Off-Topic Chit-Chat

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)


Opening paragraph excerpted from the article :

"The artillery barrage was so intense that the American commandos dived into foxholes for protection, emerging covered in flying dirt and debris to fire back at a column of tanks advancing under the heavy shelling. It was the opening salvo in a nearly four-hour assault in February by around 500 pro-Syrian government forces — including Russian mercenaries — that threatened to inflame already-simmering tensions between Washington and Moscow."

I've said this before & I'd repeat it here . What would be a dazzling spin master par excellence in the world of politics & / or Mainstream Media has been lost to Strat Front , though what personal profit such endeavours have brought if any , except momentary satisfaction , is another matter altogether.
 
"The artillery barrage was so intense that the — American commandos — dived into foxholes for protection, emerging covered in flying dirt and debris to fire back at a column of tanks advancing under the heavy shelling. It was the opening salvo in a nearly four-hour assault in February by around 500 pro-Syrian government forces including Russian mercenaries that threatened to inflame already-simmering tensions between Washington and Moscow."

Come back when it says — Chinese mercenaries. —
 
Yes . American commandos vs Syrian Govt troops & Russian mercenaries under the "command" of the Syrians giving the Russians plausible deniability not Russian troops as claimed earlier.

Man can lie thru his teeth.

As the saying goes - one can wake up someone who's asleep not someone pretending to be asleep.
 
Russian mercenaries = Plain clothes Russian army

US commandos = provoke by posturing

Russia attack = US retreat without fight

US no retreat = Russia irregulars destroyed, bad plan to fall for...

Trap!!!

Kargil War = Pak mercenaries?

Ignorants will always remain Ignorants.
 
Russian Pvt security operator = Wagner Group ( Russian equivalent of Blackwater )

No state especially a N armed state will ever directly confront with it's troops another N armed state of the status of the US & risk getting it's troops killed or more importantly captured given the huge international diplomatic , political , military & economic ramifications it'd have.

It never happened even at the height of the cold war when such proxy wars were common affairs including in High Stakes cases where national pride was involved like the ones in Vietnam or Afghanistan among other examples & we're expected to believe it's happened in Syria of all places just a few years ago.

Neither did the US level any such allegations nor did any TT interpret it as such nor did any media carry such an analysis.

But Pinnochio & his tall stories would have us believe otherwise. Never ceases to amaze.

If India didn't expand the conflict with Pakistan during the Kargil episode in spite of evidence given the interception of Musharraf's conversation with his generals over the phone , we're expected to believe India will open hostilities with China over exchange of ISR related information & supply of platforms , arms & ammo to Pakistan.

Ditto if the US decides to emulate China's behaviour as described above in case of a Sino Indian conflict where even if China is aware the US is supporting India materially it'd do squat unless the US directly intervenes which we all know isn't going to happen.

Talk about being clever by half , going into circular arguments & tripping over them thereby strengthening my position.

Only Pinnochio could do that as he's done so many times in the past.

🤣
 
www.nytimes.com

How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria (Published 2018)

Interviews and newly obtained documents provide the Pentagon’s first public on-the-ground accounting of one of the bloodiest battles the military has faced in Syria since deploying to fight ISIS.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

The mercenaries loosely coordinate with the Russian military in Syria, although Wagner’s leaders have reportedly received awards in the Kremlin, and its mercenaries are trained at the Russian Defense Ministry’s bases.

If you can get away with it, then you do it. :ROFLMAO:
 
"The mercenaries loosely coordinate with the Russian military in Syria, although Wagner’s leaders have reportedly received awards in the Kremlin, and its mercenaries are trained at the Russian Defense Ministry’s bases."


To begin with it's good to see a tacit admission , however unintended , that this was an engagement between the US & Syrian Govt forces along with Russian backed mercenaries aka employees of the Russian Pvt security contractor Wagner & not the Russian troops as was initially claimed .

All my efforts haven't been in vain though curing pathological cases is a process of 1 step forward , 1 sideways & possibly one backwards. Relapse is commonplace.

Now to get to the meat of the issue :

Poor Pinocchio . I guess I'd have to waste time educating him on the nuances of reporting especially the kind of reporting the NYT does.


Does it back up it's report with sources or follow up stories ? No . Does it report on US government taking Russia to task offering credibile evidence linking Wagner to Russia's security forces ? No .

Does that mean Wagner doesn't have such ties or doesn't employ former Russian armed forces personnel ? Ofc not .

It does employ them - a development every one is aware of . But it's done for it offers plausible deniability to the Russians. Hence officially the Russians aren't blamed . Unofficially the friction points between the US & Russia which caused the engagement in the first place on the ground would have been resolved.

Does that hold true for either India or China in the scenarios previously discussed ? I see Kargil wasn't raised in the follow up post . For good reason too . 😁

Where does that leave India vis a vis China in a Indo Pak war or China vis a vis US in a Sino Indian conflict ?

It's exactly as I described it in #3485.
 
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Only Ignorants can believe that an authoritarian regime has allowed the creation of private forces on its soil like the US has. Otoh, all actual experts believe private contractors in Russia are simply an extension of their MoD.

