER-brochure.pdf (rafael.co.il)

The Aim-120D has a 50% increase range from the Aim-120C7.

The longest air to air missile test belonged to the Aim-54 Phoenix it killed a drone over 100+ miles that was surpassed by the Aim-120D.

F-15 Eagle Scores “Longest Known” Air-To-Air Missile Shot During U.S. Air Force Test​

An F-15C Eagle fighter jet destroyed a target drone last month in what the U.S. Air Force describes as “the longest known air-to-air missile shot to date.” Exactly how far away the fighter was from its target when it fired the radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM missile has not been disclosed, but the test is a clear signal that the Air Force is making very long-range aerial engagements a priority.

The potentially record-breaking missile shot, at least in terms of U.S. capabilities, took place during a WSEP East event — or Weapons System Evaluation Program — that provides air-to-air and air-to-ground training and evaluation, giving pilots the chance to use these weapons for real. WSEP East refers to evaluations at Tyndall Air Force Base, in Florida, while those at Hill Air Force Base in Utah are known as WSEP West.
F-15 Eagle Scores “Longest Known” Air-To-Air Missile Shot During U.S. Air Force Test (thedrive.com)

 

[randomradio]

Dumb.

I Derby-ER improvements include increase range (100km) utilizing data link ( missile uplink based on Rafael Global link)
I-Derby-ER-brochure.pdf (rafael.co.il)

At lower altitudes. You obviously do not know this but AAM range changes based on altitude.

If a missile does 100Km at medium altitude, then it will do 200+ Km at high altitude. You can say that the Aim-120D does 80 Km at the same altitude the Derby ER does 100 Km.

India's latest Astra Mk2 manages 250Km at high altitude. The upcoming Astra Mk3 does 350Km. The Chinese PL-15 manages 250-300Km. Meteor does 250+Km. And so on. Derby ER does 200+Km, whereas the old AIM-120D is said to do 160-180Km. Which is why the AIM-260 are in development, and is expected to exceed 200Km as well, to match Chinese capability.

Derby is twice as good as the AIM-120D because it uses a dual pulse motor, which allows a terminal speed that's almost twice that of the AIM-120D. So when the AIM-120D's speed drops to mach 2.5 when making a kill, the Derby ER accelerates to mach 4.5 when making a kill, while also carrying a significantly superior seeker tech. All the other missiles I've mentioned above either use dual pulse rockets or ramjet. The AIM-120D with its single pulse motor is already outdated.

 

[Innominate]

At lower altitudes. You obviously do not know this but AAM range changes based on altitude.

If a missile does 100Km at medium altitude, then it will do 200+ Km at high altitude. You can say that the Aim-120D does 80 Km at the same altitude the Derby ER does 100 Km.

India's latest Astra Mk2 manages 250Km at high altitude. The upcoming Astra Mk3 does 350Km. The Chinese PL-15 manages 250-300Km. Meteor does 250+Km. And so on. Derby ER does 200+Km, whereas the old AIM-120D is said to do 160-180Km. Which is why the AIM-260 are in development, and is expected to exceed 200Km as well, to match Chinese capability.

Derby is twice as good as the AIM-120D because it uses a dual pulse motor, which allows a terminal speed that's almost twice that of the AIM-120D. So when the AIM-120D's speed drops to mach 2.5 when making a kill, the Derby ER accelerates to mach 4.5 when making a kill, while also carrying a significantly superior seeker tech. All the other missiles I've mentioned above either use dual pulse rockets or ramjet. The AIM-120D with its single pulse motor is already outdated.

I posted my source from Rafael now post yours that backs up your B... claim. All air to air missiles top speed and range that are disclosed (unclassified) are done at optimum altitude if Derby had 200km Rafael would have said so. Just like a fighters top speed they are done at optimum altitude and clean.

Aim-120D range goes from 87nm to 100nm.

Aim-54 had the US record for longest shot at 100+ miles and that was recently beaten by the Aim-120d.

