Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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If the goal is just to buy a stopgap fighter for the IN til the TEDBF gets going... then does it really matter between the SH and the rafale? Just get whatever is cheaper and will last til (the inevitably delayed) domestic version gets inducted. Both the US and France will be eager/reliable suppliers since they both see more tenders on the horizon. Both platforms are better than the 29k. Is there really that much debate required for it? IN and IAF have different logistics so no point linking the two together.
 
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Ginvincible said:
If the goal is just to buy a stopgap fighter for the IN til the TEDBF gets going... then does it really matter between the SH and the rafale? Just get whatever is cheaper and will last til (the inevitably delayed) domestic version gets inducted. Both the US and France will be eager/reliable suppliers since they both see more tenders on the horizon. Both platforms are better than the 29k. Is there really that much debate required for it? IN and IAF have different logistics so no point linking the two together.
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Originally I didn't even want MRCBF. All I wanted was the Mig-29K upgraded with new avionics and a new uprated engine, alongside another squadron's worth. But IAC-2 came in with a CATOBAR requirement, so that's where these jets will be used once the carrier's ready. TEDBF is going STOBAR.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
So finally who is winning

Since IAF' s order has been reduced , we can buy 57 plus 27 RAFALES
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IAFs order will not happen now. A new tender will come up at end of 2022 with intent to produce 57 jets locally. It will not be signed before 2024.

INs program will likely be signed by 2023 March.

SH and Rafale M both are equals. Depends on the offer made to MoD.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
IAFs order will not happen now. A new tender will come up at end of 2022 with intent to produce 57 jets locally. It will not be signed before 2024.

INs program will likely be signed by 2023 March.

SH and Rafale M both are equals. Depends on the offer made to MoD.
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If we select Rafale only for the IAF , ie 57 planes , then there is no chance of them being even assembled in India

I believe that if there is a firm order for 57 plus 27 , then Dassault will have some incentive to assemble them in India

This 57 plane order is for the time being

If MK 2 and AMCA are delayed
Then we can buy even more at a later date
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
If we select Rafale only for the IAF , ie 57 planes , then there is no chance of them being even assembled in India

I believe that if there is a firm order for 57 plus 27 , then Dassault will have some incentive to assemble them in India

This 57 plane order is for the time being

If MK 2 and AMCA are delayed
Then we can buy even more at a later date
Click to expand...
Numbers of LCA MK2 are not related to MMRCA by any means. It is only related to numbers of Mig29UPG, Mirage 2000I and Jaguar and their out of service dates.

AMCA will be a contemporary top notch aircraft for its time frame so we can expect a bit delay there.

As for combining Navys and IAF requirements, it doesn't fit the timetable actually.

Because if IN is made to wait for IAF tender, that will mean first F18/Rafale coming out in 2028, when TEDBF would be in trials.

The whole backing of MRCBF is that it can be inducted in 2025-27 timeframe.

As for IAF, we should go for additional 36 Rafales off the shelf asap. Because even with UAE orders, Dassault has capability to deliver 36 to India by 2026-28 timeframe. Other than that it's a clusterfcuk.
 
Amarante said:
Nice shots from Goa:
www.scramble.nl

US Navy demonstrates Super Hornet ski-jump in India

US Navy demonstrates Super Hornet ski-jump in India On Friday 20 May 2022, two US Navy F/A-18E Super Hornets arrived at INS Hansa (Goa/Dabolim) to showcase their ski-jump from the ...
www.scramble.nl www.scramble.nl
2 single-seat.
(thx to the original poster)
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The pics are not from Goa - they're from Lajes (Portuguese island), on their way to Goa.

IN is not allowing ground-level photography around the premises of Hansa base, all the pics of Rafale & SH seen from Goa trials are from amateur planespotters outside the base.
 
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randomradio said:
Originally I didn't even want MRCBF. All I wanted was the Mig-29K upgraded with new avionics and a new uprated engine, alongside another squadron's worth. But IAC-2 came in with a CATOBAR requirement, so that's where these jets will be used once the carrier's ready. TEDBF is going STOBAR.
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IAC-2 is the "Vishal" right? By the time (if at all really) that carrier comes into play whatever western carrier fighter is ordered will be outclassed by 5/6th gen carrier fighters and less cost efficient than the loyal wingman style autonomous crafts. The fighters used on IAC-2 will also be will likely be CATOBAR variant of tedbf/amca or another domestic alternative. At most whatever western stopgap fighter is chosen will be used for testing IAC-2 catapults and maybe some initial use to fill numbers/training. The role this fighter will play for IAC-2 really should not be a factor for deciding now.
 
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Ginvincible said:
IAC-2 is the "Vishal" right? By the time (if at all really) that carrier comes into play whatever western carrier fighter is ordered will be outclassed by 5/6th gen carrier fighters and less cost efficient than the loyal wingman style autonomous crafts. The fighters used on IAC-2 will also be will likely be CATOBAR variant of tedbf/amca or another domestic alternative. At most whatever western stopgap fighter is chosen will be used for testing IAC-2 catapults and maybe some initial use to fill numbers/training. The role this fighter will play for IAC-2 really should not be a factor for deciding now.
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I guess the answer is both yes and no. While the SH (or Rafale) will be completely outclassed by mid 2040 or so, it depends on what we actually plan on doing with the jet by that point, which will be 20-25 years old by then as well, at least it's not a stopgap. In case a better jet is necessary, a squadron of USN-NGAD (or FCAS) can also be bought, or an Indian solution can be made available, either replacing the SH (or Rafale) entirely or operate both together. In any case, the size of the fleet will be so small relative to the potential economy of the time that by then a replacement jet can be made available relatively quickly.

I don't think we should bother with the time period beyond 2040, since I doubt even the IAF/IN actually have a clue what they plan to do after this modernisation cycle, ie 2020-2040. All we can do is speculate. For now, I'm cool with whatever the IN decides this year.
 
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Ginvincible said:
If the goal is just to buy a stopgap fighter for the IN til the TEDBF gets going... then does it really matter between the SH and the rafale? Just get whatever is cheaper and will last til (the inevitably delayed) domestic version gets inducted. Both the US and France will be eager/reliable suppliers since they both see more tenders on the horizon. Both platforms are better than the 29k. Is there really that much debate required for it? IN and IAF have different logistics so no point linking the two together.
Click to expand...
I agree with the first part. I still think the Rafale will fit easier into the Indian system. Even though they are normally separated. I am a super hornet fan and think it is better than the Rafale, but I really think the Rafale is more suitable than bringing a totally different platform.
 
Optimist said:
I agree with the first part. I still think the Rafale will fit easier into the Indian system. Even though they are normally separated. I am a super hornet fan and think it is better than the Rafale, but I really think the Rafale is more suitable than bringing a totally different platform.
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Boeing is offering India the more expensive F-15EX instead of the SH B3 because they don't think the cheaper and more likely to win jet will be able to meet the IAF's MRFA technical requirements.
 
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