It's up to LM. But if LM participates with the F-16, they have zero chance.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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It's up to LM. But if LM participates with the F-16, they have zero chance.
This tender is just a dog and pony show for the Rafale.
IMO this farce will be wrapped up in 2 years and GoI will be in talks with DA for Make in India Rafales with first batch of MMRCA 2.0 Rafales coming within 5-6 years but this could be offset if both sides make a sensible decision and order the 16/17 Rafales off the shelf straight away so they can continue to be delivered post 2022 when the final deliveries of the first Rafale tranche are completed.Since India opted for this inefficient route, practically how soon India can start receiving these fighters ?
@Milspec @Abingdonboy @Aashish @vstol Jockey
@randomradio Bhai sahab, aap mat bolna. You are too optimist!!
I’d say Govt is hoping to having something in place before 2022 otherwise literally the ONLY fighter in production for India will be the LCA!
If I was a pessimist I’d say 7-8 years before first deliveries are made.
If it is any fighter other than Rafale (not that that is even remotely likely) then 10+ years for first delivery as India would have to start from scratch vis a vis offsets, contract clauses, industrial tie ups etc. With Rafale all these avenues are already well established now.
Is there a precedent for this though? What purpose does this serve other than to lose yet more valuable years in delays?
US sanctions anyone that buys weapons from Russia? Must’ve missed that and if true why isn’t India banned from buying C17/AH-64/P-8/etc?
Of course there is. There are rules in procurement stating that if a particular weapons system has a competitor that is available to us, then it must be procured only through a tender process. This can only be bypassed in extremely rare cases, when it's an emergency.
Common sense says a GTG is the correct way, but it is irrelevant in this case since any further delay would mean procurement of a second tranche of 36 Rafales. So the GTG process, which is more expensive, is unnecessary since there is no emergency.
Not to mention, this will be our first flagship tender for the Strategic Partnership Model. It will set the precedent for all other contracts that the private companies will sign.
It will take a minimum of 8 years for first delivery after the RFP is issued. Not even RFI.
US will have to grant India a waiver under their CAATSA law.There is no other choice for them,they have more to lose
It's a new move from the US. It's called CAATSA.
Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act - Wikipedia
You can assume that India will get a waiver. If the US enforces it on India, then we will be forced to choose Russia. So they are not that dumb.
That sounds like a plan
I'm fine with it. It will allow the induction of more advanced aircraft after 2025. Until then we can aim for another 36 Rafales.
@Picdelamirand-oil, you started this thread. let us now analyse every potential bidder for this RFI and you will find that Rafale out flies every other competitor by 100s of NM. F-16 and Gripen NG are no competition as they just can't meet the need of the ASM role with drop tanks and without D/Ts they can't even hit a target beyond our EEZ. The F-18SH does have some ability but it is again not upto what Rafale can do. Mig-35 modified with Kaveri and having capabilities from Pak-FA will be a serious contendor but what if Russians pitch in with Pak-Fa itself?
In every role which has been specified in the RFI, Rafale retains full capability to fly with 6000 ltrs of external fuel which no other aircraft listed above in this thread has.
Rafale in A2A role- no limitation as it can carry 3x2000l D/Ts with 6xBVRs.
In Strike role - no limitation as it cam carry 3x2000l D/Ts with 2xPGMs and 6xBVRs.
In ASM role - it can carry one ASM on centerline station, 2x2000l D/Ts on inboard pylons, 2x1000l D'Ts on mid pylons and it already carries 6xMICA in this role.
In every role which has been specified in the RFI, Rafale retains full capability to fly with 6000 ltrs of external fuel which no other aircraft listed above in this thread has.
Rafale in A2A role- no limitation as it can carry 3x2000l D/Ts with 6xBVRs.
In Strike role - no limitation as it cam carry 3x2000l D/Ts with 2xPGMs and 6xBVRs.
In ASM role - it can carry one ASM on centerline station, 2x2000l D/Ts on inboard pylons, 2x1000l D'Ts on mid pylons and it already carries 6xMICA in this role.
the best load out for F-16.
In this config, you can remove the 2xPGMs and load 2xBVRs or add a centerline ASM. In this config, F-16 will be no match for Rafale.
In this config, you can remove the 2xPGMs and load 2xBVRs or add a centerline ASM. In this config, F-16 will be no match for Rafale.
I don't know.
All Rafale are EMP hardened. Indian ones as well.
In France two Rafale squads have a primary deterence mission but are able to make all the other missions, and do it.
It's only in case of a hard crisis (with a nuclear or chimical potential opponent) that those plane will be 100% affected to deterence.
Is the Air HQ likely to issue a new RFI for combat jets? If yes, will it be limited to single engine fighter planes? Or will the RFI be non-specific?
CAS: Yes, the IAF is in the process of finalising the details of RFI in coordination with DDP and DRDO. The RFI for procurement of fighter aircraft will be issued shortly. The RFI will not be specific to the number of engines.
Will the new process be as cumbersome and lengthy as the MMRCA contest? How you will make sure the new competition doesn’t get bogged down in technicalities, accusations and counter-accusation, delaying critical acquisition?
CAS: The procurement of fighter aircraft will be as per the provisions of DPP-2016 which focuses on institutionalising, streamlining and simplifying defence procurement procedure. Cutting down permissible time-frames and monitoring probity at various stages of the procurement process are the key functions of the DPP.
CAS: Yes, the IAF is in the process of finalising the details of RFI in coordination with DDP and DRDO. The RFI for procurement of fighter aircraft will be issued shortly. The RFI will not be specific to the number of engines.
Will the new process be as cumbersome and lengthy as the MMRCA contest? How you will make sure the new competition doesn’t get bogged down in technicalities, accusations and counter-accusation, delaying critical acquisition?
CAS: The procurement of fighter aircraft will be as per the provisions of DPP-2016 which focuses on institutionalising, streamlining and simplifying defence procurement procedure. Cutting down permissible time-frames and monitoring probity at various stages of the procurement process are the key functions of the DPP.