BDL built their facility beforehand knowing orders are guaranteed.
Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
BDL built their facility beforehand knowing orders are guaranteed.
Astra IR would've been a useful capability to have. Not only as a local alternative to the expensive MICA RF/IR but also as a way to counter eccm better by shooting an RF missile followed by IR. (This is reportedly a standard BVR tactic in the RuAF)
Granted, we also have the Russian R-27RE1 + TE1 combo but that is older gen tech.
I'd hope that the MICA RF/IR combo would also make its way onto the MKI some day. Apparently, Malaysian MKMs have already been fitted with them.
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The P5 was originally acquired to replace the Matra Magic on the Jaguar. However, it was later replaced by the ASRAAM. The only other IAF jet it has been tested from is the Tejas Mk1, afaik.
With the IAF standardizing on ASRAAM,
I'd say P5 has been largely relegated to the S2A role as part of the Spyder-SR system.
True, but the project is shelved for now. It could be revived later though based upon Astra MK2 frame or DRDO could silently be working on a new gen CCM. Let's see.
Outdated.
MICA-IR likely(some reports indicate that it is already integrated with MKI), but MICA RF? Nope. Astra MK1 is better than it in every single attribute and Astra MK2 shall maintain that lead over MICA-RF NG too. However, integrating MICA-IR NG with MKI would make most sense looking at low-signature aerial targets in our vicinity.
It's part of shared resources when it comes to both LCA Mk1/A and MKI.
When in combat, jets land in alternate bases and are required to fly again after being equipped with whatever is available. So Derby and Python for LCA and MKI are part of the SPYDER's resource system. That's also why we want Rafales to be equipped with non-French missiles, 'cause it's gonna play a significant role, like LCA and MKI, due to its numbers. So even Rafales need to carry Astra and ASRAAM, while LCA and MKI will also be eventually equipped with MICA RF and Meteor.
Basically, standardized on ASRAAM, but will also carry Python V and MICA IR in the given circumstance.
Ah, forgot to mention. P5 and ASRAAM competed for Jaguar, and ASRAAM won. That's why it was selected. It also beat IRIS-T and AIM-9X.
ASRAAM was chosen for its range and speed, while P5 and IRIS-T focused more on endgame performance at shorter ranges. So P5 is a pretty good complement to the ASRAAM and MICA IR.
ASRAAM was chosen for its range and speed, while P5 and IRIS-T focused more on endgame performance at shorter ranges. So P5 is a pretty good complement to the ASRAAM and MICA IR.
Rafale desperately needs a dedicated IIR CCM. MICA IR doesn't cut it as it has a minimum range of ~500m vs ~300m for ASRAAM. In a way, it is good that we settled on the ASRAAM. It will be easier to integrate on the Rafale as it is a MBDA product.
True. There were reports some years ago that the IAF was planning to integrate the Kh-31A/P on the Rafale. However, I doubt the Frenchies would allow any such integration to proceed after the arms embargo. In any case, we have the Rudram now.
DRDO is better utilised developing a miniaturised version of the Astra Mk1 to go on board the IWB of the AMCA & the various stealthy CCAs / UCAVs we're planning to develop or at least I'm hoping we're planning to develop since most of what we're reading in the public domain seem plans on paper.
With the way air warfare is evolving CCMs will soon be a thing of the past unless we evolve extremely small LO drones / CCAs capable of carrying say 2 x ~ 6 ft long CCMs weighing 50-60 kgs each with a range of 40-50 kms for an ambush attack as it were on LO / VLO FAs.
In my understanding that's the reason both DRDO & IAF decided not to go in for an IIR version of the Astra where such manpower could be better utilised on other tasks.
With the way air warfare is evolving CCMs will soon be a thing of the past unless we evolve extremely small LO drones / CCAs capable of carrying say 2 x ~ 6 ft long CCMs weighing 50-60 kgs each with a range of 40-50 kms for an ambush attack as it were on LO / VLO FAs.
In my understanding that's the reason both DRDO & IAF decided not to go in for an IIR version of the Astra where such manpower could be better utilised on other tasks.
AMCA IWB can apparently already accommodate upto 4 Astra Mk1s based on mockup displayed at various airshows. Imo, there is scope for a folding fin variant for internal/semi recessed carriage in future (a la KAI KF-21)
I'd say the small AAM niche (once represented by LM CUDA et all) is increasingly occupied by rockets like APKWS in podded config on 4.5 jets.
Recent events in the ME show that they are quite adequate against slow moving, non maneouvering targets.
5G jets will likely rely on a combo of passive stealth and tech like DIRCM, laser pods to swat/distract incoming missiles.
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AMCA should have had at least enough storage for 6 AA missiles, hope AMCA mk2 would be able to do so.
In the event I wasn't referring to hunting drones or CCAs or even hptrs using such munitions on board FAs. It's a waste of resources. You can do that by upgrading the HTT / IJT / AJT in our arsenal at least as far as hunting drones go maybe not so much hptrs.
The key word there was ambush. You get a small CCA which also happens to be LO thru design & usage of such MoC for its construction meaning passive stealth close enough without being detected & the NEZ of the CCM should do the rest.
For more clarity let's say a stealthier version of the CATS Warrior which incidentally the IAF is indifferent to.
The limited size of the F-35s IWB spurred the dev of a range of small strike weapons like the SDB-1/2, SPEAR, et all. In the A2A domain, LM pitched CUDA to increase load outs versus the AMRAAM.
Similarly, the IAF too might want more compact AAMs in due course with ranges comparable to the Astra mk1/2 in due course.
A2A roled CCA are also a distinct possibility as you suggested. These could be air launched (like the LM Longshot) or ground-based. Let's hope the IAFs newly inaugurated Directorate of Aerospace Design comes up with some innovative ideas soon.
I don't think CCMs are redundant yet, though. They still serve as the sidearm to the BVRAAMs sniper rifle.
The next gen CCMs will likely push the envelope in terms of speed, stealth, etc in a similar form factor.
Germany's Diehl is working on a next gen stealthy CCM concept called FCAAM that's about the same size as the IRIS-T.
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It is now almost confirmed that later batches of AMCA will carry 6 BVRAAMs(maybe even from initial batches).
With 200 kms AAM & VLO becoming the norm I don't see much role for the CCMs beyond say 10-15 years unless stealth becomes undetectable till both planes are within visual range of each other.
Reminds me of Dune on a lighter note where technology is so advanced that personal protective shields have rendered lasers & bullets useless & the only way to kill an opponent is thru a knife / sword duel .
MICA NG is the next upgrade.
Kh-31P could only be a rumor.
CCMs will become even more important due to their ability to function as an anti-missile system.
Love those movies! Especially stuff like orinthopter 'helos' and personal force fields.
CCMs will remain relevant as long as laser/HPM/DIRCM don't reliably replace gatling guns on 4.5G/5G jets. The list of jets without one is huge. RAF Typhoons, US F-35B/C and reportedly even the J-20.
Really glad to note you didn't write CCMs would serve as anti missile systems. You don't know how happy it makes me feel.