Just accept you're wrong and be done with it instead of looking foolish.

 

[randomradio]

I posted my source from Rafael now post yours that backs up your B... claim. All air to air missiles top speed and range that are disclosed (unclassified) are done at optimum altitude if Derby had 200km Rafael would have said so. Just like a fighters top speed they are done at optimum altitude and clean.

Aim-120D range goes from 87nm to 100nm.

Aim-54 had the US record for longest shot at 100+ miles and that was recently beaten by the Aim-120d.

Just accept you're wrong and be done with it instead of looking foolish.

After Astra, DRDO now focuses its sight on more indigenous BVRAAMs for the IAF

After Astra, DRDO now focuses its sight on more indigenous BVRAAMs for the IAF Atul Kumar Now that the Indian

forceindia.net

According to the ministry of defence (MoD) annual report 2018-19, SFDR-based BVR will be capable of hitting air targets within the range of 70-340 km in the power ‘ON’ mode.

That's 340Km in "on" mode. Meaning it can do more when gliding without power.

 

[Innominate]

After Astra, DRDO now focuses its sight on more indigenous BVRAAMs for the IAF

After Astra, DRDO now focuses its sight on more indigenous BVRAAMs for the IAF Atul Kumar Now that the Indian

forceindia.net

According to the ministry of defence (MoD) annual report 2018-19, SFDR-based BVR will be capable of hitting air targets within the range of 70-340 km in the power ‘ON’ mode.

That's 340Km in "on" mode. Meaning it can do more when gliding without power.

First of all you're not as clever as you think you are. All of a sudden you bring up Astra when the topic was the Derby-er's range which you claim was 200km when it's not. Stay on topic and post a source that backs up your claim that the Derby-er has a 200km range.

As for your Astra...

India to start trials of 160 km strike range Astra missile this year:

NEW DELHI: In a step that would establish its superiority in air combat over China and Pakistan, India would start testing the Astra Mark 2 beyond visual range air to air missile, which would be capable of taking down enemy aircraft from a range of 160 kilometres.

"The trial for the Astra Mark would be starting in the second half of this year and we are hoping to see the missile fully developed by 2022," government officials told ANI.
India to start trials of 160 km strike range Astra missile this year (indiatimes.com)

Astra Mk3 will start trials in 2022.
Astra Mk2 this year and Astra Mk3 next year to be tested: DRDO Chief – Indian Defence Research Wing (****)

Astra mk3 has not entered service it's like me claiming US having aim-260 because it's going through trials right now.

Stop changing the subject.

 

[randomradio]

First of all you're not as clever as you think you are. All of a sudden you bring up Astra when the topic was the Derby-er's range which you claim was 200km when it's not. Stay on topic and post a source that backs up your claim that the Derby-er has a 200km range.

As for your Astra...

India to start trials of 160 km strike range Astra missile this year:

NEW DELHI: In a step that would establish its superiority in air combat over China and Pakistan, India would start testing the Astra Mark 2 beyond visual range air to air missile, which would be capable of taking down enemy aircraft from a range of 160 kilometres.

"The trial for the Astra Mark would be starting in the second half of this year and we are hoping to see the missile fully developed by 2022," government officials told ANI.
India to start trials of 160 km strike range Astra missile this year (indiatimes.com)

Astra Mk3 will start trials in 2022.
Astra Mk2 this year and Astra Mk3 next year to be tested: DRDO Chief – Indian Defence Research Wing (****)

Astra mk3 has not entered service it's like me claiming US having aim-260 because it's going through trials right now.

Stop changing the subject.

You won't find information about Derby ER, you need knowledge. As per the Israelis, the AIM-120D is only half as capable. That's plenty enough.

The same with Astra, the 160Km range refers to medium altitude, that's not its max range.

As for Astra Mk3, it's already under testing. First flew in 2018, so no, it's not like the AIM-260.

What they are talking about is testing from a fighter jet. All it needs is a 2-year testing cycle before induction.