All Ignorants should read this article in full.
khpg.org

Russian ‘mercenary’ gets state award from Putin for fighting in Donbas

One of 26 tank drivers from the so-called Wagner private military company [PMC] was the proud recipient of a Russian state award ‘For Bravery’ in 2014. It is illegal in Russia to be a mercenary, but that is only one of many reasons for dismissing Moscow’s pretence that it has nothing to do with...
khpg.org
One of 26 tank drivers from the so-called Wagner private military company [PMC] was the proud recipient of a Russian state award ‘For Bravery’ in 2014. It is illegal in Russia to be a mercenary, but that is only one of many reasons for dismissing Moscow’s pretence that it has nothing to do with the Wagner PMC which has been deployed in both Ukraine and Syria.

Which is why Ignorants shouldn't be taken seriously. 'Cause Ignorants will always be Ignorants.

Coming back to the original point, if IN uses CENTRIXS to attack China, it's pretty much American agression on China. The US can't dissociate itself from a Sino-India war after that point. The only alternative is for the US to cut IN off from CENTRIXS before war begins. CENTRIXS is a tool of war, not just a means of intelligence. It's meant to be use by American allies who America expects to jointly collaborate with in a war. So the intention is evident on its own.

The two ways for America to assist is when the situation becomes FUBAR for India (or otherwise). For example, we lost 10-15 of our SHs in the very first day. Logically, we can no longer wage war after that point. Especially so with Rafales, with only 18 of them being usable, with replacements being limited or unlikely. But the USN can make both jets and pilots available with Indian markings. They can fly off Vikrant and continue to fight. Once the war is over, the IN will pass of the excess jets as emergency transfers (which will happen without things going FUBAR anyway, another massive benefit of going for SH). The other way is for the US to operate from their own operational areas, but with Indian markings and with weapons common to both countries, while pretending to be Indian by flying in IN air corridors. In both cases, the US will get away with attacking China without China escalating the situation to the point where they actively drag the US into the conflict and make it worse for them.

What's funny is, what I said above has actually been done in wars. So it's not surprising that Ignorants has no idea.
 
Looks like post 8 pm hubris takes over Pinnochio ( when doesn't it ) & comprehension fails . More true of 2022 than before.

I had clearly mentioned in # 3487 that Wagner has ties to the Russian establishment but the fact is that since they're modelled after Blackwater as a Pvt security operator which in this case is employed by the Syrian government , they give the Russian establishment plausible deniability.


Lets begin at the beginning & educate Pinnochio here on terms of common usage .
Definition of Plausible Deniability :

Plausible deniability - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

_Anonymous_ said:
Does that mean Wagner doesn't have such ties or doesn't employ former Russian armed forces personnel ? Ofc not .

It does employ them - a development every one is aware of . But it's done for it offers plausible deniability to the Russians. Hence officially the Russians aren't blamed . Unofficially the friction points between the US & Russia which caused the engagement in the first place on the ground would have been resolved.
Click to expand...


Just as Blackwater gives plausible deniability to the US among other advantages it confers. But hubris post 8 pm + Pinnochio + 2022 is another level altogether.


I have stated before & I repeat that US support to India in the eventuality of a Sino Indian war would be everything short of direct participation of which ISR would form a vital component call it CENTRIXS or any other acronym & China wouldn't be able to do a thing but grin & bear it even if they're in the know .

Just as India wouldn't be able to do anything in the event of an Indo Pak conflict where short of joining the war , all co operation would be extended to Pakistan by China.

The rest is fictional story telling which is essentially what Pinnochio excels in & what he's been indulging in on forums since years. A dash of realism mixed with flights of fancy.

He's the poor man's John le Carre. Plotting hopelessly optimistic scenarios which read more like B grade thrillers , uni dimensional & poorly sketched characters . All this in spite of years of spinning yarns out here & elsewhere. You'd Essentially think he'd have honed his storytelling skills but Alas !

I'd recommend reading of Shaunak Agarkhedkar on BRF or twitter or perhaps his blog post on how to take reality & construct fiction around such real life incidents in a way which isn't just realistic but well plotted , well written with well rounded characters & the right amount of suspense created which makes his work a page turner & call it fiction based on real life incidents instead of trying to pass it on as real life incidents.

There's a whole wide audience willing to pay good bucks to be entertained instead of wasting whatever little talent one has regaling a dozen or so posters here with yarns. But I guess kundali mein laxmi nahin hain sirf mangal hain jo khurafat karwata hain. 🤣
 
Yeesh, didn't bother reading the majority of that. All I understood is Ignorants proving himself to be ignorant.

Lol at plausible deniability. So what others can do, the US can't do. Even though what I stated has continuously been done throughout history for millenia, including after WW2.
 
🤣

All this effort would've yielded something more tangible were it employed in something productive. But that's been the problem here . When one cannot differentiate between reality & alternate realities what's essentially speculation & ought to qualified as such gets passed off as realistic .

When called out instead of clarifying that this may be how events would unfold , hence qualified as speculation , comes insistence & belligerence that this is the reality I see & events would pan out in this way & none other .

The rest is merely an exercise in ego massaging.

I would sincerely recommend professional help.

Now on topic , I guess confronting China is the same as waging war on Syria or Afghanistan or even Iraq with or without Blackwater & other subterfuge.
 
Yes, yes, The SU can do it, the Chinese can do it. But when it comes to the US, they can't, even after having done already it before.

I have no clue why Ignorants butt into topics they have no clue about.
 
I see no denial of my statement recommending professional help.

Good . Acceptance that there's a problem is 50% of the solution. The remaining lies with whom one seeks professional help from , line of treatment a belief it would help & a rigid adherence to medical protocol .

All the best. Hope 2022 brings some real changes.
 
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