US propping up pakistan as usual.#USA approves 450 million USD sustainment program for F16 fighter jets of #PAF Pakistan: Pentagon
— News IADN (@NewsIADN) September 8, 2022
This will allow Pakistan access to Spares, overhaul and repair and software updates for its existing fleet. #IADN pic.twitter.com/4r4n7QDC1v
There's a reason why I am saying that hold your horses.
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I have said it many times. Even in the worst case scenario, USA will still sell everything to Pakistan which it may to India, if Pakistan pays for it. And if the relationship improves a bit, then even reduce prices or give CSF or something in that order.
We should therefore be very prudent in what we do and we we don't with the US.
I still stand by my post. And considering just the fly away price and references available on web regarding recent deals concluded world wide, my figures are as accurate as one can get.
Let's see the package Boeing proposes for Navy. Let's see if they actually agree to work together to integrate Indian weapons with the aircraft.
I have nothing against Boeing or Dassault and have called out both fanboys in the past.
But again , you are free to believe what you want and I am free to post what I want.
It's weapon sale,not loan. I am more concerned about Russia delivering s400,SU35 etc to china than us selling existing spare to PAF.
The package price isn't the flyaway. Your figures are wrong, as google will show you. It's not hard to find the flyaway price. Try it.
I actually voted for the Rafale, for the previously given reasons, even though it is more expensive.
I very well know the difference between fly away cost (everything required to make the aircraft fly atleast once) , then modification cost, training/infrastructure costs , ammunition costs, spares supply cost and a maintenance support contract.
And my figures reflect it. I only am talking about the fly away cost and my figures are as accurate as one can get with the least amount of disagreement.
Russia selling something to China will not be exclusively used by China against India. That's not the case with Pakistan.
And we need a weak Pakistan (an extremely weak one) to allow us the space to do something in Tibet.
Every alm given by US to Pakistan, cuts into that space of ours.
Nonsense. Too lazy or stubborn to google the true number. I'll google one of the US aircraft for you. Pick one.
Boeing Awarded $1.5B Contract for 28 Kuwait Super Hornets - USNI News
The government of Kuwait has finalized a $1.5 billion award toBoeing Co. to purchase 28 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets.
news.usni.org
It's a bit messy for official costs, I know you would want it official.
It would be best to use two SAR. The growler and the FA-18ef. There wasn't a SAR for the FA-18ef around 2018
page 19. in the $ value the plane was bought in. TY then year
Page 18, in the $ value the plane was bought in. TY then year
Growler Flyaway in 2012 $66.5 M
FA-18ef Flyaway in 2012 $59.1 M. So $7.4 m less than Growler
Growler Flyaway in 2017 $66.9 M. Less the $7.4M giving a 2017 flyaway for the FA-18ef $59.5.
Then there is the 3.5% FMS fee. So about $61.5 flyaway out the door.
I'm happy to round it out to $65m
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I forgot to include the Kuwait sale price to Boeing, as per the link above. $1.5b divide by 28 or $53M
each
"The Boeing Co., St. Louis, Missouri, is awarded a $1,504,995,240 fixed-price-incentive-firm contract that provides for the production and delivery of 22 F/A-18E and six F/A-18F Super Hornets in support of the government of Kuwait. "
each
"The Boeing Co., St. Louis, Missouri, is awarded a $1,504,995,240 fixed-price-incentive-firm contract that provides for the production and delivery of 22 F/A-18E and six F/A-18F Super Hornets in support of the government of Kuwait. "
Rafale wingspan is 10.81 m with its wingtip missile launchers and missiles, 10.21 with its wingtip missile launchers but without missiles, and 9.6 m without its wingtip missile launchers and missiles.
Obviously you don't have a link or you would have posted it. Still wider than the fa-18 that you mislead the forum about.
I specifically asked you for this for this very reasonBoeing Awarded $1.5B Contract for 28 Kuwait Super Hornets - USNI News
The government of Kuwait has finalized a $1.5 billion award toBoeing Co. to purchase 28 F/A-18E/F Super Hornets.news.usni.org
It's a bit messy for official costs, I know you would want it official.
It would be best to use two SAR. The growler and the FA-18ef. There wasn't a SAR for the FA-18ef around 2018
page 19. in the $ value the plane was bought in. TY then year
Page 18, in the $ value the plane was bought in. TY then year
Growler Flyaway in 2012 $66.5 M
FA-18ef Flyaway in 2012 $59.1 M. So $7.4 m less than Growler
Growler Flyaway in 2017 $66.9 M. Less the $7.4M giving a 2017 flyaway for the FA-18ef $59.5.
Then there is the 3.5% FMS fee. So about $61.5 flyaway out the door.
I'm happy to round it out to $65m
Anyway my reasoning is that this is a deal between US and it's company and I believe that this deal alone doesn't cover everything required to ensure that the aircraft is complete. I believe that several other long lead items from other firms will also have to be contracted.
Let's wait for the commerical offer from Boeing. Either one of us will stand corrected then.
If you want to oppose the Rafale as a contender for this competition, do so on the unavailability of a dual seater for carrier operations.
Because other than that, it seems as far as operational needs are concerned , Rafale might just squeeze in.
We need to understand that MRCBF compatibility with R33 is an add on benefit which can be a selling point. It is not an operational requirement from Navy. Because the home of the 2 squadrons will not be Goa. Both of the squadrons will be raised under ENC.
The flyaway is the aircraft.I specifically asked you for this for this very reason
Anyway my reasoning is that this is a deal between US and it's company and I believe that this deal alone doesn't cover everything required to ensure that the aircraft is complete. I believe that several other long lead items from other firms will also have to be contracted.
Let's wait for the commerical offer from Boeing. Either one of us will stand corrected then.
The IR pods, training, manuals, sims, spare parts, weapons etc aren't included and these vary with the purchaser in what they choose.
Australian FA-18f costed out with everything, at $250 m each. Yet the flyaway was around $65m
I don't oppose the Rafale, I oppose misinformation that it posted. AS i have said at least twice in this thread. It makes more sense to buy Rafale, simply because of the extra costs of running another different platform. They are both 4.5gen and we can debate which is better, but both would be OK. It's not black and white like with the f-35.
why does US keep arming pakistan supporters of taliban who killed US soldiers? Is it so hard to understand.
This is one of the reasons why we should never take whatever US says in its face value.
A stop gap in India is a definitive solution everywhere else.
TEDBF is all but a mature product.
To study and built a fighter is hard. To built a carrier able one is very hard. So... good luck and work hard.
Speaking of this very critical and extremely important capacity that is completely a "make or break" condition for the Indian Navy, did you know that the TEDBF does not have a dual seater configuration planned? This shows how crucial the dual seater thing is.
Then you should have keep away Germany , France, Russi, Sweden , Italy, Turkey, Romania too. All these countries had sold weapons to pak. Russians are even worse, they sold top end equipment to Chinese.
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