Entire Russian defense market gonna collapse, it will be replaced either with NATO weaponry or Chinese one. Only stupids will go behind Russians after seeing its pathetic perfomance in Ukranian soil, yeah we are a stupid nation and we will keep buying Russian stuffs, we cannot rule out mig35 in mmrca2 too.
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Oh is that right? Yeah I'm pretty sure Russian flanker pilots are okay having inferior tech... Why don't you just sign up and become a paid spokesman for the Kremlin? At least get paid for spouting BS.
We definitely have given them more business in arms than the Chinese, but still they have been more tolerant of Chinese actually knowing the downsides.
If they were as much flexible as they are with China, things would have gone a lot differently.
But alas change for better I suppose. Anyways I don't really see a new order going to Russia. Only spares and support.
Yeah, they only have one prototype with the AESA. The issue is it's unclear as of today what the Mig-35's future will be like in Russia. We obviously don't care about it.
It's not inferior tech. Russia's PESA is basically a hybrid system. Meaning it functions like an AESA when it's performing one task. Something like the Irbis-E with two transmitters can perform 2 tasks independently, no different from an AESA. Basically, if an American AESA goes up against the Irbis-E in an air to air battle, it won't be any different from a fight between two AESA radars. The Russians will get multifunctional features with the Su-57 anyway, so they have no need to upgrade their older jets today. The MKI's Bars PESA also functions as an AESA when it's performing one task.
Otoh, the Russians are aiming to introduce more advanced radars than today's AESA radars. So that technology can form part of the MLUs in the future.
The Chinese trade relations with Russia is massive. And the Russians are still extremely unflexible with China. Rather Russia is using India as a counterweight to China. What's put us in a disadvantage is during the 90s and 2000s, we ended up buying mostly Russian, instead of balancing it out. So, when it came to submarines, we successfully balanced things out, to the point where we are now capable of making our own nuke subs. But when it came to the IAF and IA, it became problematic due to the Russian monopoly, especially the IA.
The Russians became somewhat flexible when we started talking about FICV, which is when they offered the BMP-3 with full ToT.
Today we may have a very significant advantage.
The opposite. This is when we gotta milk them for everything they got. Like, wouldn't you want the IA to upgrade the T-90's gun to the latest version and operate the more advanced Svinets APFSDS, and have production access to both?
The war and sanctions will give us the opportunity to ask for a class of technology that nobody will provide no matter how much money is thrown at them-- Materials technology. The Russians are the kings when it comes to this (Avangard and Zircon are good examples), and developing our own takes decades. Then there's rocket fuel, the West and Russians use far more advanced concoctions. We can even ask for full ToT of Brahmos-2's scramjet engines.
As their only realistic customer for the next 10 years, we gotta milk them. Like 100% ToT for the S-400 and its missiles in a future order. 100% ToT for the 117S engine. Perhaps even know-how and know-why transfers of next gen nuclear propulsion. And so on. Even getting our hands on some of it can save us decades of R&D time. For example, BARC says they need 20 years to design, build and test a reactor meant for surface ships. Next gen designs are sitting unused in the dusty corner of some Russian ministry building.
The goal is indeed to become independent from their spares and support for existing technologies that we operate today, but we need to use our cash muscle to buy some of their very high end exotic technologies in the process.
I hope we improve our relationship with Germany and get their gun. For tungsten based penetrators, I think their guns can take on the most chamber pressure. Else we will need to move on to DU penetrators.
Anyways compared to Mango (500mm RHA at 2000 meter) we are now doing a initial batch production of local alternative with 575 mm RHA.
Although it's not a very big improvement , but I am satisfied with it for the moment. Our ATGM and APFSDS will both be generation ahead of what Pakistan can bring.
It would be good to get ahead on a lot of things but I still doubt their flexibility.
It's not my opinion, I have only mentioned what Ashish kumar Ghosh (Project Director AMCA) and Dr. Girish Deodhare (DG ADA) have told to The week. I think they also know about these things. Thoda bahut to janate hi honge?kyon bhai ji?
Never gonna happen with the Germans. Anyway we can develop our own guns, that's not the issue. It's about supporting and developing the T-90 fleet, which will be in use beyond 2060. Or, better yet, replace the T-90's current gun with our own, although I doubt that's planned.
What the Russians and the West did back in the 80s.
It's about not missing the bus.
The biggest tech transfer in history happened between the UK and the US in 1942, when the Brits transferred everything they had in exchange for American production. The next one came out of a defeated Germany and all the main allies benefitted from that.
Then came the end of the Cold War. Although we got some stuff, we could have gotten even more had it not been for our financial situation and American pressure. Otoh, the US and China benefitted a lot.
Now, is the fourth opportunity and India is at the forefront of getting tech from Russia. We need to extract as much as possible. Simply put, with just APFSDS tech, we are 30-40 years behind the Russians. It gets worse when it comes to more exotic tech like hypersonics, where even the Americans and Chinese are struggling.
This will be our first and only opportunity to close a more than 30-year gap we have with the West and Russia when it comes to materials.
Of course, all this cannot be done without sufficient carrots paving the road. And it can be done in a step by step process. Like, first bring spares production into India in order to eliminate Russian imports. Then bring in tech that was denied for existing systems, like some hot parts for the AL-31FP and Brahmos 1 engine, Smerch rockets etc. Then go for slightly more modern tech, like Brahmos M, new T-90 gun and shell, S-400 missiles and 117S engine, in case we are gonna re-engine the MKI. Later, more modern tech like the Brahmos 2 engine, SSN tech, BM tech. And so on.
It's a mix of their opinions and the opinions of the journo.
The only places where the Su-57 was mentioned--
How India finalised the design for its indigenous stealth fighter jet
Scientists behind the design explains how the Tejas experience helped
The above shouldn't be attributed to Ghosh. It's just the writer rambling on about irrelevant stuff.
Then--
Russia refused to share computer source codes that would enable India to do that.
Literally pulled out of the writer's backside, because, as I said before, the computer itself will be Indian. Another statement that shouldn't be attributed to Ghosh.
In Deodhare's interview about Su-57, he states that the Russians were not willing to provide ToT. Which is true. And I have mentioned that.
Stealth fighter will match IAF's needs: ADA DG Girish Deodhare
'The AMCA was designed to take care of upgrades for next 30 years'
So all the three points you mentioned are incorrectly being attributed to Ghosh and Deodhare.
Somehow we should get our hands on their material engineering research. That alone is enough to push our RMA by decades.
Yep. We are currently in the Indo-Western cycle of procurement. It should switch over to Indo-Russian after 2027 or 2030, once we start making moves to acquire exotic tech (Brahmos 2, Su-57 etc), which the West won't provide. So that gives us enough time to develop our electronics industry as leverage and provide the Russians an alternative to China.
It's not our job to be nice to the Germans. The Germans have historically have a biased and subtle hate for us. Maybe racial for all we know. But they rather arm Pakistanis than sell us weapons. If anything we should align with the French and make the German as irrelevant as possible. The Germans can't be trusted...